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Featured God curses Christians

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by GirdYourLoins, Jan 4, 2018.

  1. mathinspiration

    mathinspiration Active Member

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    I am more concerned about Christians cursing God and later regretting it.




    This is probably why Jews cannot Jesus as the messiah because he was hanged from a tree and was cursed. Maybe it is also why Klan men hang innocent black people on trees, too.
     
  2. Serving Zion

    Serving Zion Seek First His Kingdom & Righteousness

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    What you could be observing as a measure of possession, is how deep they have gone into dark thinking (Matthew 6:22-23), as a display of the proportion of jurisdiction that The Holy Spirit has over them (because God does not quickly give up on anyone, He is longsuffering: 1 Corinthians 13:4-7).

    Spiritual possession is all about the way we think, whether we cling to the truth at the cost of our desires, or whether we yield to the passions of the flesh (eg: pride, lust, greed) at the expense of being deceived (consider 1 John 4:6 - those having the spirit of truth vs error).

    There is some people who have (and speak in the capacity of) the spirit of truth, although they might not yet have learned enough knowledge to make a commitment to Jesus and call themselves Christian. When we discuss Christianity with those ones, we actually find a lot of agreement. Maybe they have been raised in an atheist environment so that they haven't been taught to think of Christianity as a thing to be pursued.. but it doesn't mean that they are consciously choosing to live contrary to what The Holy Spirit expects of them (James 4:17). It's often more a case that the harvest is great and the workers are few.

    On the other hand, there are those who become so passionately vile at the very mention of the name of Jesus, and that is the fury of the evil in them, because our presence and ministry threatens to displace it's hold of them (if we were to gracefully lead that person into a liberating knowledge of the truth - as is what happens when we purify ourselves - 1 Corinthians 6:19-20, 1 Peter 2:1-5). That is how deliverance takes place, when we are leading a person out of their erroneous thinking that yields their mind to the devil and into correct thinking whereby The Holy Spirit is equipped to keep building their knowledge in truth and leading their mind in the right way. We are spiritual surgeons, just as Jesus was saying in Matthew 9:12. We identify the problem, make some alterations and then let God's work continue the healing (1 Corinthians 3:6).

    So, it is when someone chooses to not believe the truth when it comes from the spirit of truth, then they have chosen to reject The Holy Spirit and to yield their mind to demonic thinking instead. Once a person begins on that course of erroneous thinking, they are led to view the world in a very untrue way (they are offspring of the father of lies). That person's belief of the character of God is corrupted so that they begin to think of God as someone that He actually is not (eg: some people express that they view God as an evil tyrant rather than a noble and holy king).

    When people have been viewing God as someone who is evil and tyrannical, and then they say that they hate Him, in fact it doesn't necessarily mean that they really hate God! They certainly hate the evil, tyrannical strawman view of Him that the spirit of error has deceived them to believe.. and yet if they were to humble themselves and really learn who God is, they would gladly honour Him! (just as St. Paul repented when he realised how wrong he had been about Jesus and His disciples).
     
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  3. Serving Zion

    Serving Zion Seek First His Kingdom & Righteousness

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    He was innocent of the charges that placed Him there though.. even Pontius Pilate recognised this (Matthew 27:22-25, 2 Corinthians 5:21).
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2018
  4. 2tim_215

    2tim_215 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Demon possession does exist, but what is more common is demonic influence (through what the Bible terms noemas) and is what causes many of the issues we deal with on a regular basis (we wrestle not against flesh and blood but against "spiritual wickedness in high places" (Eph 6:12). Possession requires a complete takeover and is difficult for the satanic forces to accomplish when you're a true believer.

    However, being influenced by them is another matter, even if one is in fact a Christian. Of course this can only occur when the one being influenced is deceived into the belief that what they're hearing in right and in many cases may be thinking that they are hearing from God Himself (or more specifically God's Holy Spirit) but in fact what they're hearing from is a false or "counterfeit" spirit.

    This is not that easy to detect sometimes and is something that we need to be aware of. The Bible tells that we are to "prove all things" (1 Thess 5) and that we are to "test the spirits to see if they are of God" (1 John 4) that we might not be deceived and/or manipulated. We should not be ignorant of Satan's devices (2 Cor 2:11).
     
  5. Strong in Him

    Strong in Him I can do all things through Christ Supporter

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    Great, but I, for one, am confused about what you're asking.

