FDA greenlights updated vaccines that better target currently circulating variants

[Ana the Ist]

Which diseases did you learn about that have 6 weeks immunity from vaccination and lifetime immunity from infection?

Even the CDC recently admitted more shots could increase chances of infection.

 

[sfs]

Even the CDC recently admitted more shots could increase chances of infection.

Citation, please. I see a lot of things stated as fact here that are not true.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Even the CDC recently admitted more shots could increase chances of infection.

Citation, please. I see a lot of things stated as fact here that are not true.

If it's the report I'm remembering (Ana could be referring to something else, in which case, I too would be skeptical until I saw some citations if the claim is that an additional booster dose actually physically makes you more susceptible)

The report wasn't saying that more shots would increase risk of infection... The report was outlining the cohort breakdowns & behavioral components that explained why more boosted vs. unbooted people were seeming to get new infections over a particular 4 month time period.

In summary (and I'm paraphrasing here)...

The kind of person who would rush out and get a booster right away is likely in one of three categories:
1 - The cohort bias) Elderly or with immune compromising conditions (meaning with or without the vaccine, they're more susceptible than your average person)

2 - The behavioral bias) People who were still deathly afraid of the virus and were still hiding away, and the booster then gave them the sense of confidence go out and mingle and go to gatherings after 6 months of trying to avoid people. They're more likely to contract a new infection than a person who'd been living as normal, and likely already caught it and recovered (which we know confers pretty durable immunity for at least 8 months)

3 - The testing bias) This one has some overlap with #2...in that, people who were still (for a lack of a better term), "covid obsessed", were likely the kind of person who was still diligently testing every time they got a scratchy throat or stuffy nose, as to where the people had more of a "meh, it is what it is" approach, likely aren't keeping a stockpile of at-home tests on hand anymore, and likely aren't rushing out to the doctor if they suspect they may have it.

 

[Aaron112]

In the news it is obvious that
Information keeps changing.
Disease keeps increasing. (the more drugs used, the more problems seen)

It seems today that Plagues(of diab., heart, lungs, blood)
are so common, people do not think of them as plagues.
What's wrong with the world (or the news) ?

 

[ThatRobGuy]

In the news it is obvious that
Information keeps changing.
Disease keeps increasing. (the more drugs used, the more problems seen)

It seems today that Plagues(of diab., heart, lungs, blood)
are so common, people do not think of them as plagues.
What's wrong with the world (or the news) ?

It's a fair point that we don't focus on those other diseases you mention (or not nearly enough)

However, contagious vs. non-contagious is likely the major sticking point for why this one gets so much more focus.

But, I do think that we're past the point of needing to obsess about covid. Barring some future "super variant" coming around, I think we can just treat it as something endemic like the flu at this point in time now that we're in late 2023 and everyone has basically had some version of covid, and all of the people who wanted to be vaccinated or boosted has easy access to do so.


Another unfortunate symptom of the virus was that it was politically polarized, which leads to people not wanting to "let go" of something that unfortunately (seemingly) became an extension of their personality over the past 3 years. Trending hashtags like #BringBackMasks (from healthy 20-somethings) shows that a lot of this stuff was a easy way to virtue signal, and a low-effort way to show everyone else "Look at me, I'm on the good team!".

 

[sfs]

It seems today that Plagues(of diab., heart, lungs, blood)
are so common, people do not think of them as plagues.
What's wrong with the world (or the news) ?

The one that's really increasing is diabetes, which is clearly related to the steadily increasing rate of obesity.

 

[essentialsaltes]

DeSantis discourages latest covid boosters (for those under 65), contradicting federal guidance​

DeSantis delivered Covid booster warning as Florida led the nation in per capita hospitalizations​

About 2,280 people in Florida were hospitalized for Covid as his administration announced controversial guidance.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention released data showing Florida’s hospitalization rate was 10.65 per 100,000 residents during the week ending on Sept. 9. Washington, D.C. was next with 10.06 per 100,000, followed by Arkansas.

In raw numbers, that means about 2,280 people in Florida were hospitalized for Covid-related health issues. It’s a far cry from the height of the pandemic, when the state was shattering nationwide records during the summer of 2021 with more than 10,000 hospitalizations, but still signifies an uptick in cases.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

DeSantis delivered Covid booster warning as Florida led the nation in per capita hospitalizations​

About 2,280 people in Florida were hospitalized for Covid as his administration announced controversial guidance.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention released data showing Florida’s hospitalization rate was 10.65 per 100,000 residents during the week ending on Sept. 9. Washington, D.C. was next with 10.06 per 100,000, followed by Arkansas.

