Here is why the saints cannot ignore the Commandments of God - not even the TEN

[bugkiller]

Define SIN and tell me if people have stopped sinning.

They are not set free from something everyone continues to do. That is what grace is for, when we sin, we repent.

You simply have no grasp of what Romans says.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

1 John 3:4 - "sin IS transgression of the LAW"
Romans 3 "ALL have sinned"
Rom 3:19-21 "ALL the World accountable to God as sinners"

James 2
8 If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you do well; 9 but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty.

James says it is based on the authority of "HE WHO SAID" and "HE who SAID one of the TEN Commandments - is also the "HE WHO SAID" - the other nine.

So your point is....

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

What I notice is that the Ten-Commandments-denying doctrines you promote - are so obviously and transparently flawed that even your OWN pro-sunday scholars refute them.

It just does not get any easier than that.

Bob what you say is outright slander. The group you refer to as mine is only brought up by you. They're not sourced by me to make a valid argument on this board and neither are any other religious current or past century leaders.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Because a few of them are also anti-God's-Commandments and they know that the majority of even pro-Sunday scholarship refutes such fluff.

Hogwash. They preach nor practice no such thing.

bugkiller

 

[klutedavid]

Indeed it is pretty easy to see how loving God is connected to keeping His Commandments.

"IF you Love Me KEEP My Commandments" John 14:16
"Love Me and KEEK My Commandments" Ex 20:6
'Saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

1 John 5
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and His Commandments are not grievous.

1John 2:
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

Hello Bob.

Below is one of your posts.

You have been taught to substitute 'ten commandments', every time you see the word 'commandments'.

Have a look over the abbreviated print of this post of yours.

Indeed it is pretty easy to see how loving God is connected to keeping His Commandments.
"IF you Love Me KEEP My Commandments" John 14:16
"Love Me and KEEK My Commandments" Ex 20:6
'Saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and His Commandments are not grievous.
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Now Bob, may I ask you for just one verse in the New Testament, that actually states that Gentiles must obey the
ten commandments. If you do not provide one single verse, then I am forced to conclude, that you follow some
traditional teaching. A traditional teaching that finds no support from the scripture.

 

[klutedavid]

The whole circumcision debate was about saying Circumcision is mandatory to be saved, when God told them to circumcise their hearts. What good was physical circumcisions if they had rotten hearts and could care less about God.

Hello Saan.

You need to read the text before making a claim.

The whole circumcision debate was about saying Circumcision is mandatory to be saved,
when God told them to circumcise their hearts. What good was physical circumcisions if they had
rotten hearts and could care less about God.

Actually you have only partly referenced the topic of the Jerusalem debate.

Acts 15
5 But some believers who belonged to the sect of the Pharisees stood up and said, “It is necessary for
them to be circumcised and ordered to keep the law of Moses.”

The debate was not just about circumcision, the debate directly involved ordering the Gentiles, to obey
the law of Moses.

You might be interested to know, circumcision was introduced to Abraham and is of vital importance.

Genesis 17:13
A servant who is born in your house or who is bought with your money shall surely be circumcised;
thus shall My covenant be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.

Circumcision is an eternal sign of the eternal covenant, that God established with Abraham and his offspring.

The sabbath was also an eternal commandment given to Israel.

Exodus 31:16 (King James Bible)
Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations,
for a perpetual covenant.

So Saan, if you promote the weekly sabbath (eternal), you must also promote the rite of circumcision (eternal).

You cannot promote the one without the other, they are both eternal obligations.

There is no way out of this unless, you now the scripture very well.

 

[SAAN]

You simply have no grasp of what Romans says.

bugkiller

And neither do you, because you take much of the book out of context.

 

[SAAN]

Hello Saan.

You need to read the text before making a claim.

Actually you have only partly referenced the topic of the Jerusalem debate.

Acts 15
5 But some believers who belonged to the sect of the Pharisees stood up and said, “It is necessary for
them to be circumcised and ordered to keep the law of Moses.”

