How to walk in the Spirit.

[Sidon]

There are both legalists and non-legalists who believe that one can lose their salvation

Can you name a "non-legalist" who believes you can lose your salvation?
They don't exist.
See, the very reason a person has lost faith in Christ and now is trying to stay saved by self effort, is because they have "fallen from Grace".
To become that believer, is to become a legalist.
They are one and the same.

 

[Sidon]

According to 2 Cor 5:17
If anyone is in Christ, he is new creature.
Does that apply to spirit, soul, and flesh too. If it is flesh why dont heal deaf or blind person sickness, to be new creature if he or she has born again. Confusing here.

No it does not.

Think about this..
Why do you get a NEW BODY?
'Its because the one you have is dead in sin, and is dying.
Its not redeemed.

See, the part of you that is the real you, is your Spirit, not your body.
You , the real you, is your Spirit, and it lives IN your body.
Your body is a temporary container.
Its an EARTH SUIT, made of dirt, and will return to the dirt.
You body is dying, and will die, and your SPIRIT will not.
So, God came here to deal with your SPIRIT NOW, and your BODY later.
You are born again or not, NOW, while you are in that body, on this earth.
If you receive Christ and are born again......not just water baptized, but BORN AGAIN, then your Spirit has become the "new Creation" IN Christ.
Next, ... if you die, or if you are Raptured, your body will be replaced by a new one.
See, the born again spirit in a person is in the wrong body, because the earth body is corrupted and dying.. So, God will give you a new body, that is the correct one regarding the "new Creation" born again Spirit.

 

[fhansen]

Perhaps I didn't get all that above the way I was meant to. Because what you said here seems vague. Although it does seem you're saying you getting to heaven will be based on how well you perform ie "our love will get us into heaven". What we do and how well we do it and what we abstain from is our way into heaven. It's up to us to save ourselves by how well we love; to the amount God requires us to love, but we don't know what that amount is...

Maybe you’re not getting it because you’re not really reading my posts with much care. In Christianity, man cannot possibly save himself, because man cannot make himself righteous enough to be saved, because he possesses no righteousness on his own, apart from God. And we’re born apart from God. So the idea is that we must become united with God first of all, a relationship that man was made for, and then He makes us righteous, who we were created to be. He accomplishes in us what we cannot on our own, what the law could not accomplish in us. He justifies us. Apart from Him sin is inevitable, but with Him we’re moved towards obedience and righteousness. That’s a work of His in us. And the identity of that righteousness is chiefly love.
Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?” Rom 6:16

As we love, we become increasingly like Him, and we act like Him, and love acts, in many righteous ways, for the good of others, and love overcomes sin in us. But it remains an option, so the more we remain turned from the world and the “flesh”, that means that we’re remaining in Him, and in that love.

So, yes, as I’ve said, what we do counts, even though it’s all compelled by the grace of God, just as faith is compelled by Him. We’re not justified by works of the law, we’re justified by God. Then we work, as Jesus, Paul, John and James et al attest, because then grace, then love, then the Spirit works in us towards our salvation, as long as we stay on board. But that work is easy because now it’s done willingly, with the mind of Christ, out of love, the loves He’s wrought within us.
“...just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.” Rom 5:21

But we can turn away from that righteousness. We’ll be judged by the fruit that’s produced by love, as we remain faithful to Him. The law produces no such fruit, it can only define it.
"I am the vine and you are the branches. The one who remains in Me, and I in him, will bear much fruit. For apart from Me you can do nothing. If anyone does not remain in Me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers. Such branches are gathered up, thrown into the fire, and burned." John 15:5-6

“You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either. Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.” Rom 11:19-22

 

[Sidon]

What do you yourself mean by a believer who's fallen from grace?

Departed from faith in Christ to stay saved, to faith in SELF to try to stay saved.

They sound like this..

"yes i know that God saved me, but....but......but.....now, i have to do it, i have to work, keep commandments, endure to the end, live holy, keep the torah, ........."'"

See all that SELF EFFORT in place of Faith in Christ to keep them Saved?

They wil also tell you this..
"yes, all my sins are resolved by the CROSS, except for the ones i commit after im saved".

In other words they LIMIT God's BLood Atonement to only forgiving the sin committed before they are born again, and until that day. But from the day they are born again, they teach that YOU have to deal with your Sin, as Christ's blood doesn't cover any of your sin that you commit after you are saved, they teach.

So, this person has lost faith in Christ to keep them saved, and now they are on the Cross of their own self righteousness, trying to keep from losing their salvation, because they don't believe that Christ keeps them Saved.

