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Forget DOGE: to save the economy, Nationalise Healthcare and end the war on drugs!

eclipsenow

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HEALTHCARE: Many Americans are not aware that they are paying double for healthcare and not getting universal coverage. (Hard data below - but I've got to get through the introductory concepts).

DRUGS: The war on drugs makes them pay about 5 times as much for jails, and who can estimate all the extra policing and legal costs?

Healthcare​

1742271379984.png

Estimates are that America would save $1 to $1.5 TRILLION ANNUALLY if they nationalised healthcare. Note - I'm NOT saying "Medicare for all" or whatever you call expanding your current fragmented, bloated, privatised, overly expensive system. That system must be nationalised by legislative decree.
Not every hospital - there will still be some private healthcare and some private insurance for those extras. Australia has private healthcare insurance and private hospitals.

But we have a massive public health system. When my son got cancer 20 something years ago - we practically lived in that hospital for 6 months. All pretty much free! I had to take my own meals in or buy the café food whatever - but the medical care my son received cost maybe $250,000. The government paid it. But here's the thing. America's fractured healthcare system drives up costs. Australia's Federal government pays half - and the States the other. In some areas the States rock up to the marketplace and can command significant economies of scale. When the FEDERAL government purchases pharmaceuticals it can really command some savings!

So in America - I'm guessing saving my son's life would have cost at least $500,000! Oh - and I would have had a nervous breakdown trying to get the health insurer to pay. Or had to sell my house to hire the lawyer to make them! It seems the private hospital CEO gets his next yacht before my son gets to live. But if it's nationalised - the hospital CEO becomes a public servant. They cannot grab shares in the hospital or command the same unfair and crazy perks. It's still a great salary! But not insane.

The following conclusions come from The Commonwealth Fund - a US think tank exploring GLOBAL trends in healthcare and comparing them to the USA. They conclude:-
  • Health care spending, both per person and as a share of GDP, continues to be far higher in the United States than in other high-income countries. Yet the U.S. is the only country that doesn’t have universal health coverage.
  • The U.S. has the lowest life expectancy at birth, the highest death rates for avoidable or treatable conditions, the highest maternal and infant mortality, and among the highest suicide rates.
  • The U.S. has the highest rate of people with multiple chronic conditions and an obesity rate nearly twice the OECD average.
  • Americans see physicians less often than people in most other countries and have among the lowest rate of practicing physicians and hospital beds per 1,000 population.
  • Screening rates for breast and colorectal cancer and vaccination for flu in the U.S. are among the highest, but COVID-19 vaccination trails many nations.
https://www.commonwealthfund.org/pu...23/jan/us-health-care-global-perspective-2022
The American fiscal studies foundation - the Peter Peterson foundation - concluded: “U.S. healthcare spending per capita is almost twice the average of other wealthy countries”
How Does the U.S. Healthcare System Compare to Other Countries?
"For example, the average cost in the U.S. for an MRI scan was $1,119, compared to $811 in New Zealand, $215 in Australia and $181 in Spain. However, data showed that 95th percentile in the price of this procedure in the U.S. was $3,031, meaning some people are paying nearly $3,000 more for a standard MRI scan in the U.S. than the average person in Australia and Spain. "
6 Reasons Healthcare Is So Expensive in the U.S.
VOX explains what went wrong.
Check the wiki studies and try and prove all the sources are ‘Communists’ if you must!
Healthcare in the United States - Wikipedia
Even British Comedian and activist Stephen Fry agrees!


The War on Drugs has failed​

It's been going for decades and getting the same result. Why?
When you limit supply, you drive up the price.
The high price creates an IRRESISTABLE incentive for drug cartels to grow.
They now rival huge corporations or some militaries and have their own engineers.
They build tunnels and even submarines!

COST TO AMERICA
The USA has 5% of the world’s population, but 25% of the world’s inmates.
That's 5 times the jails! How much does that cost in extra policing, legal cases, court time - let alone the penal system?
Are Americans really 5 times more criminal than the rest of the world?
No - they are suffering from a failed drug criminalisation scheme.
Comparison of United States incarceration rate with other countries - Wikipedia

An estimated 65% percent of the United States prison population has an active drug habit.
2007 shows drug related crime cost $113 billion.