    The title of this thread, that you wrote, is "God curses Christians". You say that you know this is true and offer some very detailed and personal experiences as "evidence". You say that you have also seen it happen in the lives of other Christians.
    This led me to believe that you were saying that God had cursed you, and it sounded like you were blaming hi for the various bad things in your life. So I, for one, answered accordingly.
    Later you deleted most of the personal stuff, say that you have a good relationship with the Lord (which is great), that you wrote a controversial title only to get a discussion going, and you seem to be focusing mainly on your dad.

    So what exactly are you asking; "DOES God curse Christians?" "Is my life cursed because my dad hates God?" "Has God cursed my dad?" - or something different?

    If you wanted to ask only a question about something specific, why didn't you? Why not start a thread with the Exodus quote in the title and ask if this is true today, or for our thoughts?

    No.

    If someone told me they hated God, whether they said it with venom or casually, I'd have no reason to doubt that they meant it.
     
  6. 2tim_215

    2tim_215 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    There's absolutely no doubt in my mind that there are those who hate God with a passion, and unfortunately there are many of such persons on this planet. If not so, we wouldn't see anywhere the amount of evil which has taken place over the past millennia and currently today. They have no regard for God whatsoever.
     
  7. fat wee robin

    fat wee robin Newbie

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  8. Ron Gurley

    Ron Gurley What U See is What U Get!

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    The person of this OP, False or not, is walking in spiritual darkness. Turn around and walk into the Light. Jesus is the light of the world
     
  9. Ron Gurley

    Ron Gurley What U See is What U Get!

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    There was the true Light which, coming into the world, enlightens every man. ....John 1

    John 3:19
    This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil.

    John 8:12
    [ Jesus Is the Light of the World ]
    Then Jesus again spoke to them, saying,
    “I am the Light of the world; he who follows Me will not walk in the darkness, but will have the Light of life.”

    John 9:5
    While I am in the world, I am the Light of the world.”

    John 11:9
    Jesus answered, “Are there not twelve hours in the day? If anyone walks in the day, he does not stumble, because he sees the light of this world.

    John 12:46
    I have come as Light into the world, so that everyone who believes in Me will not remain in darkness.
     
  10. Soyeong

    Soyeong Well-Known Member

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    Jeremiah 31:29-30 In those days they shall no longer say: “‘The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children's teeth are set on edge.’ 30 But everyone shall die for his own iniquity. Each man who eats sour grapes, his teeth shall be set on edge.
     
  11. OzSpen

    OzSpen Regular Member

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    Gird,

    To whom was Ex 20:5 addressed? We must read the context to understand who was the audience: 'And God spoke all these words: 2 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery (Ex 20:1-2 NIV).

    So, Ex 20:5 was not addressed to Christians. It was addressed to those God brought out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. This verse regarding the curse applied to the Israelites under the Old Covenant. It is not spoken to Christians and does not apply to Christians.

    Please, please read a verse in context AND see 'Comparison of Old and New Covenants'.

    Therefore, it is correct that Ex 20:5 does not apply to Christians because it was addressed to the Old Covenant people - the Israelites. Context is so important in discerning why this applied only to the Jews at that time.

    Oz
     
  12. Serving Zion

    Serving Zion Seek First His Kingdom & Righteousness

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    Inherited generational curse is an apostate doctrine that empowers occult superstition, condemns the innocent and gives parents an opportunity to pretend that they are not responsible for corrupting the pure human nature of their children.

    Once I was alive apart from the Torah; but when the commandment came, sin came to life and I died. The commandment meant for life was found to cause death.
    Romans 7:9-10

    Only this have I discovered: God made mankind upright, but they went seeking after many schemes.
    Ecclesiastes 7:29

    But each one is tempted when he is dragged away and enticed by his own desire. Then when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is full grown, it brings forth death.
    James 1:14-15

    Do not be deceived! Bad company corrupts good morals.
    1 Corinthians 15:33

    So then, just as sin came into the world through one man and death through sin, in the same way death spread to all men because all sinned.
    Romans 5:12

    Amen, I tell you, unless you turn and become like children, you shall never enter the kingdom of heaven.
    Matthew 18:3
     
  13. GirdYourLoins

    GirdYourLoins Well-Known Member

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    I most certainly am not. Who are you to judge me?
     
  14. Daniel Marsh

    Daniel Marsh Well-Known Member

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    I do not know if becoming a new creation relates or not.