 

[fhansen]

Can you name a "non-legalist" who believes you can lose your salvation?
They don't exist.
See, the very reason a person has lost faith in Christ and now is trying to stay saved by self effort, is because they have "fallen from Grace".
To become that believer, is to become a legalist.
They are one and the same.

A legalist tries to be righteous on his own, by adhering to the law; that’s what it means to be “under the law”. It’s to act as if one is righteous apart from faith, apart from God IOW. A legalist lives by legalism, defined by Merriam Webster thusly: “strict, literal, or excessive conformity to the law or to a religious or moral code”. It’s to obey by the letter, not the Spirit.

A person who loves is not involved in legalism; they simply love, whether or not they’ve ever even heard of the commandment to love. If they obey and fulfill God’s law its only because they love, not the other way around. The law cannot produce love, only God can do so. Love results from the fellowship with God that is realized by faith. And,
“For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.” Rom 2:13

“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. Against such things there is no law.” Gal 5:22-23

Now, if God happens to judge us on the love that He’s wrought within us, as we’ve cooperated with Him in that endeavor (since love, as with faith, is necessarily a choice as well as a gift), that’s His prerogative.

 

[Sidon]

Your mixing two completely different epistles to completely different people who are in completely different situations. Paul was not teaching the Galatians that they don’t have to refrain from sin, he was teaching them that they cannot attain salvation by obedience to the Mosaic Law. We are a servant to the master of whom we serve, either a servant of God or a servant of satan. Romans 6:16. The entire chapter 4 of Ephesians is about how to walk in the Spirit which is by adhering to His guidance.

Ok here’s a scenario, a man believes all his sins are forgiven by Christ so he walks into a church and starts shooting everyone inside killing everyone he sees and in the process the police arrive and shoot the man dead. Is this man saved because he trusted in Christ to forgive his sins?

"""""""""""Your mixing two completely different epistles to completely different people who are in completely different situations. Paul was not teaching the Galatians that they don’t have to refrain from sin, he was teaching them that they cannot attain salvation by obedience to the Mosaic Law. We are a servant to the master of whom we serve, either a servant of God or a servant of satan. Romans 6:16. The entire chapter 4 of Ephesians is about how to walk in the Spirit which is by adhering to His guidance.
"""""""""""""

Im not mixing anything.
Im teaching Pauline Theology.

And regarding our discussion, on my Thread, Im just simplifying what it means, what it actually means to walk IN the Spirit.
See that "IN"..... THE Spirit.
This is a specific situation that is : to simply have God's perspective of who you are "in Christ" vs self righteousness, which is the natural mind or the carnal mind, that can't understand spiritual things, as related to God's Grace.

"the natural man (carnal mind) receives NOT the things of God as they are Spiritually Discerned (walking in THE Spirit".

And that verse, is not kidding.
There are thousands of denomination created by people who read the bible like its a novel and run out there and start their man made carnal "church".
The world is full of these denominations.



""""""""""Ok here’s a scenario, a man believes all his sins are forgiven by Christ so he walks into a church and starts shooting everyone inside killing everyone he sees and in the process the police arrive and shoot the man dead. Is this man saved because he trusted in Christ to forgive his sins?""""""""

If the shooter is born again, then not just all your sin, ... but all his are covered, by Christ's blood.
And you say...

"but how can the SIN we do today, and a week now, be already forgiven".

Well that question is the dividing line between a believer who understands the Blood Atonement and one who doesn't.

Listen,
on the day you were born again, and im assuming you are not just water baptized, but are actually become a "New creation" in CHRIST< as that is not something that WATER can accomplish for you...
So, if you are born again, and lets say, that happened yesterday.
Now, all your sin is gone, right?
Jesus's blood took care of it.
But when?
See, here is the thing...
God applied the Blood to you yesterday,.....However...Can you SEE that the blood of Jesus took care of your sin 2000 yrs ago?
So, the Salvation that Jesus completed 2000 yrs ago, saved you, 2000 yrs LATER, by Application.
See that?

This is the wonder of Salvation.
God has forgiven the world (all people) their sin, 2000 yrs ago, but the forgiveness is not APPLiED until each person BELIEVES on Jesus.
"faith is COUNTED as Righteousness".
So, the Forgiveness is always there, but its not applied to anyone, until..."all who believe on Jesus SHALL BE SAVED".

