I don't understand church or christians, I just want to give up already

[quintessentialramble]

I feel like giving up...I wish for reconciliation with all those people from my past so much...I don't understand how anyone can look at the Bible and say it doesn't say to reconcile. Anyways, I have so many hurts, but this last one just broke me and I don't know if I'll ever recover. My first experience was my only Christian friend invited me to church and that same week said there was nothing in the Bible that said we had to be friends, and completely cut me off...that was my first week of church. Needless to say, I was very confused...I liked what I read in the Bible...but nothing of what I saw in the church. So some years later I finally gave another church a try. A former coworker approached me and told me to leave and find somewhere else...no explanation given. I had never had issues with this person prior. Fast forward to a third church...I was in a relationship with a girl and the relationship did not work out...however after the relationship she told the pastor she would leave if I kept going...the pastor said he agreed with me but said I should leave until she moved away the following year and then I could return. I did not. Fast forward to now an AG church....and for many years, this one seemed fine. After much pushing and me being reluctant, the youth pastor convinced me to help him with youth group....it was because he wanted to step down as he was secretly in a relationship with one of the youth. I was serving, I became a deacon...this church seemed great, and virtually nobody had any issues with me, until one day. After several years, in what seemed completely out of the blue, the pastor's daughters avoided me, and his son approached me and said I was "barely tolerable." This insult spurred mental health problems, ruminating, overthinking, delusions, hallucinations, and depression for several months. The pastor said there was no animosity, they care about me, and that it's hard to love my neighbor when I don't love myself, and he was working on boundaries, and my actions have consequences, and that he wants to give me the space I need to move forward...following this one of his daughters blocked me on facebook and his other family members unfollowed my instagram...they still confuse me from time to time as they will like my facebook posts occasionally or write happy birthday...but they haven't apologized for anything they've said and don't seem to think anything is wrong. I've spoken to the other deacons and the other pastor. They got a completely one-sided story from the pastor, and even without my side told him I didn't do anything wrong; and when I told them my side, one deacon even said he was in the wrong, while the others took the approach they need time to heal...but wasn't I the one who was insulted here? Christians have been the most hateful and most painful people I've ever had to deal with, even more than my family; and the last story has had the most devastating effect on my faith and well-being, more so than anything in my life.

 

[Loyce KG]

I feel like giving up...I wish for reconciliation with all those people from my past so much...I don't understand how anyone can look at the Bible and say it doesn't say to reconcile. Anyways, I have so many hurts, but this last one just broke me and I don't know if I'll ever recover. My first experience was my only Christian friend invited me to church and that same week said there was nothing in the Bible that said we had to be friends, and completely cut me off...that was my first week of church. Needless to say, I was very confused...I liked what I read in the Bible...but nothing of what I saw in the church. So some years later I finally gave another church a try. A former coworker approached me and told me to leave and find somewhere else...no explanation given. I had never had issues with this person prior. Fast forward to a third church...I was in a relationship with a girl and the relationship did not work out...however after the relationship she told the pastor she would leave if I kept going...the pastor said he agreed with me but said I should leave until she moved away the following year and then I could return. I did not. Fast forward to now an AG church....and for many years, this one seemed fine. After much pushing and me being reluctant, the youth pastor convinced me to help him with youth group....it was because he wanted to step down as he was secretly in a relationship with one of the youth. I was serving, I became a deacon...this church seemed great, and virtually nobody had any issues with me, until one day. After several years, in what seemed completely out of the blue, the pastor's daughters avoided me, and his son approached me and said I was "barely tolerable." This insult spurred mental health problems, ruminating, overthinking, delusions, hallucinations, and depression for several months. The pastor said there was no animosity, they care about me, and that it's hard to love my neighbor when I don't love myself, and he was working on boundaries, and my actions have consequences, and that he wants to give me the space I need to move forward...following this one of his daughters blocked me on facebook and his other family members unfollowed my instagram...they still confuse me from time to time as they will like my facebook posts occasionally or write happy birthday...but they haven't apologized for anything they've said and don't seem to think anything is wrong. I've spoken to the other deacons and the other pastor. They got a completely one-sided story from the pastor, and even without my side told him I didn't do anything wrong; and when I told them my side, one deacon even said he was in the wrong, while the others took the approach they need time to heal...but wasn't I the one who was insulted here? Christians have been the most hateful and most painful people I've ever had to deal with, even more than my family; and the last story has had the most devastating effect on my faith and well-being, more so than anything in my life.

