FDA greenlights updated vaccines that better target currently circulating variants

[Aaron112]

I learned long ago to pay more attention to data than to people's opinions.

Excellent !

Which diseases did you learn about that have 6 weeks immunity from vaccination and lifetime immunity from infection?

The current one
and chickenpox ("everyone" knew this once-upon-a-time) ....

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

Which tells me nothing at all about whether the virus itself is less virulent or the population has acquired more immunity by now. If you will recall, the original Omicron variant was touted as causing less severe disease (and it did, compared to Alpha or Delta), but it still caused a horrific death toll when it moved into a large immune-naive population in Hong Kong.

There is no mechanism that in general makes viruses cause less severe disease over time. If a virus causes really severe disease most of time, it may face selection pressure to cause more mild disease, but SARS-Cov-2 has never been in that category.

It sure sounds suspiciously like a cold. Even the article concedes this.

Could something mysteriously mutate into a more virulent form even though that is not common? Sure, it's possible. Anything is possible but another factor is also going on if that happens. And of course vulnerable people, those who are sick or elderly or whose immune system is seriously impaired always have more risk for anything...even a cold.

 

[Aaron112]

And of course vulnerable people, those who are sick or elderly or whose immune system is seriously impaired always have more risk for anything...even a cold.

As noted years ago. Likewise noted by the President of the USA years ago were the ways
to
naturally strengthen the immune system ... to prevent even a cold often enough...
without putting the persons life in danger with unknowns and such.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

Yes. I hope you realize that vaccines work by triggering the immune system, too.

I can't remember things that I know are false. No vaccine, including covid vaccines, provides 100% protection against infection or severe disease. They never have.

So infection-acquired immunity is 100%?

Wait, now I'm confused. Infection produces immunity and two doses of vaccine produces a similar level of protection as infection, therefore vaccination doesn't produce immunity? Huh?

Which is very similar to the reduction in the chance of hospitalization and death seen with vaccination. Make up your mind: is this immunity or not?

That's what they say, because there will never be an admission that none of this was necessary nor affected the outcome in any significant way. Had we done absolutely nothing but contract it, as nearly everyone did, whether they became ill or not, and then go about our business, while the elderly or those with multiple co-morbidities distanced, as is simply wise, we would have had the same outcome. Or better.

But we rushed a brand new drug with a lot of side effects, which you can read about if you dig into the paperwork, you know....what they demanded to keep hidden for 75 years until a judge said no. Now they are dribbling it out as slow as possible. The release didn't start until March 2022, because it was tied up in litigation instead of just freely delivered.

"The nonprofit that won the case, Public Health and Medical Professionals for Transparency, sued the FDAopens in a new tab or window last September, claiming that the agency denied its request to expedite the release of COVID-19 vaccine review documents via the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA). In a November joint status report, the FDA proposedopens in a new tab or window releasing around 500 pages of the documents each month -- which would fulfill the organization's FOIA request in about 55 to 75 years."

FDA Begins Releasing Pfizer COVID Vax Documents

Court-ordered release runs risk of 'cherry picking and taking things out of context'

www.medpagetoday.com

1291 side effects, last I recall.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

Some number have a natural immunity NOT from getting sick , but from having a healthy immune system, a healthy mind and body, to START WITH.
Some of them Got Sick if they took a jab, so they learned to avoid them.
They maintain a stronger immune system, a healthier body and mind, through prayer and good nutrition as they have learned from others and from experience.

That's true. Some people get exposed and never ever show any symptoms at all. That is an enviable group, for sure. And one we pray and endeavor to be a part of in any future pandemic. We did get it here, but symptoms were mild, but longer lasting in the oldest members of the family, and almost nothing in the young ones.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

"So infection-acquired immunity is 100%?"

And natural immunity too.
At least always shown to be better than artificial acquired .....

In grade school and high school we learned that adults who had certain diseases as an infant or as a child, had lifetime immunity.
In college and later, and medical school,
we learned that artificial-acquired immunity often did not last more than six months or a year,
and sometimes not even six weeks.

Natural immunity is always better than vaccine-induced immunity.

Chicken pox for example. Not fun, but that was a once and done, back in the day. Now people get it mildly and sometimes repetitively. Hmm.

