For Bible literalists - Was there death before the fall in Genesis?

[xXThePrimeDirectiveXx]

I have heard some Christians profess there was no death before sin entered the world. Some seem to use this as a case for vegetarianism too.

Is there anyone here who believes this to be the case? Was it just humans who did not die before the fall? Was it animals too?

It seems Christians use "Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:" for this idealogy.

If you feel like discussing this, do so. I am curious to see what people think of this. I am not advocating it myself.

 

[Edx]

Ive heard it said many times by YECs that they do not believe there was death before this "fall" of theirs. Biologically of course it is impossible for there to be no death at all, unless things were "different" back then which of course requires another miracle.

 

[z3ro]

The important thing to remember is that the quote in romans only references man's death, not that of animals. Animals in the christian/jewish theology don't have souls the same way that humans do, and it was just accepted that animals always died.

Also, it is my understanding that animals can't sin, thus, they were not affected by man's fall. Again, see that the quote in romans only references man.

 

[c'mon sense]

The important thing to remember is that the quote in romans only references man's death, not that of animals. Animals in the christian/jewish theology don't have souls the same way that humans do, and it was just accepted that animals always died.

Also, it is my understanding that animals can't sin, thus, they were not affected by man's fall. Again, see that the quote in romans only references man.

However, the flood was sent to purge the world of all life, everything that had breath of life was meant to be destroyed. It seems animals were affected by the sinfulness of humans.

 

[z3ro]

However, the flood was sent to purge the world of all life, everything that had breath of life was meant to be destroyed. It seems animals were affected by the sinfulness of humans.

Yeah, they just kinda got screwed.

 

[xXThePrimeDirectiveXx]

The important thing to remember is that the quote in romans only references man's death, not that of animals. Animals in the christian/jewish theology don't have souls the same way that humans do, and it was just accepted that animals always died.

Also, it is my understanding that animals can't sin, thus, they were not affected by man's fall. Again, see that the quote in romans only references man.

I agree. There was a pastor who claimed lizards were actually dinosaurs, but not given unlimited lifespan like before, they could no longer grow into dinosaurs. He said lizards continue to grow in size throughout their lives. I of course found this farfetched, and wanted to see what other theories Christians might hold on this.

 

[CthulhuDragon]

I agree. There was a pastor who claimed lizards were actually dinosaurs, but not given unlimited lifespan like before, they could no longer grow into dinosaurs. He said lizards continue to grow in size throughout their lives. I of course found this farfetched, and wanted to see what other theories Christians might hold on this.

That would be a Kent Hovind Argument.

 

[xXThePrimeDirectiveXx]

That would be a Kent Hovind Argument.

I keep seeing that name around, but I have not investigated him.

There was another pastor that someone had me listen to his CD to answer my question. I had a good chuckle with the lizard to dinosaur theory.

 

[I_Love_Cheese]

I keep seeing that name around, but I have not investigated him.

There was another pastor that someone had me listen to his CD to answer my question. I had a good chuckle with the lizard to dinosaur theory.

The IRS has been investigating him for years and they have concluded that he is a liar and a fraud and believe they have sufficient evidence to convince others beyond a reasonable doubt.

 

[xXThePrimeDirectiveXx]

The IRS has been investigating him for years and they have concluded that he is a liar and a fraud and believe they have sufficient evidence to convince others beyond a reasonable doubt.

This sounds like an unsavory character. Is he the YEC's martyr or something?

 

[I_Love_Cheese]

This sounds like an unsavory character. Is he the YEC's martyr or something?

I believe crying martyr will be his next strategy, there are some here who are allready doing it for him.

For further info and entertainment here are some websites.
http://www.drdino.com/
http://www.kent-hovind.com/
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/hovind/

 

[xXThePrimeDirectiveXx]

I believe crying martyr will be his next strategy, there are some here who are allready doing it for him.

For further info and entertainment here are some websites.
http://www.drdino.com/
http://www.kent-hovind.com/
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/hovind/

Thanks, I will check them out.

DrDino I have heard of. There is a guy at work who touts him quite often. What is the 411 on him?

 

[fromdownunder]

Thanks, I will check them out.

DrDino I have heard of. There is a guy at work who touts him quite often. What is the 411 on him?

DrDino IS Kent Hovind.

Norm

 

[xXThePrimeDirectiveXx]

DrDino IS Kent Hovind.

Norm

Holy crap! I will have to tell my co-worker about him then. He is always sending out DrDino info through company email. I never really looked into it. LOL this is interesting.

 

[Edx]

Holy crap! I will have to tell my co-worker about him then. He is always sending out DrDino info through company email. I never really looked into it. LOL this is interesting.

He's allowed to do that??

 

[xXThePrimeDirectiveXx]

He's allowed to do that??

Yes, the company used to be soley Christian, but over time, hired in some non-pods.

It's a small (40 people), unorthodox company where suprisingly, the pods and non-pods get along well and there is very little evangelizing. Christian-themed emails and bad secular jokes run rampant through the company email hehe.

 

[Edx]

Yes, the company used to be soley Christian, but over time, hired in some non-pods.

It's a small (40 people), unorthodox company where suprisingly, the pods and non-pods get along well and there is very little evangelizing. Christian-themed emails and bad secular jokes run rampant through the company email hehe.

America = strange.

 

[xXThePrimeDirectiveXx]

America = strange.

Yeah, the place I worked for before, I couldn't even check my internet mail. I go from that to YEC Corporate with full access to anything I want to search.