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Featured God curses Christians

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by GirdYourLoins, Jan 4, 2018.

  1. GirdYourLoins

    GirdYourLoins Well-Known Member

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    EDIT: I have removed most of my personal circumtances as I want this to be a theological discussion based on scripture. It is posted in controversal theology for this reason. I am not after advice that I already know. I am not after sympathy.

    I am after sound biblical doctrine why this would not apply to Christians.

    My reason for saying this is that I have seen it in my life and the lives of other Christians. The reason I believe it can only be a curse from God is because the bible clearly states god will curse people in Exodus 20:5. I have been taught that this doesnt apply to Christians but believe that would make God a liar. I have seen this in my life and situation in other Christians lives that Christians cant explain with their theology that God blesses Christians that could be explained by this verse being applied.

    My evidence of it was when I was a teenager I started going to a Christian youth group with a friend and my dad said he did not want me to go to a Christian thing. He said he hated God and when he was saying it he had the most hateful contorted vile look I ever saw on his face (and he often had a hateful look on his face when he beat me up) and spit coming out of his mouth as he said it.

    In responding, I would like any scripture that shows that this does not apply to be included. As it is a very specific situation in response to someone hating God the scriptures would need to show this. And if possible, how to break the curse nd move into Gods blessing. I have been a Christian for about 20 years by the way.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2018
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  2. mozo41

    mozo41 Well-Known Member

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    "Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree,"
     
  3. Another Lazarus

    Another Lazarus Old Newbie

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    You need to thank God instead, for everything God has been blessing you with.

    Many people cannot even have such things belong to you.
    [​IMG]
     
  4. GirdYourLoins

    GirdYourLoins Well-Known Member

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    I have been volunteering doing homeless work for most of my 20 years as a Christian so know all about their circumstances. I do thank God for things that warrant it. Do you really think your post is helpful or just patronising?
     
  5. Another Lazarus

    Another Lazarus Old Newbie

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    We'd better give thanks to God whatever is our condition now.

    The Hebrew being delivered from Egypt kept blaming God in the desert, instead of giving thanks.
     
  6. GirdYourLoins

    GirdYourLoins Well-Known Member

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    I've done a big edit to concentrate on doctrine rather than advice. If I wanted advice I would have put it in the advice section. Thank you for trying to give advice, but its not what I want or need.
     
  7. mozo41

    mozo41 Well-Known Member

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    He that keepeth the fig-tree shall eat the fruit of it:
     
  8. GirdYourLoins

    GirdYourLoins Well-Known Member

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    This is not helpful or entering into the discussion. Please dont respond on here again.
     
  9. mozo41

    mozo41 Well-Known Member

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    how so

    Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us--for it has been written: "Cursed is everyone hanging on a tree"--

    to be hung on a tree is to be caught between heaven and earth, as in two fruits of a tree etc
     
  10. GirdYourLoins

    GirdYourLoins Well-Known Member

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    You have just been posting single scriptures clearly aimed at being condemning and patronising rather than try and discuss the subject in a reasoned way.
     
  11. mozo41

    mozo41 Well-Known Member

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    not so ... i see your question/answer in these verses as i do every verse of the scriptures ....
     
  12. Serving Zion

    Serving Zion Seek First His Kingdom & Righteousness

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    St. Paul commanded us to allow the one who preaches a false gospel come under a curse - anathema/cut off. I wonder if you are describing a thing more like plagues than a curse, as in Job and Revelation 18:4. Psalms 91:11-13 came to mind too.

    Jesus said the thief comes to steal, kill and destroy, but He had come that we might have life beyond measure.. so we see that there is this destructive thief in opposition to us and Jesus. This destructive thief, I believe, is to describe Satan or any of his cohorts. So when you are describing the likes of things going wrong, and people throwing unexpected complications in your day.. these could be a coordinated attack against you, trying to destroy you (James 1:12-15, 1 Corinthians 10:13).

    Remember that St. Paul wrote "resist the devil and he will flee from you" .. and you have described seeing the devil in your father. It makes me suspect that the devil might have already learned some ways to get under your skin, just as he was apparently trying to get at Job the same way (Job 2:9).

