Homosexuality & Preference Options

[CrystalDragon]

I personally believe we are born into sin. It's passed down through man's seed, right? So, we're already condemned...each of us...the moment we're born. It's not works that save us either. We ALL need Christ.

I tend to think we all have that deep, dark thing we would never tell anyone about. Whatever it is. If you've known someone who was a pathological liar, they can't seem to help it. When you talk to murderers, it's an impulsive need and they can't seem to help it. Thieves can't stop stealing. Gluttons don't stop eating. On and on. Not that they "can't", as we are all in control of our lives, but these are things that beset us and we struggle with it.

Some people struggle with one sin more than other.

I have a severe problem with the born into sin thing. So if a baby dies they're going to cruelly roast in a burning fire for all eternity just for existing?

 

[Tetra]

I find #2 to be a very likely scenario, actually. I'd say a high percentage of lesbians fall into #2 (definitely more than a few people of my own acquaintance).

I'm my experience within these communities, it seems to be a sad reality for many. It's also often overlooked and dismissed by many Christians unfortunately.

 

[seashale76]

I have a severe problem with the born into sin thing. So if a baby dies they're going to cruelly roast in a burning fire for all eternity just for existing?

Orthodoxy for the win on this one. This is not an Orthodox belief (being born into sin). Original sin refers to the first sin of Adam and Eve. We do not agree with the Western view that we are also 'guilty' of this sin. We understand that all of us have inherited the consequence of this sin, which is death, but we are not guilty of Adam and Eve's sin ourselves and we don't inherit that guilt. Nor do we see fallen humanity as being inherently depraved. We are cleansed and restored at our Baptism.

 

[Open Heart]

But that wouldn't alter rates of homosexuality, just homosexual activity. But anyhoo...

There are three reasons for homosexuality.
1. Some forms of homosexuality go all the way back to the womb. Homosexuality may be due to things like too much or too little of certain hormones at specific times during fetal development. Laws are not going to change the frequency of these.

2. Some forms of homosexuality may be due to environmental reasons. For example, a girl may be molested as a child by a man, and grow up with an aversion to sex with men, turning to sex with women as an alternative expression of her urges. Laws are not going to change the frequency of these.

3. Some forms of homosexuality may be developed tastes made possible by the openness and encouragement of a given culture. For example, a woman who is sexually amorphous but who has identified as heterosexual throughout her high school years, goes off to college where she is encouraged to experiment sexually. After trying it both ways for some time, she decides she prefers women, and self identifies as a lesbian. Laws are VERY MUCH going to change the frequency of these.

Again, I'm not in favor of having such laws. What I would like to see, though, is an end to the media indoctrination that its all just as good and you could marry a boy OR a girl, or maybe never marry at all but just have free love and shuffle your kids from boyfriend to boyfriend. I'm very much aware that as human beings we all fall short of the ideal. But I think the media should give us the ideal to strive for: a man and a woman married, raising their family together.

 

[Armoured]

Again, I'm not in favor of having such laws. What I would like to see, though, is an end to the media indoctrination that its all just as good and you could marry a boy OR a girl, or maybe never marry at all but just have free love and shuffle your kids from boyfriend to boyfriend. I'm very much aware that as human beings we all fall short of the ideal. But I think the media should give us the ideal to strive for: a man and a woman married, raising their family together.

Who says that should be "the ideal to strive for"? The media shows people what they want to see. Otherwise they go out of business. If the media is showing alternative family scenarios to the Cunninghams from Happy Days, it's because people want a broader representation, not because the media is trying to push one.

 

[Open Heart]

Who says that should be "the ideal to strive for"? The media shows people what they want to see. Otherwise they go out of business. If the media is showing alternative family scenarios to the Cunninghams from Happy Days, it's because people want a broader representation, not because the media is trying to push one.

So you think some other ideal should be striven for? What ideal would that be?

The media caters to our basest desires. The sponsers buy whatever is getting the most viewers and people will view whatever is sexy, gossipy and voyeuristic, violent, shows food, and has a lot of bells and whistles. Thus we are inundated with rapidly decaying "News," game shows, awful reality shows, and dramas that show gratuitous violence and soft inappropriate content. The more we see it, the worse our tastes become -- it's a downward spiral. And it does effect how we behave in real life. For example, it used to be that someone felt at the end of their rope, they just committed suicide; but TODAY, they take out their whole family too, and sometimes the office.