Am just wondering how you ended up becoming a deacon with all the stuff that's going on. Perhaps, you should take a moment of self-reflection and see where your heart is. Christians are not perfect people and as a deacon, you ought to have grown to discern this. Am not judging you but concerned.You are the shepherd in that church and some sheep may go astray or rebel against you. However, we learn from the Good shepherd(our Lord and master) who loves all His sheep. Pray for your congregation esp the youth, love them, forgive easily and be an example. The darts will still be shot at you but you keep going. You are the church, shine your light and be the salt.

 

[quintessentialramble]

Am just wondering how you ended becoming a deacon with all the stuff that's going on. Perhaps, you should take a moment of self-reflection and see where your heart is. Christians are not perfect people and as a deacon, you ought to have grown to discern this. Am not judging you but concerned. You are the shepherd in that church and some sheep may go astray or rebel against you. However, we learn from the Good shepherd(our Lord and master) who loves all His sheep. Pray for your congregation esp the youth, love them, forgive easily and be an example. The darts will still be shot at you but you keep going. You are the church, shine your light and be the salt.

They basically vote deacons in. I have a hard time saying no, so for the first couple years I just accepted it, however the last year I basically had the same thought as you so stepped down. And I get what you're saying about people not being perfect, but shouldn't that expectation also be held of the pastor to view men as imperfect and show grace? Just a thought.

 

[mukk_in]

Quite true. Forgiveness and acceptance goes both ways. That's exactly why I don't go to any "Church" anymore but seek smaller fellowships. Maybe, you should start your own Church.

 

[quintessentialramble]

Quite true. Forgiveness and acceptance goes both ways. Maybe, you should start your own Church.

We dont need more churches, we need people to more christlike in their love and forgiveness. Instead of changing buildings, why dont we change ourselves and rach other through loving correction, teaching, rebuking, and repentance, just as the Bible instructed?

 

[mukk_in]

We dont need more churches, we need people to more christlike in their love and forgiveness. Instead of changing buildings, why dont we change ourselves and rach other through loving correction, teaching, rebuking, and repentance, just as the Bible instructed?

I doubt that's going to happen with the people you just mentioned. But, as another poster pointed out, if you can adapt to the existing church that would be ideal. So, go ahead and change yourselves and them. Else, starting your own church may be the only viable option. Who are we to decide if more Churches are not needed? It's for God to decide that. Besides, there are many countries where there are hardly any churches.

 

[quintessentialramble]

I doubt that's going to happen with the people you just mentioned. But, as another poster pointed out, if you can adapt to the existing church that would be ideal. So, go ahead and change yourselves and them. Else, starting your own church may be the only viable option. Who are we to decide if more Churches are not needed? It's for God to decide that. Besides, there are many countries where there are hardly any churches.

Oh well I was in context of the U.S. I just think that we have so many churches here that it could actually be doing more bad than good, as more churches can be an opportunity for more gospel sharing, but can also be more false doctrine and even possibly lead people astray and even to hell, depending. But keep in mind the goal of Jesus wasnt to plant churches, it was to spread the Gospel, and the church is the people, not a building. The original believers usually did not meet in a fancy building. I might actually like Christianity better if I met a group that worshipped in a cave or jungle or something.

 

[Tempura]

Oh wow. I was going to say "I can't believe that", but unfortunately I can believe it.

What is wrong with us. These don't even sound like churches, or at least not what they should be, but some petty cliques instead. What you said could easily be something from a movie where high school teens bully someone. Granted, I only heard your side, but I'll take your story as it is.

Luckily, our church doesn't have to be a physical building with timetables, it can also be other believers in any way shape and form. I've found some people here who give me what I need from fellowship. Edifying, comforting, friendly, honest, and truly spiritual. There in my little corner in these forums.

We should be really careful in how we treat other people and other brothers/sisters in Christ. Because we should think of them as if they were Christ, and treat them as if we were Christ to them. If there is no love in our hearts, we're lost. We're not supposed to push people away but bring them together and help them in their walk of faith.

