How to walk in the Spirit.

[fhansen]

This "Law" you are not understanding.... is not the OT or Commandment keeping, but its the "righteousness of God in Christ"
Its the Law of GRACE, which is "Justification by faith".

Ok, so far, so good. And grace wins more than forgiveness of sin, but also the ongoing power of the Spirit to sin no more.

Remember i told you about Philippians 3, where Paul said he is "perfect in the Law"?
And then said that this is "DUNG" with regards to being accepted by God? ( Being Saved)
Did you forget already?

No, in fact I brought up Phil 3 myself. Paul said that his “righteousness”, that came as one under the law, was perfect, and yet dung, as a Pharisee. This is because it was really no righteousness at all. All true righteousness comes from God.
“...not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ--the righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith.”

And this is real righteousness, but righteousness obtained from God as we turn to Him, righteousness that we can have without needing to even hear the law, even though the law testifies to it.
"And so he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit." Rom 8:3-4

See, the law does not declare you righteous. It declares you to be a SINNER.
This is why "Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the Law".

Now I’m a bit disappointed. Yes, the law is a curse because, even though it’s right, holy, spiritual, and good as Paul tells us in Rom 7, it cannot accomplish righteousness in us, it cannot justify us, IOW. So it only stands as a testimony to our own unrighteousness. We're the problem, not the law. So Rom 2:13 doesn’t say that the law declares us as righteous, but rather that our obedience of the law declares us as righteous, even if we never HEAR the law. This is echoed in 1 John 3:7-8.
“Little children, let no one deceive you: The one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as Christ is righteous. The one who practices sin is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the very start. This is why the Son of God was revealed, to destroy the works of the devil.”

 

[ozso]

That’s not walking in the Spirit at all. Ephesians 4 Paul specifically discusses walking in the Spirit. Walking in the Spirit is NOT SIMPLY GOING THRU LIFE THINKING YOUR SAVED NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO. You do not understand what becoming a new creation is at all. Do you think a person has become a new creation simply by thinking that they are saved and yet having no change in their way of life? I know people like this who go to strip clubs and get drunk and high on drugs and have sex with prostitutes and they mock Jesus’ words and twist them to their advantage by saying “it’s ok Jesus paid for my sins so it doesn’t matter how much I sin, Jesus will forgive me”. There is no change in people like this, the Spirit of God DOES NOT reside in them. They aren’t a new creation at all, they are simply the same old sinful person they’ve always been using Jesus’ sacrifice as an excuse to continue serving their father satan. Do you really think that the person who was killing Christians was ABIDING IN CHRIST? In order to receive salvation we must repent of our sin. Read Revelation 2 and 3. Jesus says over and over to the 7 churches in Asia Minor “I know your deeds, REPENT”!

Likewise there are people who are very religious and act righteous and pious but aren't saved. Isn't it really a matter of how well God knows a person regardless of how they behave?

Personally I've had periods of complacency where I distanced myself from God. Let things grow cold on my end. Yet I never went to strip clubs, even though I lived within walking distance of some in the many years I lived in Las Vegas. The Vegas phone book had a whole section for "escort" services and there were even brothels in the next county. I've never done drugs either. Although I had gotten drunk at home by myself on a few occasions. And I was of the belief that Jesus paid for my sins and His blood was all that saved me, but I believe the Spirit of God residing in me kept me away from much sinning I could have done while living in Sin City. I was saved at a young age, so I don't have an unsaved version of myself to look back on. But I think it's likely that if hadn't had the Spirit of God in me, I would have been a much different worse person. I believe my salvation then was based on God knowing me, rather than the externals of my good behavior vs my bad behavior. Then I had a quickening and became very well behaved. And was dismayed at some of my past behavior and thought to myself, "how could I be a Christian and act like that?". But I didn't think along the lines of "how could I be saved and act like that?". I somehow doubt God revoked my salvation and made me unborn again, when He knew that I would come around and start behaving the way I'm supposed to.