The media is much too powerful an impacter of the culture to allow it to be dominated by money and our base desires. I'm not sure how it can be managed differently, but something needs to be done (if for no other reason than to stop the proliferation of mindless reality TV).

 

[Armoured]

So you think some other ideal should be striven for? What ideal would that be?

I didn't make any claims about any ideal. I asked you to support YOUR claim. Don't try to turn it back on me just because you can't answer the question.

The media caters to our basest desires. The sponsers buy whatever is getting the most viewers and people will view whatever is sexy, gossipy and voyeuristic, violent, shows food, and has a lot of bells and whistles. Thus we are inundated with rapidly decaying "News," game shows, awful reality shows, and dramas that show gratuitous violence and soft inappropriate content. The more we see it, the worse our tastes become -- it's a downward spiral. And it does effect how we behave in real life. For example, it used to be that someone felt at the end of their rope, they just committed suicide; but TODAY, they take out their whole family too, and sometimes the office.

Murder suicides are not new, the 24 hour news cycle that over reports them is, and the population base is larger, so there are more instances

The media is much too powerful an impacter of the culture to allow it to be dominated by money and our base desires. I'm not sure how it can be managed differently, but something needs to be done (if for no other reason than to stop the proliferation of mindless reality TV).

And it's just coincidence that the "ideal" the media should be promoting just happens to look like your personal preferences?

 

[Open Heart]

I didn't make any claims about any ideal. I asked you to support YOUR claim. Don't try to turn it back on me just because you can't answer the question.

A hetero marriage (either monogamous or polygamous) in order to have children has been the ideal of every culture down through time that we know of until now. There is of course great variation within that parameter, but there you have the basic ideal. You need to have a very good reason to question it. What is your very good reason?

 

[Open Heart]

Murder suicides are not new, the 24 hour news cycle that over reports them is, and the population base is larger, so there are more instances

There are many more per capita.

 

[Open Heart]

And it's just coincidence that the "ideal" the media should be promoting just happens to look like your personal preferences?

And it's just coincidence that you think the media doesn't need to promote any different ideal AND you are happy with the way things are?

Are we done asking meaningless questions?

 

[Armoured]

A hetero marriage (either monogamous or polygamous) in order to have children has been the ideal of every culture down through time that we know of until now. There is of course great variation within that parameter, but there you have the basic ideal. You need to have a very good reason to question it. What is your very good reason?

Some people are happier in different configurations.

 

[Armoured]

And it's just coincidence that you think the media doesn't need to promote any different ideal AND you are happy with the way things are?

Are we done asking meaningless questions?

Where'd I say I was happy the way things are? I just don't see homosexuals as some sort of nefarious, plotting, cabal, bent on the destruction of all that's good and pure.

They want a fair go. I don't see what's unreasonable about that.

 

[Armoured]

There are many more per capita.

You have a citation for this, of course?

 

[Open Heart]

Some people are happier in different configurations.

And you aren't worried that by pulling out the unseemly thread you won't unravel the sweater?

 

[Armoured]

And you aren't worried that by pulling out the unseemly thread you won't unravel the sweater?

Not really. Why should it? Seriously, give us any reason to suspect that social acceptance of homosexuality will lead to anything more dire than social acceptance of homosexuality?

 

[FireDragon76]

No, it's about 1-2% of men and 1-2% of women. Most people don't realize how small the minority groups actually are in the United States. Did you know that African Americans only account for 13% of the population? Asians only 5%?

In countries that are more accepting of gays and less religious (like the UK), the number of openly gay or bisexual individuals exceeds 4 or 5 percent of the population. The US seems to be trending in that direction in terms of the percentage of the population that identifies as openly gay.

 

[Open Heart]

Not really. Why should it?

When something works, don't fix it.

 

[Armoured]

When something works, don't fix it.

The status quo doesn't wok for homosexuals, though.

 

[Open Heart]

The status quo doesn't wok for homosexuals, though.

It works for society, the community.

 

[Armoured]

It works for society, the community.

Not the homosexual members of that community.