The debate was not just about circumcision, the debate directly involved ordering the Gentiles, to obey
the law of Moses.

You might be interested to know, circumcision was introduced to Abraham and is of vital importance.

Genesis 17:13
A servant who is born in your house or who is bought with your money shall surely be circumcised;
thus shall My covenant be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.

Circumcision is an eternal sign of the eternal covenant, that God established with Abraham and his offspring.

The sabbath was also an eternal commandment given to Israel.

Exodus 31:16 (King James Bible)
Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations,
for a perpetual covenant.

So Saan, if you promote the weekly sabbath (eternal), you must also promote the rite of circumcision (eternal).

You cannot promote the one without the other, they are both eternal obligations.

There is no way out of this unless, you now the scripture very well.

So why just stop at the Sabbath then and not the other commandments as well.

1. You shall have no other gods before Me.
2. You shall not make idols.
3. You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
4. Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.

Why just #4. Jesus never talked about #3, so does that make it okay.

 

[Sophrosyne]

The whole circumcision debate was about saying Circumcision is mandatory to be saved, when God told them to circumcise their hearts. What good was physical circumcisions if they had rotten hearts and could care less about God.

Nonsense, the debate was about the ALREADY SAVED Christians having to endure peer pressure from Jews trying to get them to keep the Law of Moses....... your nonsensical logic has no merit.... why would the Christians make edicts on non believers? The Bible itself doesn't say you have to be circumcised BEFORE you are saved however I do know some of Law promoters here thinks God will "take back" salvation if one rejects keeping certain commandments that are from the Mosaic Law.

 

[SAAN]

Nonsense, the debate was about the ALREADY SAVED Christians having to endure peer pressure from Jews trying to get them to keep the Law of Moses....... your nonsensical logic has no merit.... why would the Christians make edicts on non believers? The Bible itself doesn't say you have to be circumcised BEFORE you are saved however I do know some of Law promoters here thinks God will "take back" salvation if one rejects keeping certain commandments that are from the Mosaic Law.

The issue was about the circumcision party Jews trying to make circumcision mandatory for salvation and say they arent saved if they were not circumcised, it wasnt about trying to force the entire Torah down their throats. Even Acts 15:21 showed the gentiles would learn more each week as they went to the Synagogue every Sabbath.

In regards to that, the bible is quite clear the Sabbath isnt a salvation issue, worse case is you would loose some rewards for not keeping it, but no one is going to hell for not keeping the Sabbath. Not sure if that is a big belief of SDA's but I do hear it often.

 

[Sophrosyne]

The issue was about the circumcision party Jews trying to make circumcision mandatory for salvation and say they arent saved if they were not circumcised, it wasnt about trying to force the entire Torah down their throats. Even Acts 15:21 showed the gentiles would learn more each week as they went to the Synagogue every Sabbath.

In regards to that, the bible is quite clear the Sabbath isnt a salvation issue, worse case is you would loose some rewards for not keeping it, but no one is going to hell for not keeping the Sabbath. Not sure if that is a big belief of SDA's but I do hear it often.

I don't see that in scripture at all, I see the Jewish "Christians" trying to circumcise Gentile Christians... and these Gentile Christians were ALREADY SAVED. The Bible does state that it is about Mosaic Law in that section too. As far as the SDA's.... they DO consider it MANDATORY that you keep the Sabbath as an integral part of salvation their prophetess states this in her writings as far as I've read. As far as going to the synagogs on Sabbath it makes sense if they were interested in learning about God that is the first place to start because you have to remember Jesus himself commanded the apostles to go to the JEW ONLY, and Paul always went FIRST to the JEWS and that would be at.... guess where? Syangogs. Until churches were created and teachers and pastors and scrolls of scripture were in these "groups" of believers the Synagogs often were where even Christians were to be found as they were most often JEWS especially in Israel where Christians were actively sought after and persecuted.