    Concerning the OT verse that started this, Eze 18 & 33 rules out generational curses.

    2 Corinthians 5:17-21J.B. Phillips New Testament (PHILLIPS)
    16-21 This means that our knowledge of men can no longer be based on their outward lives (indeed, even though we knew Christ as a man we do not know him like that any longer). For if a man is in Christ he becomes a new person altogether—the past is finished and gone, everything has become fresh and new. All this is God’s doing, for he has reconciled us to himself through Jesus Christ; and he has made us agents of the reconciliation. God was in Christ personally reconciling the world to himself—not counting their sins against them—and has commissioned us with the message of reconciliation. We are now Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were appealing direct to you through us. As his personal representatives we say, “Make your peace with God.” For God caused Christ, who himself knew nothing of sin, actually to be sin for our sakes, so that in Christ we might be made good with the goodness of God.
     
  15. Daniel Marsh

    Daniel Marsh Well-Known Member

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    Ezekiel 18Good News Translation (GNT)
    Individual Responsibility
    18 The Lord spoke to me 2 and said, “What is this proverb people keep repeating in the land of Israel?

    ‘The parents ate the sour grapes,
    But the children got the sour taste.’

    3 “As surely as I am the living God,” says the Sovereign Lord, “you will not repeat this proverb in Israel any more. 4 The life of every person belongs to me, the life of the parent as well as that of the child. The person who sins is the one who will die.

    5 “Suppose there is a truly good man, righteous and honest. 6 He doesn't worship the idols of the Israelites or eat the sacrifices offered at forbidden shrines. He doesn't seduce another man's wife or have intercourse with a woman during her period. 7 He doesn't cheat or rob anyone. He returns what a borrower gives him as security; he feeds the hungry and gives clothing to the naked. 8 He doesn't lend money for profit. He refuses to do evil and gives an honest decision in any dispute. 9 Such a man obeys my commands and carefully keeps my laws. He is righteous, and he will live,” says the Sovereign Lord.

    10 “Then suppose this man has a son who robs and kills, who does any[a] of these things 11 that the father never did. He eats sacrifices offered at forbidden shrines and seduces other men's wives. 12 He cheats the poor, he robs, he keeps what a borrower gives him as security. He goes to pagan shrines, worships disgusting idols, 13 and lends money for profit. Will he live? No, he will not. He has done all these disgusting things, and so he will die. He will be to blame for his own death.

    14 “Now suppose this second man has a son. He sees all the sins his father practiced, but does not follow his example. 15 He doesn't worship the idols of the Israelites or eat the sacrifices offered at forbidden shrines. He doesn't seduce another man's wife 16 or oppress anyone or rob anyone. He returns what a borrower gives him as security. He feeds the hungry and gives clothing to the naked. 17 He refuses to do evil and doesn't lend money for profit. He keeps my laws and obeys my commands. He will not die because of his father's sins, but he will certainly live. 18 His father, on the other hand, cheated and robbed[c] and always did evil to everyone. And so he died because of the sins he himself had committed.

    19 “But you ask, ‘Why shouldn't the son suffer because of his father's sins?’ The answer is that the son did what was right and good. He kept my laws and followed them carefully, and so he will certainly live. 20 It is the one who sins who will die. A son is not to suffer because of his father's sins, nor a father because of the sins of his son. Good people will be rewarded for doing good, and evil people will suffer for the evil they do.

    21 “If someone evil stops sinning and keeps my laws, if he does what is right and good, he will not die; he will certainly live. 22 All his sins will be forgiven, and he will live, because he did what is right. 23 Do you think I enjoy seeing evil people die?” asks the Sovereign Lord. “No, I would rather see them repent and live.

    24 “But if a righteous person stops doing good and starts doing all the evil, disgusting things that evil people do, will he go on living? No! None of the good he did will be remembered. He will die because of his unfaithfulness and his sins.

    25 “But you say, ‘What the Lord does isn't right.’ Listen to me, you Israelites. Do you think my way of doing things isn't right? It is your way that isn't right. 26 When a righteous person stops doing good and starts doing evil and then dies, he dies because of the evil he has done. 27 When someone evil stops sinning and does what is right and good, he saves his life. 28 He realizes what he is doing and stops sinning, so he will certainly not die, but go on living. 29 And you Israelites say, ‘What the Lord does isn't right.’ You think my way isn't right, do you? It is your way that isn't right.