In raw numbers, that means about 2,280 people in Florida were hospitalized for Covid-related health issues. It’s a far cry from the height of the pandemic, when the state was shattering nationwide records during the summer of 2021 with more than 10,000 hospitalizations, but still signifies an uptick in cases.

However, per my previous post...his guidance of discouraging a blanket "boosters for all" approach by the CDC, and wanting to limit it to compromised people and people > 65, actually mirrors the guidance of Germany, the UK, France, and the WHO.


So, unless the point is to "arbitrarily do the opposite of DeSantis", this particular one may not be a hill the WH and Blue State governors want to die on.

Unless people are so arrogant as to think the CDC is somehow "above" every other health regulatory body in the world?

 

[Nithavela]

In your earlier years, more than five years ago, i.e. also while growing up,
did you wear a mask ?
I remember not seeing masks in school, in grocery stores, not even in doctor's offices or in hospitals , before five years ago....

They are very common in asian countries.

 

[Aaron112]

So, unless the point is to "arbitrarily do the opposite of DeSantis", this particular one may not be a hill the WH and Blue State governors want to die on.

They may or may not want to agree with a clause he endorsed, DeSantis clause ?

....
hahaha

 

[BPPLEE]

FDA signs off on updated Covid-19 vaccines that target circulating variants​

The US Food and Drug Administration on Monday gave the green light to updated Covid-19 vaccine booster shots from Moderna and Pfizer/BioNTech. The updated vaccines are each approved for people 12 and older and are authorized under emergency use for individuals 6 months through 11 years old. As part of the FDA’s update, the original bivalent Moderna and Pfizer-BioNTech Covid-19 vaccines are no longer authorized for use in the United States.

The mRNA vaccines have been updated to teach the body to fight the XBB.1.5 Omicron subvariant of the coronavirus and other closely related strains that are circulating.

Both vaccine manufacturers have said that testing shows that their vaccines are effective against EG.5, the currently dominant strain in the United States.

After the FDA’s go-ahead, the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices, a group of independent experts that advises the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention on its vaccination decisions, will weigh the safety and effectiveness of the updated vaccines and make recommendations for their use. After the CDC director signs off on those recommendations, the vaccines can be administered.

Under the Affordable Care Act, most insurance plans are covering the full cost of vaccines, without co-pays. So most insured people will be able to get the updated Covid-19 vaccine at their doctor’s offices or pharmacies, such as CVS or Walgreens, at no cost.

I was forced to take the vaccine because I work in a hospital. I will not do it again. I got Covid despite having 2 shots. What’s the point?

 

[BPPLEE]

Given the nature of that study, and given my experience with the difficulties in doing precisely that kind of assessment of the effect of covid boosters based on observational data, I don't think the study tells us anything at all about the effects of boosters on infection risk. I'll get another booster as soon as one is available. I'm pretty sure my two young adult sons won't do so, which I think is a perfectly reasonable decision.

Data, please?

No one is keeping those statistics. It’s an inconvenient truth

 

[Aaron112]

I was forced to take the vaccine because I work in a hospital. I will not do it again. I got Covid despite having 2 shots. What’s the point?

There was no protection against infection, artificially. With other proven healthy good ways already known to millions of people for a century, this is inexcusable that faulty harmful or non-working means were forced upon you and others.

 

[BPPLEE]

There was no protection against infection, artificially. With other proven healthy good ways already known to millions of people for a century, this is inexcusable that faulty harmful or non-working means were forced upon you and others.

I mean if my dog got 3 rabies shots in one year and still got rabies I would be asking the vet some questions.

 

[Aaron112]

I mean if my dog got 3 rabies shots in one year and still got rabies I would be asking the vet some questions.

And so it goes worldwide - those who ask questions FIRST, before getting in trouble, get in trouble for ASKING questions.
Those who know the answers, don't necessarily ask questions, but get in trouble for not gooing along with the system that is in place.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

I mean if my dog got 3 rabies shots in one year and still got rabies I would be asking the vet some questions.

Well, I think part of that was flawed messaging on their part.

At first they had more honest expectations along the lines of "If it performs at the same level as the flu shots, we'll be satisfied" (implying something in the ballpark of being 80% effective against death and hospitalization, and in the neighborhood of 30-40% effective in preventing mild illness)

And in all fairness, the vaccines did outperform those metrics against the original strain, and was still basically "on par" with those metrics during Delta.

However, the urgency conveyed in their messaging and some of the rhetoric centered around "you need to do it for everyone else" seemed to be giving the impression that it was a vaccine that produced near-sterilizing immunity like the rubella vaccine.


