How can baptism be required for salvation?

[bbbbbbb]

Thank you.

You are welcome.

 

[ralliann]

For God so loved the world He gave his one and only Son, that whosoever believes in Him will have everlasting life. - John 3:16 (No mention of baptism)

If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. - Romans 10:9 (No mention of baptism)

Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. - Mark 16:16 (Notice baptism is completely useless without faith.)

Now, on the last verse, it appears baptism is a requirement. However, the emphasis on faith in it shows us all baptism does not save anyone. Why did John baptize people before the Holy Spirit came down? Why do so many Christians believe if you are not baptized in water, you are blocked from heaven?

Because it was the washing of repentance from sin. Notice Gentiles received the holy spirit first, then water Baptism. But Jews baptism of repentance then holy spirit.
Said concerning Cornelius
Ac 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
But Jews baptism of repentance then holy spirit.

How many infants have received the holy spirit? The parent baptizes an infant, to raise them in the discipline and fear of the Lord. like circumcision among Jews

 

[returntosender]

Isn't it mandatory for a person to be baptised if he wants to be a Catholic?
That's not true of many other doctrines.

 

[ralliann]

Isn't it mandatory for a person to be baptised if he wants to be a Catholic?
That's not true of many other doctrines.

Catholics baptize infants. then later children get confirmed. similar to a bar mitzvah I think. Adults need to be confirmed once they are catechized. Not sure about that though.

 

[GreekOrthodox]

Orthodox, Catholic, Lutheran and other groups that consider baptism as a sacrament will accept any Christian baptism done in the name of the Trinity. Generally, we will accept adult converts after a period of instruction through chrismation or confirmation of faith. Adult catechism will last anywhere from 3 to 12 months. Non-Christian converts or from a faith that does not practice Trinitarian baptism such as LDS will be go through adult catechism followed by baptism and confirmation.

 

[enoob57]

At what point was the thief on the cross baptized? and yet Jesus saved him.

This is exactly right and for this God would become a respect of person not to do it to all!

John 3:5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. RSVCE

There are two possibilities
What does it mean to be born of water? | GotQuestions.org
I believe because of Nicodemus' quandary

John 3:4 (KJV)

[4] Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

[5] Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

I believe Jesus was speaking of natural birth... you say doesn't all come that way~ not cloning and it is in this the anti-christ will in fact deceive with the mortal wound...

It's facsinating how people who stand firmly on the revealed word of God feel no hesitation about writing some of it themselves.


And this ^ doesn't even make sense, all the theology aside.

Standing in front of a congregation and having water poured on your head sure as anything does amount to a "public display," every bit as much as having a minister baptize you in your backyard swimming pool!

We are to be followers of Jesus:

Matthew 3:16 (KJV)
[16] And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

Jesus commanded baptism to demonstrate your spiritual death (the dunk) and rebirth (coming up).

What makes baptism public is pastors do it during a service. There probably are not many people who will have pastors come to private swimming pools for the event. Baptism can be private if you prefer, but most people have no reason not to do it at church.

The public was necessary to break the ties to the temple and law... it would mean to be ostracized from Jewish culture and work... to those born again all things are to become new 2 Corinthians 5:17-18

 

[Marumorose]

For God so loved the world He gave his one and only Son, that whosoever believes in Him will have everlasting life. - John 3:16 (No mention of baptism)

If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. - Romans 10:9 (No mention of baptism)

Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. - Mark 16:16 (Notice baptism is completely useless without faith.)

Now, on the last verse, it appears baptism is a requirement. However, the emphasis on faith in it shows us all baptism does not save anyone. Why did John baptize people before the Holy Spirit came down? Why do so many Christians believe if you are not baptized in water, you are blocked from heaven?

Why was Jesus Christ baptised before he received the Holy Spirit? What is good for Jesus Christ is best for us don't you think? If he was baptised then why do we think that we do not need baptism?
Baptism is for the forgiveness of sins and the Holy Spirit cannot dwell in you until your sins are forgiven through baptism. Baptism as a baby Do Not Count because children don't have any sins. AND you will not enter into heaven unless you are baptised! Being reborn include baptism
John 3:5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit.
May God Bless You

 

[GodLovesCats]

Why was Jesus Christ baptised before he received the Holy Spirit? What is good for Jesus Christ is best for us don't you think? If he was baptised then why do we think that we do not need baptism?

Jesus told everyone to be baptized. He never said the purpose of baptism is to receive the Holy Spirit.

It is exactly the same as Jesus commanding everyone to partake in the Lord's Supper: as a memorial, not to be saved.

Baptism is for the forgiveness of sins and the Holy Spirit cannot dwell in you until your sins are forgiven through baptism. Baptism as a baby Do Not Count because children don't have any sins. AND you will not enter into heaven unless you are baptized! Being reborn include baptism.

John 3:5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit.

Of course the "water" is amniotic fluid, not plain old H2O. That verse does not include the word "again" so the word "born" can only mean your physical birth. He did not say "baptized in" water either. So you can't say he meant being baptized in a lake or river. Show me a verse where he explicitly said to be born again you must be baptized in water.

 

[Eloy Craft]

This is exactly right and for this God would become a respect of person not to do it to all!

The thief drank the same cup Jesus drank. Jesus called this cup a Baptism. Not for everyone.

believe Jesus was speaking of natural birth... you say doesn't all come that way~ not cloning and it is in this the anti-christ will in fact deceive with the mortal wound...

