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Featured God curses Christians

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by GirdYourLoins, Jan 4, 2018.

  1. Sheep dog

    Sheep dog Active Member

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    Why must posts be quoted to prove what is being said? Don't you read and remember what is posted? If anyone says a Christian must keep the sabbath they're requiring the keeping of the law. That really means if you don't you're practicing sin and void your salvation. It has to do with willful sin. The short course is is total grace. That means no performance required. Sin nor the right to sin isn't being promoted by me. Sin was before the law and the reason it came. If I quote the verses you'll just throw them out.
     
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  2. Devin P

    Devin P Well-Known Member

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    Well, let's look at that verse you say is against all of God's people only being Israel. Let's see the verse that you say disproves Christians being grafted in to Israel.

    John 10:16 - 16And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

    There shall be only one fold. What is that fold? Israel. Considering nowhere in scripture does it call any other people group sheep. None. Sheep are only ever used to describe Israel.

    Lets look at another verse Matthew 15:24 - 24But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

    If what I'm saying is false, then what is Paul saying Christians are grafted into if not the olive tree of Israel? Are not the sheep supposed to be of one fold as Jesus described in John 10:16? You'd have to ignore that. Did Paul make up the whole olive tree example? No, he's quoting the old testament, where God compares Israel to an olive tree.

    Hosea 14:5-6
    [5]I will be as the dew unto Israel: he shall grow as the lily, and cast forth his roots as Lebanon.
    [6]His branches shall spread, and his beauty shall be as the olive tree, and his smell as Lebanon.

    If we aren't grafted into Israel, what is Paul saying we are grafted into? And if the olive tree isn't Israel, then why would Paul use this example, knowing that scripture calls Israel an olive tree?
     
  3. Devin P

    Devin P Well-Known Member

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    You say you're not giving license to sin, but you say no one can keep the Sabbath.

    John 14:31 - But that the world may know that I love the Father; and as the Father gave me commandment, even so I do. Arise, let us go hence.

    Here Jesus says that the way the world will know He loves God, is that He does the commands His Father gave Him.

    The 4th command is the Sabbath, so right there, you'd be giving license to sin. The Sabbath is a sign between God and His children, forever. Man changed the Sabbath, not God.

    If you are saying that Jesus did away with Sabbath, it's impossible. Read Deuteronomy 13, if Jesus did so, that would be sin to Him. One of the laws is that no one can teach against the law, not even a worker of miracles or a prophet, and if they do they're sinning, a false prophet, and were to be put to death. To say Jesus did away with any commandment is to say He sinned, and deserved to be stoned, which is false. He never sinned, and therefore couldn't of taught against the law.
     
  4. Kenny'sID

    Kenny'sID Well-Known Member Supporter

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    It's a commandment...what other commandments when kept makes someone legalistic? How bout theft for instance? If we steal regularly without repentance, are we heaven bound? if we live with out other half without the benefit of marriage. and without repentance, are we heaven bound?
     
  5. Sheep dog

    Sheep dog Active Member

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    First you must show Hosea 2:23 is calling people which aren't God people to be Israel. You can't and that could be the reason you don't include it in your post.
    You're not paying attention to what the verse says. The verse says nothing about bringing anyone into this fold. "This" and "one" are entirely different. The verse won't support Israel as the "one" fold. The verse clearly says there are sheep which aren't of this fold (Israel). There's no Jew nor Greek (gentile) in the fold. Gal 3:28.
    Since you choose to ignore Jn 3, your really talking to the wrong people here. Your position is only Israeli can have eternal life. Just isn't what the Gospel of John says.
    Paul is saying the Christian is graft into the Root (Jesus) and not the tree (Israel). Read only what the text says, not what you want it to say. I understand your false indoctrination. The Christian has no relationship with the covenant given at Sinai (read Israel). Our relationship is with Jesus.
    It's suggested you read what the Scripture says in Romans 11 and not what you want it to say. The Jew must also be graft into the Root. If they're not they reject salvation provided by their and our Messiah/Redeemer.
     
  6. Sheep dog

    Sheep dog Active Member

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    The Christian isn't subject to that covenant. Besides that I've accepted what the sabbath can't provide at the invitation Jesus gave in Mat 11:28-30. It's a much better deal.
    And what is the commandment of the Father?

    And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. I Jn 3:23

    I will leave you to do with this verse as you wish. It clearly says to keep the commandments of Jesus opposed to keeping the law. Jesus no where said to keep the sabbath.
    No, because of the promise found in Jer 31:31-33 and the testimony of Jesus in LK 22:20. The Christian isn't subject to the law given at Sinai. That covenant has nothing to do with salvation (eternal life).
    You're not paying attention to Jeremiah 31:31-33 nor the words of Jesus. you may wish to say the law is still valid and required if you want. There's nothing in the NT to support that. In fact the NT shows the law is rescinded. You just won't accept that. Please don't say we can now murder unless that is what other to do to you. Jn 13:34 and LK 6:31.
     