Don't you think loss of heavenly rewards is a big price to pay for earthly bad behavior. Is hell always the only outcome for bad Christians?

 

[fhansen]

Likewise there are people who are very religious and act righteous and pious but aren't saved. Isn't it really a matter of how well God knows a person regardless of how they behave?

God judges by the heart, which he knows far better than anyone else, including ourselves. But our behavior can be a good indicator of where our hearts are: 'by their fruits you shall know them', etc. It's not a perfect science, however, because people can be clean on the outside while dirty on the inside but anyone steeped in sin persistently, or without fruit, is very likely not in favor with God, even though His forgiveness is ever-present.

 

[ozso]

God judges by the heart, which he knows far better than anyone else, including ourselves. But our behavior can be a good indicator of where our hearts are: 'by their fruits you shall know them', etc. It's not a perfect science, however, because people can be clean on the outside while dirty on the inside but anyone steeped in sin persistently, or without fruit, is very likely not in favor with God, even though His forgiveness is ever-present.

For me my concern wasn't my behavior, but my relationship. When the relationship was restored on my end, that's when my eyes were opened to my behavior. I was like God saying to me "this is what happens when you drift away. This is how weak you become when you're not properly connected".

 

[fhansen]

For me my concern wasn't my behavior, but my relationship. When the relationship was restored on my end, that's when my eyes were opened to my behavior. I was like God saying to me "this is what happens when you drift away. This is how weak you become when you're not properly connected".

I like that-that's how it should be.

 

[ozso]

I like that-that's how it should be.

Thanks. I think it's fairly simple really. I started a thread once called "would you be a Christian if there wasn't an afterlife?" The point being that being a Christian has a lot to offer here and now. The reason for repenting and following Christ should be about wanting to become a better person. To live a clean life and have the power of God to back you up on it. It's not like the only thing Jesus said was "believe in me and you'll go to heaven". He told us a lot about how to be a better person and how to live a better life here on earth. As did his apostles.

You have the all powerful Lord and Master of the universe, who's not only willing to listen to you and help you out, but actually greatly desires to hear from you and fill you with His Spirit. That's incredibly amazing. Why pass it up?

 

[Sidon]

Well, that’s not at all what you implied in your last reply. What some seem to object to is that man should have any obligation, to contribute anything, even the obligation to love, .

When detailing salvation, when understanding it as God provides it, there is only one truth.
And that is, that God did it ALL for you... as a "GIFT" that we receive by Faith.

Now, if you want to talk about discipleship correctly, which is the YOUR Part, that you are referring to, as "love" or "lawkeeping", etc..... that is separate from God's redemption

Most believers at some point after they are SAVED, begin to misunderstand that they have no part in the actual regeneration and redemption.
They become confused, or self righteous, (deceived) and end up trying to commit discipleship as if its "how i am keeping myself saved".
So, when a person leaves the right mind of faith understanding that only God gets you into heaven through the only WAY He offers this redemption, which is John 14:6, then they have fallen victim to their own flesh. (wrong mind)(Carnal mind)
= They've become legalistic, or as Paul describes them, they are Fallen FROM.....Grace.
And that is a mental situation or a broken faith., where a person has left simple and real faith in Christ to keep them saved, and have reverted to faith in FAITH ....or faith in SELF to keep themselves saved.

They will sound like this.....>"as long as i dont lose my FAITH, i stay saved".

See that?
That is faith in FAITH to KEEP them saved, and that is not faith in CHRIST, to keep them saved.
And this person, under this type of legalistic deception, won't be able to understand what they are doing, and how they have fallen from REAL FAITH in CHRIST, and into faith in faith, or faith in themselves , to try to keep themselves saved.

See, the very second you come under the deception that you have to do anything to STAY SAVED, you have stopping real faith and started false faith.
False faith is "i have to do this.....or i have to make sure i don't do THAT, and then God will KEEP ME".

