What do you mean?
You mean you can't carry on a conversation. I didn't see a single thing about Hosea 2:23 in your posts you claim to discuss.What do you mean?
bugkiller
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What do you mean?
You mean you can't carry on a conversation. I didn't see a single thing about Hosea 2:23 in your posts you claim to discuss.What do you mean?
Thank you.Nice testimony.
More what I'm wondering about is this bolded part of the commandment - But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
"within thy gates" means under some control either directly or indirectly. What is thy servant, either man or woman? What does cattle do and what do we use instead of cattle to do?
bugkiller
I know! And then he acts like we're the bad guys because we are genuinely confused by what he's even talking about. He did the same thing to me and I wasn't even talking to him, as if I'm going to remember and know instantly that he's referring to something I said 12 posts ago to an entirely different person, with next to no context about what he's talking about.Yet another claim without explanation. Care to elaborate?
I think you misunderstand "curse" in the way it is often used in Scripture. I don't believe Scripture teaches that God deliberately "curses" those who "hate" him. In fact, the psalmists often complained that God prospered the wicked! And somewhere it says God sends the rain and sun on "good" and "bad" alike.My first question when reading your reply is how are you able to see and quote something I edited out not long after writing this? But I'll ignor that for now.
Just to clarify, your last comment is wrong, I never said God hated me or anyone else. God does not hate anyone and the curse I quoted was that God curses those who hate Him, not that He hates them or anyone else.
While I appreciate your input, I would like to concentrate on one thing. The verse I quoted says God curses those that hate Him to the third and fourth generation. What I am looking for is a biblical argument that this does not apply to believers.
I for some reason quoted Hosea 14, don't know why. It is what it is though. The entire book of Hosea is only talking to the house of Israel though was my point, as sheep said Hosea 2 was talking about people who aren't Israel being saved.You mean you can't carry on a conversation. I didn't see a single thing about Hosea 2:23 in your posts you claim to discuss.
bugkiller
Could you explain then, please, what Paul means i Rom 11:24 - For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?It's suggested you read what the Scripture says in Romans 11 and not what you want it to say. The Jew must also be graft into the Root. If they're not they reject salvation provided by their and our Messiah/Redeemer.
Jn 13:34 should answer your question. As for what Jesus taught, I also like LK 6:31. How either of these verses permit sin is beyond me. How either of those verses promote the law is also beyond me.
No all can red the thread and forum for themselves. The record bears witness by itself.
bugkiller
I know! And then he acts like we're the bad guys because we are genuinely confused by what he's even talking about. He did the same thing to me and I wasn't even talking to him, as if I'm going to remember and know instantly that he's referring to something I said 12 posts ago to an entirely different person, with next to no context about what he's talking about.
If law keeping is required that is being legal and legalistic. Simply by not violating the law,
Since you appear to not understand discussing a specific religious sect won't be of value.
Yeah the last post is ancient history here.I know! And then he acts like we're the bad guys because we are genuinely confused by what he's even talking about. He did the same thing to me and I wasn't even talking to him, as if I'm going to remember and know instantly that he's referring to something I said 12 posts ago to an entirely different person, with next to no context about what he's talking about.
Guessing you mean only on the sabbaths or feast days.Thank you.
Well, the "within thy gates:" portion, referred to the fact that they were at that time, and were going to be living in the promised land. So, for as long as they were in that land, everything in the promised land was to be resting. Nothing was to be working, which means that they couldn't hire a slave or a servant to do a task they really want to get done, but wouldn't do themselves. So basically, it's saying, all, even your cattle are to rest. This rest is for everyone and everything. To reject it, is to first be at enmity against God - therefore not loving Him, and whoever you make work, you're not loving them, because that rest was for them as well.
I'm positive you did. This is of interest to me.Above I did my best to give an answer for what I thought you were getting at, as well as giving a bit of insight into why He commanded it that way. There were people who early on after the Exodus would try to push the limits and bounds of what God found acceptable, because it wasn't yet written on their hearts. He was their Elohim, but He wasn't in their hearts as much as what He rescued them from was. This is why all throughout scripture, the men of great faith Moses, Joshua, Samuel, David, Abraham Isaac and Jacob, etc, are men that all loved God before even themselves in some cases. This is what it looks like and means, to have Him and His laws and statues written on your heart. To love Him, and to desire to serve Him above anything else. Not because you have to, no far from it. No one has to if they don't want to. I obey Him as best as I can not because I have to, because I want to. Will I be perfect in this obedience? No, I mean I'll slip up in some ways, but that's what Jesus gave Himself for. To cover where I am imperfect, and to give me the chance to rejoin His chosen.
Maybe you don't know what the little back button is in a quoted post. You guys seem to have to many conversation going on on to recall anything. I don't find it necessary to repeat what you said to respond. If you can't figure out what I'm saying ask. That doesn't include you can't remember.I know! And then he acts like we're the bad guys because we are genuinely confused by what he's even talking about. He did the same thing to me and I wasn't even talking to him, as if I'm going to remember and know instantly that he's referring to something I said 12 posts ago to an entirely different person, with next to no context about what he's talking about.