    30 “Now I, the Sovereign Lord, am telling you Israelites that I will judge each of you by what you have done. Turn away from all the evil you are doing, and don't let your sin destroy you. 31 Give up all the evil you have been doing, and get yourselves new minds and hearts. Why do you Israelites want to die? 32 I do not want anyone to die,” says the Sovereign Lord. “Turn away from your sins and live.”
     
  16. Daniel Marsh

    Daniel Marsh Well-Known Member

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    Ezekiel 33Good News Translation (GNT)
    God Appoints Ezekiel as a Lookout
    33 The Lord spoke to me. 2 “Mortal man,” he said, “tell your people what happens when I bring war to a land. The people of that country choose one of their number to be a lookout. 3 When he sees the enemy approaching, he sounds the alarm to warn everyone. 4 If someone hears it but pays no attention and the enemy comes and kills him, then he is to blame for his own death. 5 His death is his own fault, because he paid no attention to the warning. If he had paid attention, he could have escaped. 6 If, however, the lookout sees the enemy coming and does not sound the alarm, the enemy will come and kill those sinners, but I will hold the lookout responsible for their death.

    7 “Now, mortal man, I am making you a lookout for the nation of Israel. You must pass on to them the warnings I give you. 8 If I announce that an evil person is going to die but you do not warn him to change his ways so that he can save his life, then he will die, still a sinner, and I will hold you responsible for his death. 9 If you do warn an evil person and he doesn't stop sinning, he will die, still a sinner, but your life will be spared.”

    Individual Responsibility
    10 The Lord spoke to me. “Mortal man,” he said, “repeat to the Israelites what they are saying: ‘We are burdened with our sins and the wrongs we have done. We are wasting away. How can we live?’ 11 Tell them that as surely as I, the Sovereign Lord, am the living God, I do not enjoy seeing sinners die. I would rather see them stop sinning and live. Israel, stop the evil you are doing. Why do you want to die?

    12 “Now, mortal man, tell the Israelites that when someone good sins, the good he has done will not save him. If an evil person stops doing evil, he won't be punished, and if a good man starts sinning, his life will not be spared. 13 I may promise life to someone good, but if he starts thinking that his past goodness is enough and begins to sin, I will not remember any of the good he did. He will die because of his sins. 14 I may warn someone evil that he is going to die, but if he stops sinning and does what is right and good— 15 for example, if he returns the security he took for a loan or gives back what he stole—if he stops sinning and follows the laws that give life, he will not die, but live. 16 I will forgive the sins he has committed, and he will live because he has done what is right and good.

    17 “And your people say that what I do isn't right! No, it's their way that isn't right. 18 When someone righteous stops doing good and starts doing evil, he will die for it. 19 When someone evil quits sinning and does what is right and good, he has saved his life. 20 But Israel, you say that what I do isn't right. I am going to judge you by what you do.”

    The News of Jerusalem's Fall
    21 On the fifth day of the tenth month of the twelfth year of our exile, someone who had escaped from Jerusalem came and told me that the city had fallen. 22 The evening before he came, I had felt the powerful presence of the Lord. When the man arrived the next morning, the Lord gave me back the power of speech.

    The Sins of the People
    23 The Lord spoke to me. 24 “Mortal man,” he said, “the people who are living in the ruined cities of the land of Israel are saying: ‘Abraham was only one man, and he was given the whole land. There are many of us, so now the land is ours.’

    25 “Tell them what I, the Sovereign Lord, am saying: You eat meat with the blood still in it. You worship idols. You commit murder. What makes you think that the land belongs to you? 26 You rely on your swords. Your actions are disgusting. Everyone commits adultery. What makes you think that the land is yours?

    27 “Tell them that I, the Sovereign Lord, warn them that as surely as I am the living God, the people who live in the ruined cities will be killed. Those living in the country will be eaten by wild animals. Those hiding in the mountains and in caves will die of disease. 28 I will make the country a desolate wasteland, and the power they were so proud of will come to an end. The mountains of Israel will be so wild that no one will be able to travel through them. 29 When I punish the people for their sins and make the country a wasteland, then they will know that I am the Lord.”