See that? See that MIND? That mind has a broken faith, that is NOT Trusting In Christ to get them into heaven.

This issue of Legalism is not about original believing, but its concerning a LATER reversal of true faith into failed faith... Its the self deceived mind set of trying by discipleship to keep yourself saved.

Legalism, regarding a born again person, and not regarding a water baptized person who is not born again but thinks they are because they were told that water baptism saved them......but the actual redeemed by the blood of Jesus BORN AGAIN person, has come under the influence of their own self righteousness, and now they are trying to KEEP THEMSELVES SAVED by their DISCIPLESHIP< that is often a combination of commandment keeping, and law keeping and trying to be good, as their self effort to do for themselves, what Christ has already finished for them, on The Cross, 2000 yrs ago.
This broken faith situation is "Fallen FROM Grace".

 

[Sidon]

That’s not walking in the Spirit at all. Ephesians 4 Paul specifically discusses walking in the Spirit. Walking in the Spirit is NOT SIMPLY GOING THRU LIFE THINKING YOUR SAVED NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO.

Walking in the Spirit, as my Thread explained, is to have your mind of faith, aligned with God's perspective, all the times, especially regarding how God views a born again Saint, as "the righteousness OF GOD........IN Christ"..

 

[Sidon]

You never answered either question.

In 1 Corinthians 2 we’re the people Paul was writing to carnal?

Were they saved?

Well, let me show you a key that will help you to understand when an Apostle is talking to the believers and not unsaved HEBREWS.


Read the 1st Chapter, BNR32FAN.
Read the 1st few verses, of any Epistle, and it will tell you if the Epistle is talking to the BRETHREN or the CHURCH..... as that is how you KNOW if this letter is written to the born again, or if its written to a person, or its written to UNSAVED Hebrews.

So, the answer to your question is that your verse, and that Epistle is written to the Brethren and the "church"....so, YES, its written to the born again.

 

[Sidon]

So the man who was killing Christians, was he a servant of God or a servant of satan?

If He or you are born again, then when you commit a work of the flesh.... then you are One of these, as Paul defines them...

"""""Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, 21 envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these.""""""""


See all that?
A born again person can do all that stuff.
This does not change the eternal reality that they are born again....>It just shows you that their FRUIT, their lifestyle, is really carnal, and they are probably horribly backslidden.
Obviously they are not this... "Present your body a LIVING Sacrifice".

Let me ask you a question., bnr32fan..
Do you think that when millions of Christians were watching "GAME of THRONES", for years, every week, and they saw the rape, the incest, the lust, the savage murder..........or when they watched something like The Soprano's, which is exactly the same .....do you think that all these millions of born again Christians who were watching that "Lite porn" and so forth.....never had a sting in their conscious that told them to TURN THAT OFF? "GET away from THAT" !!
Sure they did, and often.
But they kept on watching it for years, anyway.
Just like they keep on watching all sorts of sensual TV shows, night and day.
They are still born again, yet they are in the flesh, and enjoying it.

See "NETFLIX" for an accurate assessment of How many Carnal Christians are using it.

They are "of the world", vs, being transformed out of it.
Thats a good 95% of "christianity", and i dont have to poll that.
All i have to do is look around ...

 

[Sidon]

Yes, the law is a curse because, even though it’s right, holy, spiritual, and good as Paul tells us in Rom 7, it cannot accomplish righteousness in us, it cannot justify us, ”

Well, the law isn't a curse to us because it can't provide righteousness.
Its a curse to us because, its by the law, we are JUDGED as SINNERS.
And because of the law, we sin more.
Paul said that he knew sin, because of the law.

See, "the LAW is the POWER OF SIN">.
The LAW EMPOWERS Your carnality to want to do more of it.
That is its 'power".
So, when a Christian is trying to keep the law or commandments, to try to stay saved, or be accepted by God, then they put themselves back "under the law's dominion" and then that ENFLAMES their LUST, and that , Fhansen, is why you find most believers stuck in a habitual "sinning and confessing" lifestyle.