The blood of God on The CROSS, redeemed you, 2000 yrs after Jesus died.
See that?
Do you see that what happened 2000 yrs ago, is reaching INTO THE FURURE to save you, and to save me?
That is the "power of the BLOOD". Its an ETERNAL Sacrifice.
It REDEEMS forever and ever.
So, that is the BLood Atonement, continuing into the FUTURE, and forever, to keep redeeming.
And that is why it keeps SAVING YOU, since the day it saved you.
It saved you the day you were saved, and today, and forever.
That is the BLOOD ATONEMENT ....>Its an ETERNAL Sacrifice.
See, ...What happened 2000 yrs ago, keeps redeeming forever, all who are made righteous by that Blood of God.

So, if the shooter is born again, then his deed does not stop the Blood of Jesus from doing it redeeming work.
His deed is just one more sin that the Blood of God paid for 2000 yrs ago.

And here is one more for you, BNR32fan..

If you are born again , then on the day God saved you, He knew of all the sin you are going to commit LATER, AFTER HE SAVED YOU THAT DAY.
And He SAVED YOU ANYWAY, knowing you would sin later.
And why?
Because God knows that His Blood takes care of all that, later, and forever.
And its the same with that Shooter.
God knew he would do that, later......and God saved Him ANYWAY.

See, God does not save and redeem based on if you are worthy....
God REDEEMS only and always based on what Jesus did for you, 2000 yrs ago.

"By GRACE. you are saved, (Not works) and that is the Gift of God".

 

[Sidon]

So you've actually taken a thorough poll and determined that 99% of Christians believe a certain way, and that therefore you are right in 99% are wrong?

Here is the thing.
You look at our conversation as you trying to win an argument.
So, you assume that is what im doing here.
But im not.
Im not here to win an argument, Im only here to put out Light for the sake of those who are able to receive it with a heart that wants to be enlightened.

My Threads and my responses are not debate points.
They are a classroom and all are welcome to learn, or not.
That's the reality.

 

[Sidon]

A person who loves is not involved in legalism; they simply love,

Try not to use secular texts to try to prove your theology.
That's a fail., as I was telling you a similar thing recently.

Now the reason you and i have not come to an agreement, is because the first 30 times you posted to me, you were talking about how import the LAW IS...
So, if you have now changed your theology, from law-keeping to Christ's Righteousness, as all that God accepts to accept you., then good for you, and welcome to "justification by Faith".
If you haven't then you are still involved in Legalism.

 

[Sidon]

Hypothetical generalization; it has no value.

That is your opinion, once again.
You are welcome to it.

 

[Sidon]

The Galatians that Paul wrote to are long dead, so it's difficult to spot them.

He was not just talking to the Galatians, just as He is not just talking to the Philippians, Corinthians, and the Ephesians, and Timothy, and Titus, and Gaus.
Paul is in fact talking to the body of Christ, in all his Epistles.

And you are incorrect.
Its not difficult to spot a legalist. (fallen from Grace).
All i have to do is find out if you believe that you can lose your salvation.
So, it takes me exactly one question and a response.
Takes about 5 seconds, or less, for me to know.
God doesn't even have to ask you.
He just looks in your heart and learns if you are trusting in Christ to keep you saved , or if you are trusting in YOURSELF to do it.

see that?
Its easy for us both to discern this "legalism" regarding any believer, including you, pescador.

 

[fhansen]

Try not to use secular texts to try to prove your theology.
That's a fail., as I was telling you a similar thing recently

Well, no, your advice was a fail, both times. The non-biblical texts only reflect a biblical concept, which is what we’re all doing meaning to do here. Otherwise nothing you write should even be read, let alone considered to be valid.

Now the reason you and i have not come to an agreement, is because the first 30 times you posted to me, you were talking about how import the LAW IS...
So, if you have now changed your theology, from law-keeping to Christ's Righteousness, as all that God accepts to accept you., then good for you, and welcome to "justification by Faith".
If you haven't then you are still involved in Legalism.

If you take care to read my posts, you’ll find that they’re consistent from beginning to end. And you may even happen to grow in your understanding of the gospel as well.

 

[Sidon]

“You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief,

Yes, """UNBELIEF""", is Christ Rejection.
You have this in the Old Testament, regarding the fact that the Jews as a nation, rejected their Messiah.
That's true.
You see this also in Hebrews 10 and Acts 28.
Same Jews, Same Christ Rejection.

And God is now not dealing with them as He did in the Old Testament, because He is dealing with the Gentiles, in the "time of the Gentile", which is the current dispensation., or "season", if you prefer to think of it that way.