    The Results of the Prophet's Message
    30 The Lord said, “Mortal man, your people are talking about you when they meet by the city walls or in the doorways of their houses. They say to one another, ‘Let's go and hear what word has come from the Lord now.’ 31 So my people crowd in to hear what you have to say, but they don't do what you tell them to do. Loving words are on their lips, but they continue their greedy ways. 32 To them you are nothing more than an entertainer singing love songs or playing a harp. They listen to all your words and don't obey a single one of them. 33 But when all your words come true—and they will come true—then they will know that a prophet has been among them.”
     
  17. GirdYourLoins

    GirdYourLoins Well-Known Member

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    Apologies for the change. I wanted to ask a specific question but people were not answering that question so I changed it to focus on the specific thing I was asking. Nothing I said was a lie but I did just give the one side to encourage responses as I have never received more than about 3 replies to posts on here before. As I originally said, I have had many Christians and other people say they cant believe the amount of things I have go wrong in my life and say its far from normal. I do find it can get to me at times but it does not define me. I do have a good relationship with God.

    I have also known other Christians who have a lot happen to do them, one in particular at my church comes to mind. I have also read things in the news about people I know are Christians who seem to have things happen to them that seem extreme. I have tried having the discussion with people why this happens and theology on the subject, including on here, and people always write it off fairly quickly with a quick "we are under a new covenant" reply and dont discuss it any further. I had to push it a bit to get the discussion I wanted.

    I have, as you would expect, read a lot about the subject and have a fairly good knowledge on it, but often people on here will give views on things I have not considered before. Sometimes it can be a particular denomination has a view or something like that. I wanted to get peoples views and see if there was anything I had missed. There have been some good comments on here I have found very helpful along with some I dont think were answering the question or beneficial to me.
     
  18. Devin P

    Devin P Well-Known Member

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    Most christians will say that doesn't apply. They are wrong. By believing in Jesus, you are grafted into Israel. The only people ever called sheep, chosen, His children, wheat, etc, are Israel all throughout the bible. In Genesis 48, when it speaks on Ephraim's blessing

    Genesis 48:5-6
    5 And now thy two sons, Ephraim and Manasseh, which were born unto thee in the land of Egypt before I came unto thee into Egypt, are mine; as Reuben and Simeon, they shall be mine.

    Here we see that Ephraim and Manasseh, are Israel's (who was speaking in this verse), then we see in verse 19 -
    19 And his father refused, and said, I know it, my son, I know it: he also shall become a people, and he also shall be great: but truly his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his seed shall become a multitude of nations.

    That phrase "multitude of nations" in the original hebrew, is מלא הגוימ (melo hagoyim) - which means fullness of gentiles. His seed (Ephraim's) was predicted to become a fulness of gentiles. Jacob (Israel) just claimed Ephraim as his own, so that Ephraim could be called by the name of Israel, and here we see that God told Jacob that Ephraim (a tribe of Israel) would become the fulness of the gentiles. That is what we are waiting for God to do. I once was a gentile, until I came into this truth, and now, as Romans 11 says, I am grafted into spiritual Israel. The fulness of the nations is happening right now.

    So, with all of that said, to answer your question, all of those blessings and curses do apply to us, yes. But, it isn't God that curses us. It's us, that curses ourselves, God just fulfills the promises He said He would. If you repent from the wrongs and sins you've committed, praying for forgiveness, and guidance, mercy and truth, and do your best to keep the parts of torah that apply to you, you will be blessed. Since I've started keeping Torah, my life has been amazingly peaceful, and the blessings God has given me through this obedience is without words. Most christians will argue exactly the opposite of what I'm saying, and what you're asking about, but ignore them. Truth or tradition? You have a choice. Either to accept what you see in the bible, or what seminary teaches people.
     
  19. Doulosiesou

    Doulosiesou Member

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    A good book to read on demonic possession and or influence is People of the Lie by Scott Peck.
     
  20. Doug Melven

    Doug Melven Well-Known Member

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    2 Chronicles 25:4 But he slew not their children, but did as it is written in the law in the book of Moses, where the LORD commanded, saying, The fathers shall not die for the children, neither shall the children die for the fathers, but every man shall die for his own sin.
    No more generational curses, also see post 70 for more on this.
    Jesus said the thief came to steal, kill and destroy, He came to give us life and give it abundantly. John 10:10
    So if you see bad or good things happen, you can tell where they came from.

    Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
    5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
    5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

    God wants to bless you, not curse you.
    And because you are in Christ, He will not curse you.

     
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