That is what happens to you, if you fall from Grace, and become a self saver, a legalist, who is trying by self effort to keep themselves saved.
Once you go there, in your faith, then the Law becomes your dominion, and you end up as a confessing, sinning, hot mess.
And this will never stop, until the person stops trying to be good and do right, to stay saved.

That is how the power of the law curses you INTO, a powerless carnal disciple.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Walking in the Spirit, as my Thread explained, is to have your mind of faith, aligned with God's perspective, all the times, especially regarding how God views a born again Saint, as "the righteousness OF GOD........IN Christ"..

How do you think God viewed the Galatians Paul was addressing in Galatians 4:5?

 

[BNR32FAN]

Well, let me show you a key that will help you to understand when an Apostle is talking to the believers and not unsaved HEBREWS.


Read the 1st Chapter, BNR32FAN.
Read the 1st few verses, of any Epistle, and it will tell you if the Epistle is talking to the BRETHREN or the CHURCH..... as that is how you KNOW if this letter is written to the born again, or if its written to a person, or its written to UNSAVED Hebrews.

So, the answer to your question is that your verse, and that Epistle is written to the Brethren and the "church"....so, YES, its written to the born again.

Were they carnal in nature?

 

[ozso]

If He or you are born again, then when you commit a work of the flesh.... then you are One of these, as Paul defines them...

"""""Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, 21 envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these.""""""""


See all that?
A born again person can do all that stuff.
This does not change the eternal reality that they are born again....>It just shows you that their FRUIT, their lifestyle, is really carnal, and they are probably horribly backslidden.
Obviously they are not this... "Present your body a LIVING Sacrifice".

Let me ask you a question., bnr32fan..
Do you think that when millions of Christians were watching "GAME of THRONES", for years, every week, and they saw the rape, the incest, the lust, the savage murder..........or when they watched something like The Soprano's, which is exactly the same .....do you think that all these millions of born again Christians who were watching that "Lite porn" and so forth.....never had a sting in their conscious that told them to TURN THAT OFF? "GET away from THAT" !!
Sure they did, and often.
But they kept on watching it for years, anyway.
Just like they keep on watching all sorts of sensual TV shows, night and day.
They are still born again, yet they are in the flesh, and enjoying it.

See "NETFLIX" for an accurate assessment of How many Carnal Christians are using it.

They are "of the world", vs, being transformed out of it.
Thats a good 95% of "christianity", and i dont have to poll that.
All i have to do is look around ...

When I was in my state of complacency I watched stuff like that. But these days it's unappealing. I don't think I'm more saved now than I was then, just more sanctified.

 

[fhansen]

Most believers at some point after they are SAVED, begin to misunderstand that they have no part in the actual regeneration and redemption.
They become confused, or self righteous, (deceived) and end up trying to commit discipleship as if its "how i am keeping myself saved".
So, when a person leaves the right mind of faith understanding that only God gets you into heaven through the only WAY He offers this redemption, which is John 14:6, then they have fallen victim to their own flesh. (wrong mind)(Carnal mind)

No, that's not how it works. Yes, the only way to the Father is through Jesus as per John 14:6- and that means we must take up our cross and follow Him daily. Jesus' burden is light, not non-existent. It's that obligation thing again. You're right, we must turn to God in recognition of our absolute and abject need for Him in order to be saved. But that in no way implies that He must not use our wills and our actions in the process. Talk is cheap-He wants us now to walk the talk-and yet He empowers even that walk. But He does not overwhelm our wills entirely, which is why we still sin whether or not we "see" ourselves as sinless in spite of that fact. He doesn't force us to take up our cross daily-because He wants us to want what He wants-and increasingly so, for our own highest good.