Jesus was speaking about water. A symbol of cleansing. Jesus incorporated John's Baptism into His own. John's Baptism was for repentance because he lived a righteous life of penance overcoming temptation.
If it were natural birth there would be no reason to mention it as a requirement for salvation.

 

[Eloy Craft]

Baptism as a baby Do Not Count because children don't have any sins.

You're right that a baby has no personal sin. Even though, we are all born in sin.
If it were not so we would not inherit death but be the cause of it.

 

[disciple Clint]

The thief drank the same cup Jesus drank. Jesus called this cup a Baptism. Not for everyone.


Jesus was speaking about water. A symbol of cleansing. Jesus incorporated John's Baptism into His own. John's Baptism was for repentance because he lived a righteous life of penance overcoming temptation.
If it were natural birth there would be no reason to mention it as a requirement for salvation.

Why do you say that? How can we compare the death of a guilty human do to his crimes and the death of Jesus who is not just human but also divine and his death is for the sins of others, He is innocent.

 

[ralliann]

Why was Jesus Christ baptised before he received the Holy Spirit? What is good for Jesus Christ is best for us don't you think? If he was baptised then why do we think that we do not need baptism?
Baptism is for the forgiveness of sins and the Holy Spirit cannot dwell in you until your sins are forgiven through baptism. Baptism as a baby Do Not Count because children don't have any sins. AND you will not enter into heaven unless you are baptised! Being reborn include baptism
John 3:5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit.
May God Bless You

You make an interesting point about Jesus being baptized. I was to fulfill all righteousness. So, if it was fulfilling righteousness for him, what about us?

 

[Eloy Craft]

Why do you say that? How can we compare the death of a guilty human do to his crimes and the death of Jesus who is not just human but also divine and his death is for the sins of others, He is innocent.

I don't mean the thief's death was a sacrifice. The thief drank the cup prepared for him by the Father.

The Request of James and John.
Matthew 20
20 Then the mother of the sons of Zebedee approached him with her sons and did him homage, wishing to ask him for something. 21 He said to her, “What do you wish?” She answered him, “Command that these two sons of mine sit, one at your right and the other at your left, in your kingdom.” 22 Jesus said in reply, “You do not know what you are asking. Can you drink the cup that I am going to drink?” They said to him, “We can.” 23 He replied, “My cup you will indeed drink, but to sit at my right and at my left [, this] is not mine to give but is for those for whom it has been prepared by my Father.” 24

Jesus makes it plain that the Father has prepared two people to sit at His right and left and they will both drink the cup He is about to drink.
Golgatha is the entrance to His Kingdom. Death unto life is Baptism.

 

[ralliann]

You're right that a baby has no personal sin. Even though, we are all born in sin.
If it were not so we would not inherit death but be the cause of it.

And a baby does not baptize himself, anymore than they repent. It is something done to them. Like circumcision was for Jews.

 

[Eloy Craft]

And a baby does not baptize himself. It is something done to them. Like circumcision was for Jews.

Indeed. I don't get your point.

 

[ralliann]

Indeed. I don't get your point.

It is not a work of faith by the baby. So why does a parent do it?

Ge 18:19 For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him. Abraham did not just circumcise his son's, he circumcised his servants also. I believe it is about the parent being faithful to raise up their household in the faith.

 

[Eloy Craft]

is not a work of faith by the baby. So why does a parent do it?

The faith of the recipient of a supernatural healing isn't necessary. Remember the Centurian who's son was healed? The son's faith wasn't required. Jesus was impressed with the Centurian's faith. There are many works God did on behalf of parents and friends. It was their faith that won God's grace not the person who received it.

 

[Valletta]

It is not a work of faith by the baby. So why does a parent do it?

Ge 18:19 For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him. Abraham did not just circumcise his son's, he circumcised his servants also. I believe it is about the parent being faithful to raise up their household in the faith.

Baptism replaced circumcision. As with circumcision, the faith of the parents is enough.

 

[Danthemailman]

In regards to John 3:5, there are those who would argue that Jesus mentions "living water" in John 4:10, 14; 7:37-39 and in John 7:38-39, we read - "He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water. But this He spoke concerning the Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the source of living water and spiritual cleansing.

If "water" is arbitrarily defined as baptism, then we could just as justifiably say, "Out of his heart will flow rivers of living baptism" in John 7:38. If this sounds ridiculous, it is no more so than the idea that water baptism is the source or the means of becoming born again.

Yet there are still others who would argue that "water" is used in the Bible as an emblem of the word of God, and in such uses it is associated with cleansing or washing. (John 15:3; Ephesians 5:26) When we are born again, the Holy Spirit begets new life, so that we are said to become "partakers of the divine nature." (2 Peter 1:4) The new birth is brought to pass through "incorruptible seed, by the word of God, which lives and abides forever" (I Peter 1:23) and the Holy Spirit accomplishes the miracle of regeneration. (Titus 3:5)

So to automatically read "baptism" into John 3:5 simply because it mentions "water" is unwarranted.

 

[ralliann]

The faith of the recipient of a supernatural healing isn't necessary. Remember the Centurian who's son was healed? The son's faith wasn't required. Jesus was impressed with the Centurian's faith. There are many works God did on behalf of parents and friends. It was their faith that won God's grace not the person who received it.

And there is this as well.
The rite of marriage....
Believing spouse sanctifies the unbelieving spouse....making children clean.
1 cor 7:12 But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.
13 And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him.
14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.

Simply getting Married does this for the unbelieving, with regards to spouses, which in turn affects the Children.
Baptism of your children can sanctify them as well I believe. Many Churches have ceremonies of dedication. Baptism is the original rite.