So, if you are trying to prove that you can lose your salvation, by using a symbolic verse that is explaining that the Jewish Nation rejected their Messiah, then you are really not understanding what you are trying to prove.

See, in all cases, Christ Rejection is "UNBELIEF", .
And this is only speaking about CHRIST REJECTORS who are not born again.
So, dont apply the result of never being born again to the body of Christ, by misusing a symbolic verse that is aimed at the Jews, (the nation).
So if you use this verse, then use it correctly, noting that the context of the situation is : UNBELIEF.
And that does not apply to the born again, as they are already saved and accepted by God because they have already BELIEVED.
Once you are born again, you are always born again.

 

[BNR32FAN]

the natural man (carnal mind) receives NOT the things of God as they are Spiritually Discerned (walking in THE Spirit".

Two questions about this verse

1 we’re the people Paul was writing to carnal in nature?

2 were they saved?

 

[Sidon]

“For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.” Rom 2:13
.

This "Law" you are not understanding.... is not the OT or Commandment keeping, but its the "righteousness of God in Christ"
Its the Law of GRACE, which is "Justification by faith".

Remember i told you about Philippians 3, where Paul said he is "perfect in the Law"?
And then said that this is "DUNG" with regards to being accepted by God? ( Being Saved)
Did you forget already?

See, the law does not declare you righteous. It declares you to be a SINNER.
This is why "Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the Law".

Why is it a curse? its because "the POWER OF SIN.....is the LAW"..

So, when you are trying to falsely prove that a person is made righteous by the LAW, then you are denying that Jesus's Blood is the ONLY reason for redemption and salvation and eternal life.

You need to think about what you are posting.

 

[Sidon]

If you take care to read my posts, you’ll find that they’re consistent from beginning to end. And you may even happen to grow in your understanding of the gospel as well.

I agree that you are consistently teaching that the LAW, being kept, is how we are righteous.

So, what you are teaching is this... Galatians 1:8

See, lawkeeping is not the Gospel.
Lawkeeping, is Legalsim.
So, what you do is combine it, as a hybrid type of : The Cross + Lawkeeping as your idea of the Grace of God.
Bad idea, and a terrible theology, as it does not give all Credit for Salvation to the Holy One who Himself is Salvation.

 

[Sidon]

Two questions about this verse

1 we’re the people Paul was writing to carnal in nature?

2 were they saved?

Thanks for the Qs.


BNR32FAN........All human nature is carnal, as the "Human nature" is the fallen adamic nature. Its the carnal nature, or the "flesh", .... its the "natural mind".

More specifically, "human nature" is "LUST", and that is the Devil's nature.
See, all who are not born again, have the ADAMIC NATURE only, and do not have the "New creation In Christ", born again Spirit.
What does that mean ??????, it means that all unbelievers are children of the devil.
He is their FATHER.
And until a person is Born again by GOD, (New Father)....., they remain, a CHILD OF THE DEVIL....their father.
OR as Jesus said..."you are of YOUR FATHER .......THE DEVIL">.

The born again, are re-birthed by their NEW FATHER, who is "abba', the Father of Christ, the Father of all the Born again.

Did you ever wonder why unbelievers go to Hell ......then as of Revelation 20:11, they all end up in the LAKE OF FIRE?
Its because the Lake of FIRE is """"created for the DEVIL and His angels""""., and that means that its the eternal situation for the DEVIL"S OWN, and this includes every CHRIST REJECTOR.

So, the born again, end up in HEAVEN with their Father.

While all The Christ rejectors, die, and end up in Hell then the Lake of fire, with THEIR FATHER.

John 3:36

 

[fhansen]

I agree that you are consistently teaching that the LAW, being kept, is how we are righteous.

Well, that’s not at all what you implied in your last reply. What some seem to object to is that man should have any obligation, to contribute anything, even the obligation to love, to a love which is impossible to obtain apart from God. It’s more about man’s willingness to accept and get on board, and remain on board, with Gods offer of Himself to us than it is about anything else.

When one loves, they’re doing the right thing, regardless of whether or not they’ve heard of the commandment that obliges us to love. So consider, for a moment, that God saves us by making us righteous, by making us what the law could not make us. And then that we must walk in that righteousness, in that love. That ties Jesus, Paul, James, John, and the entire Bible together. Rather than saving us by suddenly ignoring whether or not we’re righteous.