The new covenant does not excuse man from his obligation to be righteous, and to live that way. His will is involved. The righteousness comes from God-we decide every day whether we care or not. And this is why we're instructed, encouraged, warned, and admonished in the bible to strive, to persevere, to be holy, to be vigilant, to put to death the sins of the flesh, to remain in Him, to do good, to refrain from sin, with eternal life at stake. Even your teaching that we must see ourselves as holy, as God sees us, involves a conscious act of the mind and will. Some might say that's all it amounts to. Obligation does not equate to legalism. Legalism is to think that by my own actions, apart from God, adhering to some set of rules by the Letter, by mere external actions, that I am holy, and fit for eternal life. The Letter kills; it has no life in it and cannot give life.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Likewise there are people who are very religious and act righteous and pious but aren't saved. Isn't it really a matter of how well God knows a person regardless of how they behave?

Personally I've had periods of complacency where I distanced myself from God. Let things grow cold on my end. Yet I never went to strip clubs, even though I lived within walking distance of some in the many years I lived in Las Vegas. The Vegas phone book had a whole section for "escort" services and there were even brothels in the next county. I've never done drugs either. Although I had gotten drunk at home by myself on a few occasions. And I was of the belief that Jesus paid for my sins and His blood was all that saved me, but I believe the Spirit of God residing in me kept me away from much sinning I could have done while living in Sin City. I was saved at a young age, so I don't have an unsaved version of myself to look back on. But I think it's likely that if hadn't had the Spirit of God in me, I would have been a much different worse person. I believe my salvation then was based on God knowing me, rather than the externals of my good behavior vs my bad behavior. Then I had a quickening and became very well behaved. And was dismayed at some of my past behavior and thought to myself, "how could I be a Christian and act like that?". But I didn't think along the lines of "how could I be saved and act like that?". I somehow doubt God revoked my salvation and made me unborn again, when He knew that I would come around and start behaving the way I'm supposed to.

Don't you think loss of heavenly rewards is a big price to pay for earthly bad behavior. Is hell always the only outcome for bad Christians?

I agree with what your saying here to a point but we’re talking about a person who deliberately killed innocent people. A person in that state of mind is not abiding in Christ and he did not repent. Had he repented then I would agree that he could be saved but being killed in the act of killing innocent Christians, this person would be condemned to the lake of fire for all eternity because in his final moments he was serving satan and Christ was not in him. He is the man who was invited to the feast but was not wearing his wedding garments.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Walking in the Spirit, as my Thread explained, is to have your mind of faith, aligned with God's perspective, all the times, especially regarding how God views a born again Saint, as "the righteousness OF GOD........IN Christ"..

Your thread is not the authority on God’s word, so just because your thread claims to define what “walking in the Spirit” means, that doesn’t necessarily mean that it actually gives the same definition that the scriptures give. Walking in the Spirit is adhering to the guidance of the Holy Spirit not merely thinking your saved regardless of your actions or attitude. The goats mentioned in Matthew 25:31-46 sure sounded surprised when Jesus condemned them.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Well, let me show you a key that will help you to understand when an Apostle is talking to the believers and not unsaved HEBREWS.


Read the 1st Chapter, BNR32FAN.
Read the 1st few verses, of any Epistle, and it will tell you if the Epistle is talking to the BRETHREN or the CHURCH..... as that is how you KNOW if this letter is written to the born again, or if its written to a person, or its written to UNSAVED Hebrews.

So, the answer to your question is that your verse, and that Epistle is written to the Brethren and the "church"....so, YES, its written to the born again.

I didn’t ask if they were saved because I didn’t know the answer. I asked because I already knew the answer. My point was that Paul’s message in 1 Corinthians 2:14 is that those who set their mind on the flesh cannot discern things of the Spirit because they are not focusing on the Spirit.