I was murdered by discouragement about everything from my dad. At my age it still effects me.I think you misunderstand "curse" in the way it is often used in Scripture. I don't believe Scripture teaches that God deliberately "curses" those who "hate" him. In fact, the psalmists often complained that God prospered the wicked! And somewhere it says God sends the rain and sun on "good" and "bad" alike.
When someone chooses to live their lives apart from God, they are choosing, by default, to align with the devil, with evil. And evil brings it's own curse. We reap what we sow. Or as the old saying goes, "When you play with fire, you get burned."
The "curse" you feel you are subject to because of your dad's attitude towards God, is limited to how you let his attitude, or the fear of it, affect your thinking. Scripture is clear that God does not punish the son for the sins of the father, or vice versa.
Eze 18:20 - The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
Here is a promise for you whenever the devil tempts you to worry about your dad's "curse":
Isa 263 - Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is stayed on thee: because he trusteth in thee.
Thanks for your explanation. My take is that what you say is there's no salvation for anyone outside of Israel. That position doesn't coincide with the Gospel of John, the command at the end of Matthew, or the historical facts found in Acts.I for some reason quoted Hosea 14, don't know why. It is what it is though. The entire book of Hosea is only talking to the house of Israel though was my point, as sheep said Hosea 2 was talking about people who aren't Israel being saved.
Out of context Hosea 2:23 looks like it's talking about people that aren't Israel, for sure, but my point was that Hosea is only talking to and about Israel. I'll prove my point now:
Some context. This is God speaking with Hosea. Hosea is having children with Gomer his wife, and God is telling Hosea what to name his children, and the names are according to what He plans to do with Israel.
Hosea 1:6-10 -
6 And she conceived again, and bare a daughter. And God said unto him, Call her name Loruhamah: for I will no more have mercy upon the house of Israel; but I will utterly take them away.
7 But I will have mercy upon the house of Judah, and will save them by the Lord their God, and will not save them by bow, nor by sword, nor by battle, by horses, nor by horsemen.
8 Now when she had weaned Loruhamah, she conceived, and bare a son.
9 Then said God, Call his name Loammi: for ye are not my people, and I will not be your God.
10 Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.
So with the birth of the daughter of Hosea and his son, God said that He will no longer have mercy on the house of Israel, and that they are no longer His people, and He is no longer their God. Then, in Hosea 2 God actually tells Hosea to go to His children (Israel) and tell them of this.
Hosea 2:1-2 -
1 Say ye unto your brethren, Ammi; and to your sisters, Ruhamah.
2 Plead with your mother, plead: for she is not my wife, neither am I her husband: let her therefore put away her whoredoms out of her sight, and her adulteries from between her breasts;
The mother being spoken of, is His bride. His bride, are the people of Israel. But, because of them worshipping other things, He cast them aside finally and ultimately this is why Jesus gave Himself for us. Because He was the Husband of Israel (both the northern and southern kingdoms, but at the time of this book - Hosea - it was only referring to Israel, since as He said in chapter 1, Judah remained in covenant with Him).
According to God's own law, a Husband cannot put His wife away for any other reason other than the wife being unfaithful. In doing this, the husband can only put them away. No divorce was permitted. Jesus shows us that Moses did in fact allow divorces for this, to where the wife was free to re-marry, but this isn't how it was to be. God designed it so the woman would be put away, and cursed, for ever - or until the husband died. In this situation, God is the Husband though, and since the wife (Israel) was doomed to be cursed until God died, He came down to die to free Israel from that curse.
My point, is that the verse in Hosea 2:23 it's talking about Israel being rejoined again to God. Sheep tried to say it was referring to people that weren't Israel, but in fact when you read it, the entire book of Hosea is talking about Israel.
Just one chapter earlier, God tells us that Israel was to no longer be called His people. In fact, it uses the exact same wording that is used in Hosea 2:23. He divorced them, and said that He was to show them no more mercy or compassion, they were no longer His people. In the exact same order actually and even the same exact wording. All the verses from 2:1-2:23, talk about why He decided to divorce them. Israel constantly was doing this, and Judah did pretty much the same thing, but they were much better about remaining faithful. Where they slipped up, was more so obeying God a bit TOO much. Making man-made laws to keep from falling away, and even going as far as keeping people (gentiles) out of Israel that God on several occasions says displays that He wants to come in to become part of Israel. Which is why there's so many commands displaying this assimilation that He expected there to be between the natural blood Israelites and the strangers who decide to join and unite themselves to be Israel as well.
16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.Sheep Dog wrote:
Could you explain then, please, what Paul means i Rom 11:24 - For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
I don't see any mention of "root" here, just a "wild olive tree" (gentiles) and a "good olive tree" that the gentiles are grafted into, and then "their own olive tree" that formerly unbelieving Israelites will be grafted BACK into. So do we have three olive trees ... a "wild olive tree", a "good olive tree" and "their own olive tree". We know that when Jesus returns, there will only be two groups of people ... wheat/tares, sheep/goats, wise virgins/foolish virgins, those who have a wedding garment/those who do, etc. So if Israel has "their own olive tree" that believing Israelites are going to be grafted back into, and gentiles are removed from the "wild olive tree" and grafted into in "a good olive tree", and unbelievers remain in the "wild olive tree", we are going to have three groups of people when Jesus returns.
How do you view this?