Simply put there is no proof Gentiles were at the synagogs on the Sabbath actively "keeping" the Sabbath itself, just as people who decide to check out our court system go attend a trial that doesn't make them automatically lawyers, judges, or jury they could easily be AUDIENCE.

 

[bugkiller]

And neither do you, because you take much of the book out of context.

Oh. Now please point out what you think I take out of context.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

So why just stop at the Sabbath then and not the other commandments as well.

1. You shall have no other gods before Me.
2. You shall not make idols.
3. You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
4. Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.

Why just #4. Jesus never talked about #3, so does that make it okay.

Just tired old SDA rhetoric.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

The issue was about the circumcision party Jews trying to make circumcision mandatory for salvation and say they arent saved if they were not circumcised, it wasnt about trying to force the entire Torah down their throats. Even Acts 15:21 showed the gentiles would learn more each week as they went to the Synagogue every Sabbath.

In regards to that, the bible is quite clear the Sabbath isnt a salvation issue, worse case is you would loose some rewards for not keeping it, but no one is going to hell for not keeping the Sabbath. Not sure if that is a big belief of SDA's but I do hear it often.

What?!

bugkiller

 

[klutedavid]

So why just stop at the Sabbath then and not the other commandments as well.

1. You shall have no other gods before Me.
2. You shall not make idols.
3. You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
4. Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.

Why just #4. Jesus never talked about #3, so does that make it okay.

Hello Saan.

You need to first explain yourself.

Genesis 21:4
And Abraham circumcised his son Isaac when he was eight days old, as God
had commanded him.

You cannot dismiss one commandment, then proclaim another commandment?
That is beyond my understanding Saan. You either accept both commandments,
or you reject both commandments. Your position is entirely untenable.

 

[SAAN]

Oh. Now please point out what you think I take out of context.

bugkiller

Go read 90% of your posts and you will see for yourself

 

[SAAN]

Just tired old SDA rhetoric.

bugkiller

Im not a SDA. Im non denominatioanl and I go to church on Sunday.

 

[SAAN]

Hello Saan.

You need to first explain yourself.

Genesis 21:4
And Abraham circumcised his son Isaac when he was eight days old, as God
had commanded him.

You cannot dismiss one commandment, then proclaim another commandment?
That is beyond my understanding Saan. You either accept both commandments,
or you reject both commandments. Your position is entirely untenable.

So are you saying if you are not physically circumcised, you cant be saved?

 

[klutedavid]

So are you saying if you are not physically circumcised, you cant be saved?

Hello Saan.

Salvation is a free gift from God to all who believe in Jesus Christ, this
truth is above and beyond, any requirement of the Mt Sinai law.

Circumcision on the other hand, is a Mt Sinai commandment and the sabbath is
also a Mt Sinai commandment. You cannot take one commandment from the
Mt Sinai law, then disregard another commandment from that same law. If you
are under the law Saan, which it seems you are, then you must follow all the
commandments given in the law. You cannot pick and choose which commandments
to follow.

No one in the history of the law given at Mt Sinai, was ever free to pick and
choose from among the commandments. You are either under the law or you
are not under the law. If you are under the ten commandments, then you are
most definitely under all the commandments of Mt Sinai.

If you use the commandments as a guide to what constitutes sin, then you are
not under the this Mt Sinai law.

An example Saan, I am under the commandment to abstain from fornication,
I am not under the Mt Sinai commandment, 'thou shall not commit adultery'.
There is a vast difference between these two commandments. One is from
the Mt Sinai law, the other is the Lord's specific commandment to the Gentiles.

I do not pursue the Mt Sinai commandments (the law), for the purpose of hopefully
measuring up to God's requirements (self righteousness). I follow the Lord's commandments
strictly, because I am already saved (declared righteous) in Christ.

 

[bugkiller]

Go read 90% of your posts and you will see for yourself

That's exacrly what I thought. You won't because you can't. hehehehe

bugkiller