God did not create anyone to sin. Sin is injustice, disorder, death, in His creation. So Jesus takes away sin, lawlessness. The right way, by reconciling us with the only One who can produce the love in us that fulfills the law, without regard to the law, even though the law and prophets testify to it (Rom 3:21). Faith must mean righteousness in man, or it’s done nothing to reconcile the division between God and himself. That is not legalism. That is all about love, Love begetting love, for the sake of truth, justice, peace, joy, and the final uncompromised wellbeing and happiness of all creation, as God has always intended it to be.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Im not mixing anything.
Im teaching Pauline Theology.

And regarding our discussion, on my Thread, Im just simplifying what it means, what it actually means to walk IN the Spirit.
See that "IN"..... THE Spirit.
This is a specific situation that is : to simply have God's perspective of who you are "in Christ" vs self righteousness, which is the natural mind or the carnal mind, that can't understand spiritual things, as related to God's Grace.

That’s not walking in the Spirit at all. Ephesians 4 Paul specifically discusses walking in the Spirit. Walking in the Spirit is NOT SIMPLY GOING THRU LIFE THINKING YOUR SAVED NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO. You do not understand what becoming a new creation is at all. Do you think a person has become a new creation simply by thinking that they are saved and yet having no change in their way of life? I know people like this who go to strip clubs and get drunk and high on drugs and have sex with prostitutes and they mock Jesus’ words and twist them to their advantage by saying “it’s ok Jesus paid for my sins so it doesn’t matter how much I sin, Jesus will forgive me”. There is no change in people like this, the Spirit of God DOES NOT reside in them. They aren’t a new creation at all, they are simply the same old sinful person they’ve always been using Jesus’ sacrifice as an excuse to continue serving their father satan. Do you really think that the person who was killing Christians was ABIDING IN CHRIST? In order to receive salvation we must repent of our sin. Read Revelation 2 and 3. Jesus says over and over to the 7 churches in Asia Minor “I know your deeds, REPENT”!

 

[BNR32FAN]

Thanks for the Qs.


BNR32FAN........All human nature is carnal, as the "Human nature" is the fallen adamic nature. Its the carnal nature, or the "flesh", .... its the "natural mind".

More specifically, "human nature" is "LUST", and that is the Devil's nature.
See, all who are not born again, have the ADAMIC NATURE only, and do not have the "New creation In Christ", born again Spirit.
What does that mean ??????, it means that all unbelievers are children of the devil.
He is their FATHER.
And until a person is Born again by GOD, (New Father)....., they remain, a CHILD OF THE DEVIL....their father.
OR as Jesus said..."you are of YOUR FATHER .......THE DEVIL">.

The born again, are re-birthed by their NEW FATHER, who is "abba', the Father of Christ, the Father of all the Born again.

Did you ever wonder why unbelievers go to Hell ......then as of Revelation 20:11, they all end up in the LAKE OF FIRE?
Its because the Lake of FIRE is """"created for the DEVIL and His angels""""., and that means that its the eternal situation for the DEVIL"S OWN, and this includes every CHRIST REJECTOR.

So, the born again, end up in HEAVEN with their Father.

While all The Christ rejectors, die, and end up in Hell then the Lake of fire, with THEIR FATHER.

John 3:36

You never answered either question.

In 1 Corinthians 2 we’re the people Paul was writing to carnal?

Were they saved?

 

[BNR32FAN]

Thanks for the Qs.


BNR32FAN........All human nature is carnal, as the "Human nature" is the fallen adamic nature. Its the carnal nature, or the "flesh", .... its the "natural mind".

More specifically, "human nature" is "LUST", and that is the Devil's nature.
See, all who are not born again, have the ADAMIC NATURE only, and do not have the "New creation In Christ", born again Spirit.
What does that mean ??????, it means that all unbelievers are children of the devil.
He is their FATHER.
And until a person is Born again by GOD, (New Father)....., they remain, a CHILD OF THE DEVIL....their father.
OR as Jesus said..."you are of YOUR FATHER .......THE DEVIL">.

The born again, are re-birthed by their NEW FATHER, who is "abba', the Father of Christ, the Father of all the Born again.

Did you ever wonder why unbelievers go to Hell ......then as of Revelation 20:11, they all end up in the LAKE OF FIRE?
Its because the Lake of FIRE is """"created for the DEVIL and His angels""""., and that means that its the eternal situation for the DEVIL"S OWN, and this includes every CHRIST REJECTOR.

So, the born again, end up in HEAVEN with their Father.

While all The Christ rejectors, die, and end up in Hell then the Lake of fire, with THEIR FATHER.

John 3:36

So the man who was killing Christians, was he a servant of God or a servant of satan?