How can baptism be required for salvation?

[Doug Brents]

So you will not accept what a church pastor says unless he is quoting Scripture? That is not acceptable in any church.

If a preacher/minister of the Word preaches a sermon that does not include Scripture references, and is contrary to what Scripture says, then yes, his sermon should not be accepted. That is fully acceptable, and even necessary, in the Church.

If baptism itself is what saves people, explain why millions of people who were baptized during infancy do not believe Jesus is God and will never enter His kingdom.

Infant baptism is completely worthless for salvation, because the faith of the one being baptized is required (not the faith of the parents of the one being baptized). If a child/infant does not believe the Gospel (Rom 10:14), then being immersed into water only gets them wet (and maybe mad). Mark 16:16 says that those who do not believe in Christ will not be saved.

I am horrible at remembering Bible references, but do know with absolute certainty some verses are about not needing water baptism for salvation.

That is not true at all. In fact, it is the exact opposite. 1 Pet 3:21 says clearly that water baptism is what saves us (the point in time at which salvation occurs). Matt 28: 19 is clear that baptism is an act that we (humans) must perform, not something that is done by the Holy Spirit to us. Mark 16:16 says that those who believe in Christ and are baptized will be saved. Col 2:11-14 says that it is during baptism that the Holy Spirit cuts our sins from us, and unites us with Jesus' death and resurrection.

 

[bbbbbbb]

And that Greek word BURIED / SYNTHAPTO , G4916 is in the Greek text in the KJV , ESU , and YLT

dan p

It is, indeed. If one chooses to take it literally, and link it to circumcision, then one can conclude that all Jewish male children were killed and buried following their circumcision.

In fact, if one takes it without any connection to circumcision, one could understand that the early Christians drowned the new believers, burying them in a watery grave as was done by the Catholic Church to Anabaptists during the Reformation.

That is the problem with metaphors and allegories. They are not intended to be understood literally. However, perverse folks fail to understand that and read into them meanings which were never intended. A classic example would be a man taking a loaf of bread and saying, "Take, eat. This is my body which is broken for you."

 

[Valletta]

Infant baptism is completely worthless for salvation, because the faith of the one being baptized is required (not the faith of the parents of the one being baptized).

Baptism replaced circumcision, as with the circumcision, the faith of the parents is enough. As the Bible says, we are saved through Baptism.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Baptism replaced circumcision, as with the circumcision, the faith of the parents is enough. As the Bible says, we are saved through Baptism.

As I stated previously, in circumcision faith is not even a remote factor nor is the concept of the forgiveness of sins through the rite nor of eternal salvation in heaven. Circumcision was given to Israel as a physical identification of all males as being Jewish.

If you want to equate circumcision with baptism, then you will need to baptize only males because only males were, or can be, circumcised.

 

[Valletta]

As I stated previously, in circumcision faith is not even a remote factor nor is the concept of the forgiveness of sins through the rite nor of eternal salvation in heaven. Circumcision was given to Israel as a physical identification of all males as being Jewish.

If you want to equate circumcision with baptism, then you will need to baptize only males because only males were, or can be, circumcised.

It's not a matter of what I want to equate, it is God's will. God's Word tells us we are saved through Baptism. We have been over this before. The old is fulfilled in the new. As to the forgiveness of sins, St. John Chrysostom said:

“Do not be surprised that I call martyrdom a baptism, for here too the Spirit comes in great haste and there is the taking away of sins and a wonderful and marvelous cleansing of the soul, and just as those being baptized are washed in water, so too those being martyred are washed in their own blood” (Panegyric on St. Lucian 2 [A.D. 387]).

 

[Doug Brents]

Baptism replaced circumcision, as with the circumcision, the faith of the parents is enough. As the Bible says, we are saved through Baptism.

Umm, No. "He who believes and is baptized will be saved." Not, he whose parents believe...". Circumcision was done when the child was 8 days old, and then only to the males. Baptism is for male and female, but only for those who are ready to exhibit their own faith.

 

[bbbbbbb]

It's not a matter of what I want to equate, it is God's will. God's Word tells us we are saved through Baptism. We have been over this before. The old is fulfilled in the new. As to the forgiveness of sins, St. John Chrysostom said:

“Do not be surprised that I call martyrdom a baptism, for here too the Spirit comes in great haste and there is the taking away of sins and a wonderful and marvelous cleansing of the soul, and just as those being baptized are washed in water, so too those being martyred are washed in their own blood” (Panegyric on St. Lucian 2 [A.D. 387]).

God's word never said that anyone was saved through circumcision. In fact, it was such a big issue that the first church council was held in Jerusalem, as recorded in Acts 15. Not once was baptism even mentioned. It was all about the necessity for circumcision for Gentiles. If your premise was true then the conclusion would have been that circumcision had been replace by baptism. However, the conclusion was that Gentiles did not to be circumcised and they ought not to eat things offered to idols or strangled.

Thus, it is absurd to equate baptism with circumcision.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Umm, No. "He who believes and is baptized will be saved." Not, he whose parents believe...". Circumcision was done when the child was 8 days old, and then only to the males. Baptism is for male and female, but only for those who are ready to exhibit their own faith.

Quite true. Thank you.

 

[Dan Perez]

For God so loved the world He gave his one and only Son, that whosoever believes in Him will have everlasting life. - John 3:16 (No mention of baptism)

If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. - Romans 10:9 (No mention of baptism)

Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. - Mark 16:16 (Notice baptism is completely useless without faith.)

Now, on the last verse, it appears baptism is a requirement. However, the emphasis on faith in it shows us all baptism does not save anyone. Why did John baptize people before the Holy Spirit came down? Why do so many Christians believe if you are not baptized in water, you are blocked from heaven?

Does Mark 16:16 have to have faith and is there a verse for both ?

dan p