Luckily, we can count on God. We don't have to count on people. People will fail, including ourselves. They might drive you out of a church, but they can't drive you out of the body of Christ.

Said a prayer for you.

 

[Loyce KG]

You don't go and open your own church just because you're current congregation is hard to deal with. It's just like how you go look for another partner when you're marriage is rocky. You commit to it, work on yourself and let God change the rest. No one is perfect and what we are getting here is a one-sided story or point-of-view. We all go to churches where people are hard but we don't leave,we stay and grow to love them. This is part of endurance which is required of every christian. You are a pastor in the church;are you sure this is your calling? Is this church where you're heart is or not?
Are there elders in that church and can you engage them with the matter?
Do you have a peer support group for fellow pastors or prayer partners to stand with you?
Being a pastor is one of the hardest jobs because you are expected to carry everyone's load without consideration for you and it can get burdensome.

Speak to an elder first,pray to God and search your heart if this what you want to continue doing.
Shalom

 

[quintessentialramble]

You don't go and open your own crutch just because you're current congregation is hard to deal with. It's just like how you go look for another partner when you're marriage is rocky. You commit to it, work on yourself and let God change the rest. No one is perfect and what we are getting here is a one-sided story or point-of-view. We all go to churches where people are hard but we don't leave,we stay and grow to love them. This is part of endurance which is required of every christian. You are a pastor in the church;are you sure this is your calling? Is this church where you're heart is or not?
Are there elders in that church and can you engage them with the matter?
Do you have a peer support group for fellow pastors or prayer partners to stand with you?
Being a pastor is one of the hardest jobs because you are expected to carry everyone's load without consideration for you and it can get burdensome.

Speak to an elder first,pray to God and search your heart if this what you want to continue doing.
Shalom

Fyi I was not a pastor nor am I currently one. Dont know where you got that from. This was in regards to what I felt was my pastors family mistreating me. Also, I did speak to church leadership, and they were all I agreement I did nothing wrong, while none of them knew about the insult. The pastor took it to them before discussing with me.

 

[Dave L]

I feel like giving up...I wish for reconciliation with all those people from my past so much...I don't understand how anyone can look at the Bible and say it doesn't say to reconcile. Anyways, I have so many hurts, but this last one just broke me and I don't know if I'll ever recover. My first experience was my only Christian friend invited me to church and that same week said there was nothing in the Bible that said we had to be friends, and completely cut me off...that was my first week of church. Needless to say, I was very confused...I liked what I read in the Bible...but nothing of what I saw in the church. So some years later I finally gave another church a try. A former coworker approached me and told me to leave and find somewhere else...no explanation given. I had never had issues with this person prior. Fast forward to a third church...I was in a relationship with a girl and the relationship did not work out...however after the relationship she told the pastor she would leave if I kept going...the pastor said he agreed with me but said I should leave until she moved away the following year and then I could return. I did not. Fast forward to now an AG church....and for many years, this one seemed fine. After much pushing and me being reluctant, the youth pastor convinced me to help him with youth group....it was because he wanted to step down as he was secretly in a relationship with one of the youth. I was serving, I became a deacon...this church seemed great, and virtually nobody had any issues with me, until one day. After several years, in what seemed completely out of the blue, the pastor's daughters avoided me, and his son approached me and said I was "barely tolerable." This insult spurred mental health problems, ruminating, overthinking, delusions, hallucinations, and depression for several months. The pastor said there was no animosity, they care about me, and that it's hard to love my neighbor when I don't love myself, and he was working on boundaries, and my actions have consequences, and that he wants to give me the space I need to move forward...following this one of his daughters blocked me on facebook and his other family members unfollowed my instagram...they still confuse me from time to time as they will like my facebook posts occasionally or write happy birthday...but they haven't apologized for anything they've said and don't seem to think anything is wrong. I've spoken to the other deacons and the other pastor. They got a completely one-sided story from the pastor, and even without my side told him I didn't do anything wrong; and when I told them my side, one deacon even said he was in the wrong, while the others took the approach they need time to heal...but wasn't I the one who was insulted here? Christians have been the most hateful and most painful people I've ever had to deal with, even more than my family; and the last story has had the most devastating effect on my faith and well-being, more so than anything in my life.