The reason why the WHO, Germany, UK, and France have pumped the breaks on "boosters for all" approaches is because it wasn't nearly as polarized for them, and they've recognized that in the midst of Omicron, where the vaccines (even the bivalent boosters) were only 25-35% effective, and offered very little in terms of transmission prevention, so there's really not a huge upside to jabbing health 13 year olds if it's not going to stop them from spreading it, and they're very unlikely to have complications from the virus itself at this point.


As a random analogy...let's just use Aspirin.

Honest messaging would be: "It can lessen the severity of a headache if/when you get one, and for some people, can eliminate the headache completely"
Dishonest messaging would be: "If you take an aspirin every morning, you won't get a headache" (which, if someone does that, and still gets a headache, they're going to start having skepticism of what they've been told...which could lead them down the rabbit hole of hopping on google and finding a bunch of "aspirin horror stories" - that are, in reality, outliers)

It doesn't mean that "Aspirin doesn't work", it just means it's not working the way some people were claiming it was.


I think the same is true of covid vaccines... they work, they just don't work as well as some people were implying.

 

[BPPLEE]

Well, I think part of that was flawed messaging on their part.

At first they had more honest expectations along the lines of "If it performs at the same level as the flu shots, we'll be satisfied" (implying something in the ballpark of being 80% effective against death and hospitalization, and in the neighborhood of 30-40% effective in preventing mild illness)

And in all fairness, the vaccines did outperform those metrics against the original strain, and was still basically "on par" with those metrics during Delta.

However, the urgency conveyed in their messaging and some of the rhetoric centered around "you need to do it for everyone else" seemed to be giving the impression that it was a vaccine that produced near-sterilizing immunity like the rubella vaccine.


The reason why the WHO, Germany, UK, and France have pumped the breaks on "boosters for all" approaches is because it wasn't nearly as polarized for them, and they've recognized that in the midst of Omicron, where the vaccines (even the bivalent boosters) were only 25-35% effective, and offered very little in terms of transmission prevention, so there's really not a huge upside to jabbing health 13 year olds if it's not going to stop them from spreading it, and they're very unlikely to have complications from the virus itself at this point.


As a random analogy...let's just use Aspirin.

Honest messaging would be: "It can lessen the severity of a headache if/when you get one, and for some people, can eliminate the headache completely"
Dishonest messaging would be: "If you take an aspirin every morning, you won't get a headache" (which, if someone does that, and still gets a headache, they're going to start having skepticism of what they've been told...which could lead them down the rabbit hole of hopping on google and finding a bunch of "aspirin horror stories" - that are, in reality, outliers)

It doesn't mean that "Aspirin doesn't work", it just means it's not working the way some people were claiming it was.


I think the same is true of covid vaccines... they work, they just don't work as well as some people were implying.

Did Biden Say You Won't Get COVID if You're Vaccinated?

Biden overstated the efficacy of COVID-19 vaccinations during a July 2021 town hall.

www.snopes.com

 

[ThatRobGuy]

They are very common in asian countries.

Masks being commonplace in Asian countries would be what I would call "the luck of cultural norms" with regards to certain circumstances. Sometimes things people were already used to doing happen to be of benefit for some new curveball that was thrown our way.

It's always going to be easier to simply ask people to keep doing the thing they were already doing vs. getting people to do something that's completely out of the norm for them.

For instance, if there was some sweeping situation involving tainted beef supplies, and they asked everyone to abstain from beef for 3 months while they tried to get it under control. That would be very easy guidance to follow for Hindus, Seventh Day Adventists, and Vegetarians...that was already "the norm" for them anyway. You'd likely get more pushback from people who've been accustomed to eating steak & burgers 3 times a week for the last 20 years.

 

[Nithavela]

Masks being commonplace in Asian countries would be what I would call "the luck of cultural norms" with regards to certain circumstances. Sometimes things people were already used to doing happen to be of benefit for some new curveball that was thrown our way.

It's always going to be easier to simply ask people to keep doing the thing they were already doing vs. getting people to do something that's completely out of the norm for them.

For instance, if there was some sweeping situation involving tainted beef supplies, and they asked everyone to abstain from beef for 3 months while they tried to get it under control. That would be very easy guidance to follow for Hindus, Seventh Day Adventists, and Vegetarians...that was already "the norm" for them anyway. You'd likely get more pushback from people who've been accustomed to eating steak & burgers 3 times a week for the last 20 years.

It's not really luck, though. People in asian countries learned to wear masks because of several pandemics of their own, due to poor hygene in many of their countries.

 

[Aaron112]

Luck? Not likely... with all the other real or frequent detriments they have to live with or under.
Masks for extreme air pollution is not at all indicating masks for disese helps disease ... nor related .