“But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭2:14‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

This statement had nothing to do with people thinking they were “self righteous”. There’s nothing in that entire chapter, nor the previous chapter, which was chapter 1, nor the next chapter that gave any mention at all about “self righteousness”. Your merely inserting that into the message which is completely out of context of what Paul was discussing. Paul’s entire message here is built around focusing on the Spirit rather than the flesh. The Corinthians were still in a worldly mindset boasting about who they follow as if Paul, Apollos, or Peter, we’re of a higher authority than the others, which Paul rebuked them by explaining that they each served God and their work was not of themselves but of God. This message wasn’t about walking in the Spirit it was about listening to the Spirit. Notice the word “walk” isn’t even mentioned anywhere in these chapters unlike chapters 4 & 5 of Ephesians that I quoted which use the word “walk” several times where Paul was explaining to the Ephesians how to act and how live their life and to refrain from sin. That is walking in the Spirit. It’s adhering to the guidance of the Spirit, it’s listening and obeying. As Christ said in John 10:27 “My sheep hear My voice, I know them, and they follow”. Or as He stated in Matthew 7:24 “ Therefore everyone who heard my words and acts on them are like a wise man who built his house on the rock.” And in contrast He also said “Everyone who hears my words and doesn’t act on them is like the foolish man who built his house on the sand”.

 

[BNR32FAN]

If He or you are born again, then when you commit a work of the flesh.... then you are One of these, as Paul defines them...

"""""Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, 21 envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these.""""""""


See all that?
A born again person can do all that stuff.
This does not change the eternal reality that they are born again....>It just shows you that their FRUIT, their lifestyle, is really carnal, and they are probably horribly backslidden.
Obviously they are not this... "Present your body a LIVING Sacrifice".

Let me ask you a question., bnr32fan..
Do you think that when millions of Christians were watching "GAME of THRONES", for years, every week, and they saw the rape, the incest, the lust, the savage murder..........or when they watched something like The Soprano's, which is exactly the same .....do you think that all these millions of born again Christians who were watching that "Lite porn" and so forth.....never had a sting in their conscious that told them to TURN THAT OFF? "GET away from THAT" !!
Sure they did, and often.
But they kept on watching it for years, anyway.
Just like they keep on watching all sorts of sensual TV shows, night and day.
They are still born again, yet they are in the flesh, and enjoying it.

See "NETFLIX" for an accurate assessment of How many Carnal Christians are using it.

They are "of the world", vs, being transformed out of it.
Thats a good 95% of "christianity", and i dont have to poll that.
All i have to do is look around ...

I don’t understand why we are comparing watching a sinful television show to killing several innocent Christians. These two are hardly comparable scenarios. Also I have Netflix and I’ve never watched any of those shows. There are a lot of shows on Netflix that aren’t of that nature and how would Netflix even know how many people who are watching are Christians? They don’t ask people what religion they are. Your making this statement about 95% of Christians watching sinful garbage on Netflix in a completely vacuum of information. You have no way of knowing that. I used to enjoy watching The Bible series on Netflix, I’ve seen it on there several times in the past. The whole reason that I say that the man who was killed in the process of killing innocent Christians would burn in the lake of fire is because he died having not repented of his sin. He died while he was actually committing the sin and was not abiding in Christ at the time of his death.

 

[com7fy8]

then you are finally "walking in THE Spirit", but not until you see this and become this same "mind" having put it on.

But Jesus says the "blessed" are poor in spirit, meek, merciful, and pure in heart . . . right? So, we need how God changes us to become in our new character . . . not only in how we see ourselves and think about ourselves.

"rather let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the incorruptible beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is very precious in the sight of God." (1 Peter 3:4)

Here, "gentle and quiet", I consider, means how Jesus in us is "gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls" (Matthew 11:28-30) > by nature, God's love makes us gentle in quiet rest. And this makes us pleasing to our Father.

Plus, in the gentleness and quietness of Jesus we have the character to be submissive to our Father, so we can obey how He rules us in His own peace >

"And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body; and be thankful." (Colossians 3:15)

This is a basic of Christianity > that we submit "in one body" to how our Father rules us in His own peace in us.

So, this is included in walking in the Holy Spirit.