    .. and about your fragrance allergy, I know it is frustrating because people don't seem to understand that it is their wrongness and you have a natural entitlement to fresh air - that they are actually imposing pollution upon you. In their mind it is a lawful and common product, and it is meant to be a statement of fashion, so they believe they should be entitled to do it and probably have been led to believe that they are socially expected to .. but in the light of your objection, they need to choose deceit over truth to remain ignorant of the fact that they are introducing an unhealthy and unpleasant element into your environment. It is the passion of their flesh that is against you, not only in their lust for the fragrance, but also their pride to not admit that their perception of right and wrong is unjust.

    Once I stopped working for a stressful company wherein I developed a similar condition, my anxiety then subsided and I was having more daily activity outdoors. I also consulted a herbalist who helped me to recover from Adrenal Fatigue and Candida, and about three months later I noticed that fragrances were not a big deal to me any more.

    Like everything, the body has a limited capacity to operate, and this capacity depends upon the environment. When the environment is straining the body to operate outside of it's range of comfort, it begins to operate less optimally and it may take time to recover full vitality (sometimes never being able to fully recover at all). I am not speaking only of energy either (ie: food, sleep), but emotions too. If the people in your life are causing you to be always worried and on guard, then you are suffering a burden and not receiving an essential element of life: love and support of those who are made in the image of God. Matthew 24:12 warned this would happen.

    Jesus said "come to me all who are weary and heavy burdened and you will find rest for your souls". Also St. Paul wrote "do not be anxious for anything, but by prayer with supplication make your requests known to God. Then the peace that surpasses understanding will guard your heart and mind". Jesus said "do not be anxious about tomorrow - what you will wear or eat, for your Father in heaven knows all these things and you are so very precious to him." - and yet, Christians these days don't live with that freedom.. why?

    It could be something to do with Proverbs 25:26. Christians behave like slaves and doormats these days and the wicked walk all over them. It must be because of the false doctrines they are believing (2 Peter 2:1-2).

    I hope this can be helpful, and yeah definitely look into adrenal fatigue for your fragrance sensitivities. Hopefully it could end up being that easy to recover from..
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2018
  13. nChrist

    nChrist AKA: Tom - Saved By Grace Through Faith Supporter

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    Your answer is in context of the Scripture you quoted.

    Exodus 20:1-6 (ESV)
    1 And God spoke all these words, saying, 2 “I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. 3 “You shall have no other gods before me. 4 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. 5 You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the LORD your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments.

    Do you fall down before other gods with a little "g" and worship idols? Do you hate the true and living God? If not, you will be responsible for your own relationship with God - not your dad's. Also remember that we're living in the Age of Grace and not under the Law of Moses.


    Romans 10:8-11 (ESV)
    8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim); 9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. 11 For the Scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.”

    Ephesians 2:8-10 (ESV)

    8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

    Quit worrying about what your dad did and be concerned with what you will do with the Gospel of the Grace of God. I hope this helps you.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2018
  14. Strong in Him

    Strong in Him I can do all things through Christ Supporter

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    God doesn't curse Christians.
    God loves us so much that while we were still sinners - godless people, on our way to hell - he sent his Son to die for us, Romans 5:6-8; Ephesians 2:4-5. If he could do that for people who hated him, why would he suddenly start cursing those who accept, and believe in, him?

    With respect, you quoted only 1 short verse from the Old Testament - that is not Biblical evidence that Christians are cursed by God.

    That's very sad.
    None of us have any control over the circumstances, family or culture that we are born into. Being born into poverty, experiencing abuse, having non Christian, violent or alcoholic parents is not a punishment or curse for doing wrong, just as being born into a wealthy family is not a reward for doing good.
    I didn't have the childhood that you had, but I also have many allergies, and spent much time having tests, injections etc, as well as sometimes missing out on things because I felt too ill to take part. I always went to church, became a Christian when I was a teenager. My brothers weren't Christians but did not suffer in this way - yet that doesn't mean that God was cursing me.
    Maybe you've heard the saying, "we can't control what happens to us but we can control how we react to it"? It may sound trite, but it's true. I used to look at the circumstances, and measure God's love for me by what was happening around me. That wasn't correct. The Bible says that we walk by faith and not by sight, 2 Corinthians 5:5. I was walking by sight and believing that the things that I could see, feel and was experiencing were expressions of God's love, and the reality. The truth is that God had already told, and shown, me how much he loved me, by the cross. John says "THIS is how we know what love is; Jesus Christ laid down his life for us", 1 John 3:16. God didn't wait for us to be good/healthy/intelligent/rich/worthy enough; Jesus died for us while we were sinners.