IF WE CANNOT BAN IT - THEN WHAT?
Convert the ‘War on Drugs’ into a mental health model. Decriminalise drug use.
The Penrose Effect shows that there is an inverse relationship between the availability of mental health treatment infrastructure and incarceration rates. Countries investing more in mental health services often experience lower incarceration rates, suggesting that addressing mental health can reduce the burden on the criminal justice system. The Penrose Effect and its acceleration by the war on drugs: a crisis of untranslated neuroscience and untreated addiction and mental illness - Translational Psychiatry

If cops catch a user - they take the user to mental health services.
Eradicate illegal supply by undermining the market! Provide safe injecting rooms! Clinics supply regulated, cleaner, safer drugs that reduce overdoses. Why rob a corner store or sell yourself for prostitution when you can get drugs for free? Also on hand - free medical check-ups, free counselling, contact with social workers if they need housing, etc. Data from overseas shows that it massively reduces the burden on police, courts, jails - and actually helps give users a sense of dignity and helps many become drug free and deal with their problems and return to functional members of society with jobs and a purpose.
So - war on drugs to help the cartels grow? Or war on a silly policy that takes people with a mental health condition - and throws them in jail and gives them a REAL education in becoming a criminal?
 

Fantine

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US News and World Report had an article I never forgot, saying health care is 'not' responsive to market forces. The best healthcare was the VA (and, since my husband has it, I strongly agree, from experience.)
 
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Bradskii

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I think that a lot of forum members on the right of the political spectrum will either ignore this thread OR ignore the facts illustrated in this thread.
 
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eclipsenow

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I think that a lot of forum members on the right of the political spectrum will either ignore this thread OR ignore the facts illustrated in this thread.
Yep!
 
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dogs4thewin

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I agree with the war on drugs ending should have a LONG time ago.

as to healthcare I do believe that health insurance should be optional in terms of being covered just realize that it is STILL cheaper to do things preventive and "not being able to afford" for example screenings does not change that.
 
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eclipsenow

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I agree with the war on drugs ending should have a LONG time ago.

as to healthcare I do believe that health insurance should be optional in terms of being covered just realize that it is STILL cheaper to do things preventive and "not being able to afford" for example screenings does not change that.
In Australia health insurance is for extra's like faster treatment on less urgent care, extra cosmetic procedures, your choice of specialist - stuff like that.

But again - I'm NOT talking about universal insurance so everyone in America can access the current system - but the government providing the healthcare itself through government hospitals etc.

They still buy medicine from private big pharma, supplies from private manufacturers, etc. But every citizen should receive free basic healthcare.

The profit motive seems to work in support systems like the pharma and equipment supplies above. But the actual hospitals and doctors treating your child in an emergency? They're run by the profit motive - it's called having a good job!

The hospital itself being under pressure to generate a profit for shareholders? That's a recipe for cutting staff, lowering services and generally cutting costs to maximise profits.

The global data is in. It has been for decades! There are some basic human rights sectors that the government does more reliably than the market!

It's not perfect by any means.

But if you nationalised healthcare your whole society would benefit, see doctors more regularly, get healthier, oh and look! An extra trillion dollars a year!

That would reveal Doge to be the joke and insult that it is
 
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dogs4thewin

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In Australia health insurance is for extra's like faster treatment on less urgent care, extra cosmetic procedures, your choice of specialist - stuff like that.

But again - I'm NOT talking about universal insurance so everyone in America can access the current system - but the government providing the healthcare itself through government hospitals etc.

They still buy medicine from private big pharma, supplies from private manufacturers, etc. But every citizen should receive free basic healthcare.

The profit motive seems to work in support systems like the pharma and equipment supplies above. But the actual hospitals and doctors treating your child in an emergency? They're run by the profit motive - it's called having a good job!

The hospital itself being under pressure to generate a profit for shareholders? That's a recipe for cutting staff, lowering services and generally cutting costs to maximise profits.

The global data is in. It has been for decades! There are some basic human rights sectors that the government does more reliably than the market!

It's not perfect by any means.

But if you nationalised healthcare your whole society would benefit, see doctors more regularly, get healthier, oh and look! An extra trillion dollars a year!

That would reveal Doge to be the joke and insult that it is
Actually, funny enough there is a private hospital in my area and a public (government) hospital. If given a choice I am going to go private every time ( Which basicly means as long as I not out cold and they are taking patients I am going private. The public hospital in my recent experenice with my family people I have heard about has a VERY bad track record of not providing proper care and trying to send people home too soon.
 
