How can baptism be required for salvation?

[Albion]

It is only a display of one parent holding her baby while someone else gets that baby's hair wet

Nevertheless, that's a public display...and it doesn't apply only to children.

I can only respond to what you've written, not what you are going to write after you get my response.

 

[GodLovesCats]

John the Baptist seemed to receive faith when his mother heard Mary's greeting.@ChristianForCats

Yes, because the Holy Spirit washed himself over Elizabeth then. He only did it once. It was obviously not natural or indicative of what normal fetuses do.

 

[GodLovesCats]

Nevertheless, that's a public display...and it doesn't apply only to children.

Yes it does. Adults are immersed. Babies are not immersed because of the drowning risk.

Can you show me any Bible passages about adults being baptized the way babies are?

 

[Albion]

Yes it does. Adults are immersed.

Once again, you're attempting to describe the whole of Christianity as if your own church or your belief were the norm. No, adults are not baptised by immersion in the great majority of churches.

 

[GreekOrthodox]

Yes it does. Adults are immersed. Babies are not immersed because of the drowning risk.

Can you show me any Bible passages about adults being baptized the way babies are?

Orthodox immerse infants. Go to about the 40 second mark

 

[Eloy Craft]

Yes, because the Holy Spirit washed himself over Elizabeth then. He only did it once. It was obviously not natural or indicative of what normal fetuses do.

The reason it's good to Baptized infants is because John's Baptism prepared the recipient to accept Christ before they encounter Him. John's disciples were baptized with water by John for repentance, instructed with the Word to know and accept Jesus and receive the Spirit. That was the one Baptism then and the same process happens to individuals. No reason to exclude infants if the parents commit to their instruction in the faith.

 

[GodLovesCats]

The reason it's good to Baptized infants is because John's Baptism prepared the recipient to accept Christ before they encounter Him. John's disciples were baptized with water by John for repentance, instructed with the Word to know and accept Jesus and receive the Spirit. That was the one Baptism then and the same process happens to individuals. No reason to exclude infants if the parents commit to their instruction in the faith.

How does infant baptism prepare someone to receive the Holy Spirit? It does absolutely nothing to help a person choose Christianity.

Baptism is a public display of the conversion to Christ. Whether a person receives the Holy Spirit or not is a personal choice that can't be made during infancy.

 

[klutedavid]

It was fairly well universal until around 1500 or so. And no one ever argued over the meaning of anything in the bible.

I don't think that is true. The disciples of Jesus argued with each other. The council of Jerusalem had a very lively debate in Acts 15.

I am afraid that, there has always been a range of disagreement since the time of Jesus.

That's the way people are.

 

[klutedavid]

For God so loved the world He gave his one and only Son, that whosoever believes in Him will have everlasting life. - John 3:16 (No mention of baptism)

If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. - Romans 10:9 (No mention of baptism)

Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. - Mark 16:16 (Notice baptism is completely useless without faith.)

Now, on the last verse, it appears baptism is a requirement. However, the emphasis on faith in it shows us all baptism does not save anyone. Why did John baptize people before the Holy Spirit came down? Why do so many Christians believe if you are not baptized in water, you are blocked from heaven?

Because they do not understand the New Testament fulfillment of all things.

Matthew 3:11
As for me, I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

If you have not been baptized with the Holy Spirit and fire. Then you have not been baptized.

The baptism of John was a shadow baptism.

Jesus is the one who baptizes in the New Covenant.

Then after that baptism in the Holy Spirit, then by all means make a public display of your faith. And get baptized in a river just like the disciples and Jesus.

The New Testament must be understood from a spiritual perspective.

Sorry about that.

 

[GodLovesCats]

I was baptized in a baptismal pool on the church stage by two pastors one year after being saved.

 

[Eloy Craft]

How does infant baptism prepare someone to receive the Holy Spirit? It does absolutely nothing to help a person choose Christianity.

If it did absolutely nothing to help a person choose Christ why did John bother to Baptize?

 

[Eloy Craft]

Baptism is a public display of the conversion to Christ.

Baptism is for the benefit of the public? Or does God need you to be baptized in front of an audience?

 

[GodLovesCats]

If it did absolutely nothing to help a person choose Christ why did John bother to baptize?

That is my question in the OP because I know baptism does nothing for babies.

If baptism helped people choose Christ, everyone with Christian parents would be a Christian.

 

[GodLovesCats]

Baptism is for the benefit of the public? Or does God need you to be baptized in front of an audience?

Jesus commanded baptism to demonstrate your spiritual death (the dunk) and rebirth (coming up).

What makes baptism public is pastors do it during a service. There probably are not many people who will have pastors come to private swimming pools for the event. Baptism can be private if you prefer, but most people have no reason not to do it at church.

 

[bbbbbbb]

If it did absolutely nothing to help a person choose Christ why did John bother to Baptize?

Actually, that is an excellent question. John's baptism was a baptism of repentance, unlike the baptism of Jesus Christ. Thus, John's disciples had difficulty understanding Jesus and His disciples. When Paul encountered the twelve disciples of John in Acts 19 they were rebaptized.

Acts 19:1 It happened that while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul passed through the upper country and came to Ephesus, and found some disciples. 2 He said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” And they said to him, “No, we have not even heard whether there is a Holy Spirit.” 3 And he said, “Into what then were you baptized?” And they said, “Into John’s baptism.” 4 Paul said, “John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in Him who was coming after him, that is, in Jesus.” 5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking with tongues and prophesying. 7 There were in all about twelve men.

 

[bbbbbbb]

That is my question in the OP because I know baptism does nothing for babies.

If baptism helped people choose Christ, everyone with Christian parents would be a Christian.

Moreover, sincere Christian pastors would be found in every hospital in the land patrolling the halls with bowls of water to baptize everyone who had not been baptized yet. They would be going house to house as well as demanding entrance into schools, malls, and everywhere one would find an unbaptized person.

That said, we have whole countries such as France where the vast majority of folks were baptized as babies. Yet, by the Catholic Church's own reckoning, virtually all of these folks are headed straight to hell because they are guilty of mortal sin (not attending weekly mass).

 

[Albion]

What makes baptism public is pastors do it during a service.

and that's the standard practice no matter how the water is applied or how old the candidate is.

There probably are not many people who will have pastors come to private swimming pools for the event.

I couldn't say, but the most recent baptism I saw was done that way and the people there seemed to think it was the most natural thing, considering that the congregation in question is not one that has a built-in pool inside the church building.

 

[Eloy Craft]

That is my question in the OP because I know baptism does nothing for babies.

Why would it do something for adults that it wouldn't do for babies?

baptism helped people choose Christ, everyone with Christian parents would be a Christian.

People don't lose their freedom baptized or not. But if they are they got their sins forgiven and an opportunity to cooperate with the Grace of God to sanctify their life and fulfill their mission as a member of Christ's Body. Or not. Why would you deny that to your baby? What if your baby died before Baptism? Do you have a reason to believe it's end is heaven? Any reason it's end is not hell? It's what we all deserve right? Children of wrath that we are.

 

[Eloy Craft]

Thus, John's disciples had difficulty understanding Jesus and His disciples.

Hi, thanks.
I think John Baptized so people could accept Jesus. What about this?

Luke 7
28 For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist: but he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.

29 And all the people that heard him, and the publicans, justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John.

30 But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him.

 

[GodLovesCats]

Why would it do something for adults that it wouldn't do for babies?

Babies can't believe in and love Jesus as their Lord and Savior. Without belief, baptism means nothing.