    It may be difficult, but you don't have to let the abuse of your childhood define you; there is help and support available, not least from Jesus who is our healer and makes all things new.

    Sometimes things just don't work out the way that we want them to. We live in a fallen and sinful world; people let us down, things break or fail, that's how it is. In addition, Christians also believe in the devil who is doing his best to ruin our relationship with God and getting us to believe lies such as "God doesn't care any more". Jesus called the devil a liar and a murderer, John 8:44, and the thief who comes to destroy, John 10:10. He told us to pray "deliver us from evil", and Paul teaches about spiritual warfare.

    It's sad that people would treat you this way. :(

    This isn't an excuse, and I don't even know that it's happening in your case, but there is such a thing as a self fulfilling prophecy. This is where we tell ourselves, for example, that no one likes us, and we interpret every action, or negative incident, as proof that "no one likes us", or are out to get us or whatever. Unfortunately, we may then find that we become so gloomy/negative/quick to talk about our problems that people start avoiding us - and very soon, the belief, "no one likes me" may become true.

    I am not saying that you are doing this - IF you are, it may be subconscious.
    Because you've been through so much, that may, unfortunately, affect your self esteem, or make you believe that you are acceptable to no one. If this is the case, maybe it affects the way that you act and are around others. This shouldn't put people off, lead them to avoid you or "write you off" - but unfortunately, it happens. Even Christians aren't perfect.

    I know that feeling - but I have come to believe that it depends on how you define "success".

    I don't have a job, I haven't had one for some time. I had M.E for 18 years and didn't get any qualifications, (apart from a couple of A levels, years ago.) I was never promoted in any job that I had, and have never earned more that £8,500 a year. In my church, many clergy, and some of my fellow preachers, have degrees, maybe doctorates, and have had careers and/or families. I have none of that. I would judge you to be successful simply by having, and holding down, a job.
    By other people's standards, I expect you could say I am a failure.
    Yet I do voluntary work, try to make a difference, do the things that God wants me to do and serve him. Does God think I am a failure? Sometimes it FEELS like it, but I doubt that is the case.

    Firstly, it's good that you have support from co-workers.
    As you are employed, I would have thought that you should have some rights - plus your boss should want to do what he can to make sure that his employees are happy and able to be productive and do their jobs. If you can't talk to him/her about this issues, is there someone from personnel, or health and safety, that you can confide in? Do you belong to a union?
    You are employed by people to do a job. Just as there are co-workers who support you and make sure that you can do your best, so there should be people also looking out for you regarding your health and safe working environment.

    If spraying perfume in the office leads to a rebuke from the boss, an accusation of discrimination or a bad mark/reference for selfishness and not being able to work as part of a team - these workers will find that it is very much their problem.

    Some people - infuriatingly - have to make very little effort and still get top marks, the best job or whatever. That's just the way it is. I have a brother like that; it's maddening.
    But you don't need to define yourself by what others say about you, or the "success" that they have.
    God loves, values and approves of you, just as you are.
    Have you ever considered that maybe things "don't work out" because they are not what God wants for you and/or he is trying to lead you another way?

    What the world sees as success and what God sees, are two different things. Remember Jesus said that the first would be last, and that those who want to be great must serve others. This isn't the way of the world. Some people feel that to get to the top and get "success" it is perfectly o.k to walk over others - maybe like those workers who spray perfume around and say it is not their problem that it affects you. I guess it depends on how you define success and whether the worldly definition of success is what you are aiming for.

    Cars break down, and material possessions eventually fail, break or wear out.
    Again, if you are defining "success" by your possessions, then maybe you'll be disappointed. Jesus told us not to lay up treasures on earth where they may corrupt us, rust or get carried off by thieves. He told parables about money and putting God first.

    Yes, of course we all like nice things, we can buy them with money we have earned and it is not a sin to have them. But if you are allowing possessions, the number of them that you have or the
    way that they work, define your sense of self worth or whether or not God loves you; you are looking in the wrong place.