You are in bondage to the quest for approval by others. Stop coveting people's approval. If you see yourself through their skewed vision, you will begin to think you are that way. What you need to do is see yourself in God's eyes. If you know your heart is right in all you think, say, or do, you can walk confidently among people like that and end up having pity on them instead of ill will.

 

[quintessentialramble]

You are in bondage to the quest for approval by others. Stop coveting people's approval. If you see yourself through their skewed vision, you will begin to think you are that way. What you need to do is see yourself in God's eyes. If you know your heart is right in all you think, say, or do, you can walk confidently among people like that and end up having pity on them instead of ill will.

I dont think anyone can 100% know they know everything 100% correctly, or else they would be God. This is actually the precise problem I think they have. I think he thinks he knows it perfectly and refuses to change even when he is confronted as wrong.

 

[Dave G.]

All those churches who asked you to leave must have given a reason. So I think we are missing a piece of this story.

I'll pray for you and your situation.

 

[quintessentialramble]

All those churches who asked you to leave must have given a reason. So I think we are missing a piece of this story.

I'll pray for you and your situation.

Only one of the churches asked me to leave the congregation...and that was because the pastor was trying to accommodate to the girls wishes..as I mentioned in that one he said he agreed with me but didnt know what to do.

 

[miamited]

Hi Q,

I feel like giving up...I wish for reconciliation with all those people from my past so much...I don't understand how anyone can look at the Bible and say it doesn't say to reconcile.

Finding a fellowship can be tough for some. I share some of your struggle, but I do so enjoy the worship time. Sadly, in 2019 we likely aren't as close knit and willing to really 'share' in one another's burdens as the very early beginnings of the fellowships of our Lord's 'church'. I think that we may also, as seems to be the way the Scriptures describe the advance of mankind, have more and more worldliness and wickedness creeping into the fellowships which is also going to make true worship and fellowship for a God seeking individual more difficult.

My encouragement though would be to humble yourself and work to put away the pettiness of others and work on your own relationship with the Lord. In the fellowship I attended before my current one, the issue of the creation came up in a message and I leaned over to my son and made a comment about he and I knowing that it was only about 6,000 years old. I'm positive that no one except one or two directly in front or behind us could have possibly heard my comment. You know how it is when you're listening to a message and someone behind you leans over to their spouse and says, "Did you turn the coffee pot off?" However, the seats directly in front of us was the pastor's wife and family. Now, this was just a 2 second comment made in a right next to your ear whisper voice. All I said was, "But we know it's only been about 6,000 years." That's it.

Two days later I received a message from the pastor's secretary to stop by and see him in the office at a certain time. I really had no idea what he wanted to see me about, but I had done some things within the fellowship and assumed it was something to do with some program they wanted to start or something. I got to the meeting and there was one of the deacons sitting in with the pastor when I knocked on his office door and I was asked to sit and was then pretty thoroughly reprimanded and rebuked for my whispered comment in my son's ear. I was frankly so taken aback that I really didn't know what to say. I knew for a fact that he didn't hear my comment, but that it must have been reported to him that I had made it. The meeting ended with him making a fairly clear demand of me that such activity was not to be repeated and would not be tolerated. He asked if I would abide by his request and I basically responded that he would never have to worry about me making a comment in his fellowship again.

Another fellowship I visited when we moved to SC was one of those 'black out' electric band worship centers that have become more and more popular these days. I do sing fairly loud and proud with hands held high and so forth and figured I would be just right comfortable in that fellowship. I hadn't been home for two hours after the service, and I had filled out a guest card, and some guy calls me and says he's some office holder in the fellowship and said they were glad to have me, but my singing was distracting to others. Now, get the picture. I'm in a huge blacked out auditorium with theater style seating with electric guitars and a full drum set pounding away to worship music and someone can sing too loud under those circumstances? I mean, I could understand if I was in some fellowship with nothing but a piano and a small congregation mumbling through Amazing Grace. When I told my wife about the call, she was just as baffled as I that a representative of a fellowship would call a visitor and make such a comment without even knowing whether I'd ever be back or not. We both thought that if my singing was really such a problem that surely they'd have waited until my third visit to tell me I was possibly bothering others. I've sung in choirs pretty much all my life and I've always enjoyed praising God through music and been right vociferous at it, but never rebuked in such a manner as just a member out in the congregation singing.