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eclipsenow

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Actually, funny enough there is a private hospital in my area and a public (government) hospital. If given a choice I am going to go private every time ( Which basically means as long as I not out cold and they are taking patients I am going private. The public hospital in my recent experenice with my family people I have heard about has a VERY bad track record of not providing proper care and trying to send people home too soon.
Sure. When America's healthcare budget is DOUBLE the OECD average because you've got to pay for big pharma CEOs to have their second holiday house for their annual skiing trips in Switzerland - it does mean that there's less money to go around to whatever government hospitals there are in your area.

Note: I'm busy and don't have time to research what hospital this is - and whether or not that's a biased news item you might have heard about that hospital's reputation. Also - I have a local public hospital I avoid with a bad reputation. It's about to get a huge make-over. But for whatever systemic reason - it's got such a bad rep that my church men's group think there should be a badge, "I survived Ryde!"

But our Royal North Shore Public Hospital and many others have amazing service and reputations!

To be fair - there's another thing I should mention about American healthcare - but it's more a function of you having a larger civilisation. That is - with 330 MILLION citizens - and us only having 25 M, you get to afford more of the world's top super-specialists than we do. But again - that's a function of size, not system.

I'm just pointing out that if you nationalised healthcare everyone would have treatment at half the cost.
And you would not have to have your insurance papers out or get into legal fights with the insurer and all that malarkey.
 
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Bradskii

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But our Royal North Shore Public Hospital and many others have amazing service and reputations!
Hey, my wife used to work there. Wages department, not medical though.
 
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eclipsenow

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Hey, my wife used to work there. Wages department, not medical though.
They're awesome - and have saved the lives of a number of my family!
 
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Bradskii

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They're awesome - and have saved the lives of a number of my family!
What? The wages department were saving lives as well? Nah, I know what you mean. Yeah, it's a good hospital. Used to work just around the corner. Sometimes ran laps at luchtime around the AFL pitch out the front.
 
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Pommer

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HEALTHCARE: Many Americans are not aware that they are paying double for healthcare and not getting universal coverage. (Hard data below - but I've got to get through the introductory concepts).

DRUGS: The war on drugs makes them pay about 5 times as much for jails, and who can estimate all the extra policing and legal costs?

Healthcare​

View attachment 362359
Estimates are that America would save $1 to $1.5 TRILLION ANNUALLY if they nationalised healthcare. Note - I'm NOT saying "Medicare for all" or whatever you call expanding your current fragmented, bloated, privatised, overly expensive system. That system must be nationalised by legislative decree.
Not every hospital - there will still be some private healthcare and some private insurance for those extras. Australia has private healthcare insurance and private hospitals.

But we have a massive public health system. When my son got cancer 20 something years ago - we practically lived in that hospital for 6 months. All pretty much free! I had to take my own meals in or buy the café food whatever - but the medical care my son received cost maybe $250,000. The government paid it. But here's the thing. America's fractured healthcare system drives up costs. Australia's Federal government pays half - and the States the other. In some areas the States rock up to the marketplace and can command significant economies of scale. When the FEDERAL government purchases pharmaceuticals it can really command some savings!

So in America - I'm guessing saving my son's life would have cost at least $500,000! Oh - and I would have had a nervous breakdown trying to get the health insurer to pay. Or had to sell my house to hire the lawyer to make them! It seems the private hospital CEO gets his next yacht before my son gets to live. But if it's nationalised - the hospital CEO becomes a public servant. They cannot grab shares in the hospital or command the same unfair and crazy perks. It's still a great salary! But not insane.

The following conclusions come from The Commonwealth Fund - a US think tank exploring GLOBAL trends in healthcare and comparing them to the USA. They conclude:-
  • Health care spending, both per person and as a share of GDP, continues to be far higher in the United States than in other high-income countries. Yet the U.S. is the only country that doesn’t have universal health coverage.
  • The U.S. has the lowest life expectancy at birth, the highest death rates for avoidable or treatable conditions, the highest maternal and infant mortality, and among the highest suicide rates.
  • The U.S. has the highest rate of people with multiple chronic conditions and an obesity rate nearly twice the OECD average.
  • Americans see physicians less often than people in most other countries and have among the lowest rate of practicing physicians and hospital beds per 1,000 population.
  • Screening rates for breast and colorectal cancer and vaccination for flu in the U.S. are among the highest, but COVID-19 vaccination trails many nations.
https://www.commonwealthfund.org/pu...23/jan/us-health-care-global-perspective-2022
The American fiscal studies foundation - the Peter Peterson foundation - concluded: “U.S. healthcare spending per capita is almost twice the average of other wealthy countries”
How Does the U.S. Healthcare System Compare to Other Countries?
"For example, the average cost in the U.S. for an MRI scan was $1,119, compared to $811 in New Zealand, $215 in Australia and $181 in Spain. However, data showed that 95th percentile in the price of this procedure in the U.S. was $3,031, meaning some people are paying nearly $3,000 more for a standard MRI scan in the U.S. than the average person in Australia and Spain. "
6 Reasons Healthcare Is So Expensive in the U.S.
VOX explains what went wrong.
Check the wiki studies and try and prove all the sources are ‘Communists’ if you must!
Healthcare in the United States - Wikipedia
Even British Comedian and activist Stephen Fry agrees!