    Maybe they don't, or maybe they have just as many problems, but don't tell anyone, or put on a "front".
    Again, are you letting other people/things define your life? Are you judging yourself to be a "success", or otherwise, simply because of what other people say? Are you looking at their lives, think "they have it easy" and see it as a "sign" that God loves them but not you?
    That is not the case. God sent his own Son to die for you - that's how much he loves you and wants you to belong to him and be his child. If you died tomorrow, you'd lose status, possessions etc, but nothing can separate you from God's love, ever.

    Which is sad.
    But there may be many reasons for this, as I have said above; your attitude, the devil trying to mess things up, God trying to lead you in the way that he wants, and make you into the person that HE wants you to be, the natural consequences of living in a fallen world with other sinners - and maybe other things too.

    Like I said, that is only 1 verse from the Old Testament. What about all the verses that say how much God loves you? Do you believe in the devil/power of evil, or are you blaming everything on God? Jesus taught us that the devil is real; he taught about him, resisted him, rebuked him, cast him out and finally defeated him.
    If you are doing God's will, the devil will try to mess it up, take your eyes off God and destroy your relationship with him.
    If you are not doing God's will, MAYBE God is using some of these bad things to lead your to seek him, his will and his kingdom.
    Either way, you can't take ONE verse from the Bible and say that it proves your point/confirms your belief.

    No it wouldn't.
    Maybe that was how people saw things in the OT, or maybe God said that to those people at that time, for a purpose.
    But God has shown you how much he loves, values and accepts you by sending Jesus to die for you, and sending his Spirit, who gives every believer at least one gift, and also assures them that they are children of God.
    Jesus took God's curse upon himself when he died. God doesn't curse believers - although I'm sure the devil wants you to believe that.

    That wasn't from God.
    That was someone who was a non believer reacting to the news that you may have become one. It MAY have even been the devil - who hates God big time - trying to keep you away from God and other believers. It certainly wasn't evidence of God's curse on you.

    Your family, friends, circumstances may all have hated God, or been against God at some point - that is not proof that God hates YOU.
    Again, look at the cross.
     
  15. GirdYourLoins

    GirdYourLoins Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for your response. I will certainly look at adrenal fatigue as some of the symptoms do seem to fit. I was actually diagnosed as having fibromyalgia as a result of my childhood but I have never been totally satisfied it is any more than a "best guess" by doctors. This has some key but small differences that means it may be a better fit to my symptoms. I'll look into it.
     
  16. GirdYourLoins

    GirdYourLoins Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for your response. I am of course aware of those scriptures. I am a born again believer who has for many years had a good relationship with God and I know His presence in my life. I have for many years prayed about it and rejected my dads impact on myt life before God (while trying not to "dishonour" him). I have been totally honest with God about it all, repented, asked Him to give revelation or a word if there is any more I need to do, done everything I know to do, yet still it happens. Like recently I was having some work done on my house (which is in poor condition as I ant afford to get everything done). I finally had money to get some of it done, the first person I asked changed when he could do it from a couple of months to a year, the next messed me about and never responded, two had IT problems and kept saying they had done quotes but they kept not coming through or going missing, then the one I got to do it seemed reliable and available. They then turned out to be absolutely awful so I had to get rid of them and rectify the work myself and costs spiralled as a result costing me a lot more than it should. CHristians still tell me that they cant believe how much stuff like this happens to me.
     
  17. nChrist

    nChrist AKA: Tom - Saved By Grace Through Faith Supporter

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    God didn't promise Christians an easy time in this short life. Take the example of the Apostle Paul, and he was definitely a Christian.
     
  18. JoeP222w

    JoeP222w Well-Known Member

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    The Christian is not cursed, and cannot be cursed.

    John 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.


    John 5:24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
     
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  19. GirdYourLoins

    GirdYourLoins Well-Known Member

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    My first question when reading your reply is how are you able to see and quote something I edited out not long after writing this? But I'll ignor that for now.

    Just to clarify, your last comment is wrong, I never said God hated me or anyone else. God does not hate anyone and the curse I quoted was that God curses those who hate Him, not that He hates them or anyone else.

    While I appreciate your input, I would like to concentrate on one thing. The verse I quoted says God curses those that hate Him to the third and fourth generation. What I am looking for is a biblical argument that this does not apply to believers.
     
  20. GirdYourLoins

    GirdYourLoins Well-Known Member

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    I will give you credit where it is due. The part that Christ became a curse for us is probably the best biblical evidence so far to answer the question that I asked. Thank you.
     
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