Anyway, that's a bit of my story and I hope you'll take heart that sometimes fellowships can be 'difficult', but we're not really there to make the congregation particularly happy when we're singing praises to our God, but to serve and worship and praise the Creator of all things who loves us and has given His Son for our lives that we might have eternal life with Him. That's who I'm singing to when I sing my praises and I hope that He hears me. I will declare my love for my God.

God bless,
In Christ, ted

 

[Dave L]

I dont think anyone can 100% know they know everything 100% correctly, or else they would be God. This is actually the precise problem I think they have. I think he thinks he knows it perfectly and refuses to change even when he is confronted as wrong.

I had a similar problem and removed myself from the group until I could figure out what was going on. Then I found a permanent solution in scripture by making sure I was in line with Christ in all relationships with others. It is from this position you can see the truth about them and know how much to accept or reject coming from them.

 

[A Realist]

Leave the congregation. You don't have to leave your faith.

Oh, and get rid of your Facebook and Instagram accounts.

 

[Bobber]

However, the seats directly in front of us was the pastor's wife and family. Now, this was just a 2 second comment made in a right next to your ear whisper voice. All I said was, "But we know it's only been about 6,000 years." That's it.

Two days later I received a message from the pastor's secretary to stop by and see him in the office at a certain time. I really had no idea what he wanted to see me about, but I had done some things within the fellowship and assumed it was something to do with some program they wanted to start or something. I got to the meeting and there was one of the deacons sitting in with the pastor when I knocked on his office door and I was asked to sit and was then pretty thoroughly reprimanded and rebuked for my whispered comment in my son's ear. I was frankly so taken aback that I really didn't know what to say. I knew for a fact that he didn't hear my comment, but that it must have been reported to him that I had made it. The meeting ended with him making a fairly clear demand of me that such activity was not to be repeated and would not be tolerated. He asked if I would abide by his request and I basically responded that he would never have to worry about me making a comment in his fellowship again.

It's too bad you didn't have a feel what it was about. If you did or could have I would have maybe said, "No I'm not coming down to the office if he'd like to talk to me on the phone about what it is that will be fine or 2) come and pay me a visit that'd be fine too.

Yes I know you want to be honorable so do I in a sense but it's amazing how many times people will line up something which totally accommodates them and not you. You come down to my office....you spend your money on gas to get here, you this or you that! Do Christians sometimes forget the greatest is the servant of all? I'm thinking the proper request might have been,

"Hello Miamited! Look I'd like to get together with you to have a chat about something. We could meet somewhere, or I could come to see you or if you'd like to come here, doesn't matter to me either way."

But no what did you get....a call from a secretary telling you to report to place A. The sad thing is it probably never even dawns on clergy like this that they're asking people to serve their agenda and do what is only accommodating to them. I did do this once not to someone from the clergy but another let's call them a professional in a business who asked me to come to his office to have a talk.

I said NO. How about you come to my place...which he did. My point is people should stop being so self-accommodating. If that professional would have told me he'd like to get together I might have offered Ok I'll pop over to your office. Just don't like it where people line you up the way they want. To me it speaks of their character. Jesus said the greatest is the servant.

 

[royal priest]

Two important issues here. One is that we have to realize that there are problems of varying degrees in every church. Second is that God expects us to do what we can to love our brethren when facing such problems. The Bible is a handbook for dealing with sin; both our own and other's.

Colossians 3:12-15
Therefore, as God’s chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. Bear with each other and forgive one another if any of you has a grievance against someone. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. And over all these virtues put on love, which binds them all together in perfect unity.
Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, since as members of one body you were called to peace. And be thankful.

 

[Loyce KG]

Fyi I was not a pastor nor am I currently one. Dont know where you got that from. This was in regards to what I felt was my pastors family mistreating me. Also, I did speak to church leadership, and they were all I agreement I did nothing wrong, while none of them knew about the insult. The pastor took it to them before discussing with me.

Am sorry, was responding to the other post about opening another church. Apologies for misreading the part about you being a pastor. I empathise with you and pray God fills you with peace and calmness.
Shalom