The War on Drugs has failed​

It's been going for decades and getting the same result. Why?
When you limit supply, you drive up the price.
The high price creates an IRRESISTABLE incentive for drug cartels to grow.
They now rival huge corporations or some militaries and have their own engineers.
They build tunnels and even submarines!

COST TO AMERICA
The USA has 5% of the world’s population, but 25% of the world’s inmates.
That's 5 times the jails! How much does that cost in extra policing, legal cases, court time - let alone the penal system?
Are Americans really 5 times more criminal than the rest of the world?
No - they are suffering from a failed drug criminalisation scheme.
Comparison of United States incarceration rate with other countries - Wikipedia

An estimated 65% percent of the United States prison population has an active drug habit.
2007 shows drug related crime cost $113 billion.

IF WE CANNOT BAN IT - THEN WHAT?
Convert the ‘War on Drugs’ into a mental health model. Decriminalise drug use.
The Penrose Effect shows that there is an inverse relationship between the availability of mental health treatment infrastructure and incarceration rates. Countries investing more in mental health services often experience lower incarceration rates, suggesting that addressing mental health can reduce the burden on the criminal justice system. The Penrose Effect and its acceleration by the war on drugs: a crisis of untranslated neuroscience and untreated addiction and mental illness - Translational Psychiatry

If cops catch a user - they take the user to mental health services.
Eradicate illegal supply by undermining the market! Provide safe injecting rooms! Clinics supply regulated, cleaner, safer drugs that reduce overdoses. Why rob a corner store or sell yourself for prostitution when you can get drugs for free? Also on hand - free medical check-ups, free counselling, contact with social workers if they need housing, etc. Data from overseas shows that it massively reduces the burden on police, courts, jails - and actually helps give users a sense of dignity and helps many become drug free and deal with their problems and return to functional members of society with jobs and a purpose.
So - war on drugs to help the cartels grow? Or war on a silly policy that takes people with a mental health condition - and throws them in jail and gives them a REAL education in becoming a criminal?
So the US’s choice would be between paying more for less service or “change something” to pay less and get better service for most people, “free” at the point of that service?

Well, we still have baseball. That should tell us something.
 
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eclipsenow

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So the US’s choice would be between paying more for less service or “change something” to pay less and get better service for most people, “free” at the point of that service?

Well, we still have baseball. That should tell us something.
Change something! BIG TIME!

NOT "Medicare for all" which just takes today's overly expensive system and bankrupts America trying to give it to everyone!

Instead - changing the system.
The government buying many of the private hospitals and running them as true government owned public hospitals.
The government buying bulk meds of big pharma - instead of today's fractured, broken, weak tendering system.
That big bulk purchase would command RESPECT as well as economies of scale to drive down the price!

So instead of a private CEO of a hospital - a public servant is the hospital General Manager.
Still on a good salary - but not a ridiculous salary.

Maybe half or more of your private health insurance firms that just take a bunch of medical money and spend it on marketing and CEO salaries and paying back shareholders and trying to earn 'profit' from a hospital - half or more of these insurers leeching off the system would just disappear!

Medicare for all = government insurance of today's system that is overly expensive, profit driven, and CEO favouring.
Nationalization = government OWNERSHIP and delivery of the hospitals - and the tendering with big pharma.

(Not all hospitals - but at least something like half - something with Australia's ratios.)

Google it! America's healthcare under delivers against the average OECD metrics.
But it costs you guys twice as much!
It's a scam for private hospital CEO's and health insurer CEO's to go skiing in Switzerland each year.
 
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FireDragon76

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The point is not to save the economy.