  7. Kenny'sID

    Kenny'sID Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Because I want you to show me what exactly you are taking as legalistic, so we can take it a part and see if it really is that. If there are lots of them, it shouldn't be hard to do. Or would you rather us not look into the details?

    So show me that religion that is being promoted so we can see if that is truly what's happening or if you're just seeing it that way.
     
  8. Sheep dog

    Sheep dog Active Member

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    Just how much do you want to get into sabbath keeping?
     
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  9. Sheep dog

    Sheep dog Active Member

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    Jn 13:34 should answer your question. As for what Jesus taught, I also like LK 6:31. How either of these verses permit sin is beyond me. How either of those verses promote the law is also beyond me.
     
  10. Sheep dog

    Sheep dog Active Member

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    If law keeping is required that is being legal and legalistic. Simply by not violating the law, one isn't subjecting themselves to or being obedient to it. There are many unregenerate people who don't murder and commit adultery, etc. They're still unredeemed sinners without God.
    Since you appear to not understand discussing a specific religious sect won't be of value.
     
  11. Devin P

    Devin P Well-Known Member

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    What do you mean?

    I'm not sure what you meant - no offense intended - but I'll try to answer what I think you asked as best as I can. I'll All I know is that I've been amazingly blessed since I've started keeping the sabbath. I'm closer with my family, my friends, I've been blessed with an amazing group of people to fellowship with, I feel way more intimate with God than I have before in my life, and it's given me a spirit of boldness that I never really had before I came to these things. Don't even get me started on how the feasts of God that He gave to us have impacted my life. The knowledge that the church and Israel are the same thing, that we're one, has changed my life infinitely for the better, more so than anything else I've ever gone through.

    If nothing up there answered your question, and you wanted to know how I keep it, well, really I just read the bible for examples of how it's to be kept. He commanded we don't work, and that we rest. So, I don't work, I rest. It's the day of the week I can sleep in, I read some scripture, fellowship with my brothers and sisters in our Savior, and we read together and spend time together. What feels like minutes, ends up being 5-8 hours that just completely flies by way too fast. It's just us going over things He's shown and revealed to us through our readings throughout the week. We'll all bring food, and meet at one another's homes, and play games, catch up on things that have happened over the week, pray for one another, the world, the other brothers and sisters around the world, make plans for how and where we'll celebrate certain feasts that God gave us that you can read about in Leviticus 23.

    Like, last year for instance, we rented out a campground, and had Sukkoth there for the week it's commanded, and honestly, it was one of the best experiences of my life. People say that it's burdensome to keep Torah, but honestly, it's the best thing that's ever happened to me. He says that if we love Him, we are to keep His commandments, and that His commands aren't to be burdensome. I hear a lot about people bringing up the whole "613" laws that have to be followed, but there's something that's not talked about regarding that number. The fact that no one, not even Jesus could've done all 613, because God only expects a person to keep the ones that apply to him specifically. There's commands for only levites, of which, Jesus wasn't, so He couldn't of kept those ones. There's laws for only levitical priests that were sons of Aaron, which the levites didn't have to keep, because they weren't sons of Aaron. There's laws for farmers, which means that if you're not a farmer, they don't apply. There's laws for kings, for judges, for slaves, for slave owners, for women, for children, for people who are married, etc, etc, etc. When you really get down to which ones apply to you, really for any one person, there's only around 150-200. And most of them, can be done just by being kind. Some can't, like keeping sabbath, or observing the feast days He told us to, but those are how we're to love Him. The feast days all point prophetically to Jesus, and there's 7, of which He's fulfilled the first 4 already. The last three, are to be fulfilled when He returns. I could go more into all of this, but I'm not really sure if I even have remotely answered your question haha.
     
  12. bugkiller

    bugkiller Well-Known Member

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    Where is that discussion?

    bugkiller
     
  13. bugkiller

    bugkiller Well-Known Member

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    Do you have soe proof anyone keeps the sabbath?

    bugkiller
     
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  14. bugkiller

    bugkiller Well-Known Member

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    Your post is self contradictory to what you've consistently presented.

    bugkiller
     
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  15. bugkiller

    bugkiller Well-Known Member

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    Good call. I didn't see it in that post either.

    bugkiller
     
  16. bugkiller

    bugkiller Well-Known Member

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    Most likely he doesn't really want to. Besides that would be talking about the poster. But how could it be done otherwise?

    bugkiller
     
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  17. Devin P

    Devin P Well-Known Member

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    What do you mean?
     
  18. Kenny'sID

    Kenny'sID Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Yet another claim without explanation. Care to elaborate?
     
  19. bugkiller

    bugkiller Well-Known Member

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    Nice testimony.

    More what I'm wondering about is this bolded part of the commandment - But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
    "within thy gates" means under some control either directly or indirectly. What is thy servant, either man or woman? What does cattle do and what do we use instead of cattle to do?

    bugkiller
     
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  20. bugkiller

    bugkiller Well-Known Member

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    No all can red the thread and forum for themselves. The record bears witness by itself.

    bugkiller
     
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