I suspect some people funding the Right in the US want to loot the empire as it falls, just like the Goths and Vandals did many centuries ago to the Romans.
 
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eclipsenow

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What funny timing!

This is what I wrote on my blog today:

Why is the EU military like American healthcare?​

A: Both have fragmented, broken supply lines that do tiny little individual purchase tenders. American healthcare needs to take a lesson from the American military!​
I’ve just been having this massive debate about how Australian healthcare covers ALL our citizens at HALF the cost of America’s! One reason? Their privatised, fractured, profit-driven states buy their own meds. Rather than the one massive PBS system putting out tenders the private sector CANNOT ignore – sometimes in the USA it’s even down to a little network of private hospitals trying to negotiate fair treatment!​
BUT NOW their Big Pharma have their eyes on us – and are whining that the PBS buys generic rather than name-brand! How DARE we buy generic! How DARE we rip off Big Pharma!​
They claim we are stifling innovation! That's outrageous. By the time there's a generic version of a pill the original patent has expired. That means the 'innovation' has been more than fairly compensated! It's all lies by big CEO's fearful for their holiday plans. Also, like the best lies? They repeat it until you've heard it 3 or 4 times in the one article, so you feel it must be true!​
I mean – how is their CEO going to buy his next chalet in Switzerland for his many skiing vacations?​





This method of providing cheaper healthcare for all is so ingrained in our culture that even our 'right wing' Liberal Party (and Nationals - together called the Coalition) are LEFT OF YOUR DEMOCRATS!

This is why I say America has no left!

Nationalised healthcare works so much better than the American mess!

But as to your Big Pharma - just look at them cry! I've highlighted their repeated lie in red.
But all I hear is "Waaaaa, waaaaaa, waaaaaaaaa!"

Finally - the last line is an ominous warning for any Americans dreaming of adopting their own PBS.

---ABC---


American medical giants have labelled the federal government's Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme (PBS) "egregious and discriminatory" and have pressed US President Donald Trump to target Australia when he imposes sweeping "reciprocal tariffs" on trading partners next month.

A lengthy letter sent from a US pharmaceutical industry representative body to US trade representative Jamieson Greer said the PBS amounted to "damaging pricing policies" that undervalued American innovation and threatened billions of dollars in lost sales.

Under the PBS, the government negotiates prices directly with suppliers to make them cheaper for Australians.

The independent Pharmaceutical Benefits Advisory Committee (PBAC) recommends which medicines are listed on the PBS, with about 930 prescription medicines currently on the scheme.

The letter argues this process "systematically devalues US medicines" and fails to "appropriately recognise innovation" by preferencing cheaper "generic" versions of medicines rather than the higher-priced originals in some circumstances.

"[Australia] penalises legitimate efforts by innovators to protect their intellectual property rights," the letter read.

The Trump administration intends to impose fresh tariffs in April on countries it believes employ "unfair" trade practices, a term that has been applied extremely broadly, including to sales taxes such as Australia's GST.​

The purpose of the letter is to encourage the Trump administration to regard the PBS, and several other medicine schemes around the world, as an unfair practice and impose tariffs in response, for instance on Australia's own pharmaceutical exports into the US.​

'No way' PBS will change, say Labor ministers​

Labor has already categorically ruled out touching the PBS in any trade negotiations, and ministers have been quick to emphasise the Trump administration could not exert any direct influence on the scheme.​
"There's no way we're going to change the PBS because of advocacy of any other country," Health Minister Mark Butler said on Sunday.​

"This is a cherished part of the Australian healthcare system, one that Labor has fought for 75 years."

Health Minister Mark Butler said the PBS was a "cherished part of Australia's health system" and would not change. (ABC News: Kate Nickels)​
Trade Minister Don Farrell on Sunday dismissed discussion about the PBS as "speculation" and said he had "not heard one comment from any person in the United States" on the subject.​

"There will be absolutely nothing that the Americans can do to impact on our health system or the PBS system," he said.​

"And we certainly would not contemplate doing anything at any stage that makes our health system more expensive."​
Instead, the government fears that frustrations over the PBS could see the Trump administration retaliate by hitting Australian pharmaceutical exports — which were worth $US1.2 billion ($1.89 billion) in 2023 — with punitive tariffs.​

"Australia's market are significant to the industry, but it's a big global industry. In just raw political terms in Washington, the pharmaceutical industry has more political clout in the United States than it has in Australia," he told the ABC."

---​
More below​
 
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