I once cared for a relative who had chicken pox and got titered, as I had never had it. But wait....my sibs had it and I was exposed but didn't get ill. Decades later immunity was still in full force, but that only registers when one is exposed to the virus, which I was because of exposure to the sick relative.

Thats why all this "I have antibodies from the vaccine" that was constantly hawked was so misleading. The antibodies that matter show up from the T cells and other parts of the body to fight when mustered, because your body had a previous exposure.

 

[Aaron112]

That's true. Some people get exposed and never ever show any symptoms at all. That is an enviable group, for sure.

There are a lot of people I think, and probably reported in many studies or the news,
who never showed any symptoms at all.
Similar, to my way of thinking, as reported back decades ago from Loyola Medical University and others, that you and I and most people in the usa have /get/ cancer several times a year due (they said) to pollution, but
the cancer remains undetected usually, and goes away "on its own" like a cold does when ignored,
because people naturally , their own white blood cells et al immune system,
deals with cancer before it is larger than a few cells...
Some people might have cancer for years and never know it, and their body deals with it, naturally.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

There are a lot of people I think, and probably reported in many studies or the news,
who never showed any symptoms at all.
Similar, to my way of thinking, as reported back decades ago from Loyola Medical University and others, that you and I and most people in the usa have /get/ cancer several times a year due (they said) to pollution, but
the cancer remains undetected usually, and goes away "on its own" like a cold does when ignored,
because people naturally , their own white blood cells et al immune system,
deals with cancer before it is larger than a few cells...
Some people might have cancer for years and never know it, and their body deals with it, naturally.

All true.

 

[Aaron112]

1291 side effects, last I recall.

Side effects from the shots?

 

[sfs]

The current one

Um, you're under the impression that getting sick with covid provides you with lifetime protection against ever being infected with it again? What?

and chickenpox ("everyone" knew this once-upon-a-time) ....

So your claim is that no one who's been infected with chickenpox gets it again (false -- reinfection is rare but it occurs) and protection from the chickenpox vaccine lasts for six weeks (obviously false)?

 

[sfs]

It sure sounds suspiciously like a cold.

At the moment, with widespread immunity from vaccination and infection and with effective treatments available, an average of about 90 Americans are dying every day from covid. Colds do not kill 90 Americans per day.

Could something mysteriously mutate into a more virulent form even though that is not common?

What makes you think that lower virulence is more common than higher virulence when viruses mutate?

 

[Pommer]

Um, you're under the impression that getting sick with covid provides you with lifetime protection against ever being infected with it again? What?

So your claim is that no one who's been infected with chickenpox gets it again (false -- reinfection is rare but it occurs) and protection from the chickenpox vaccine lasts for six weeks (obviously false)?

Reinfection with varicella zoster virus is commonly known as “shingles”; and yet there’s a vaccine for this as well.

 

[sfs]

That's what they say

That's what who says? You posted quotations that directly contradicted your claims. Are you even reading what you're writing?

there will never be an admission that none of this was necessary nor affected the outcome in any significant way. Had we done absolutely nothing but contract it, as nearly everyone did, whether they became ill or not, and then go about our business, while the elderly or those with multiple co-morbidities distanced, as is simply wise, we would have had the same outcome. Or better.

Total nonsense -- deadly nonsense, in fact. While Americans were getting immunity the 'natural' way, a million of them died from covid. Many of them were not elderly. And how were we supposed to protect the elderly -- by 'distancing' from them forever?

Here's what happened when covid (the 'mild' Omicron variant' moved into two societies. Both had kept it at bay for the first year but couldn't stop Omicron. The top of the graph shows how many were infected and the bottom how many died. Would you care to guess which country had an effective vaccination campaign and which didn't? You think we should have done what the country on the left did. I'd rather go with the one on the right.

 

[sfs]

Reinfection with varicella zoster virus is commonly known as “shingles”

That's generally persistent infection, not reinfection.

 

[Always in His Presence]

DeSantis discourages latest covid boosters (for those under 65), contradicting federal guidance​

Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis (R) and the state’s surgeon general are warning residents under age 65 against the new coronavirus booster, going against the advice of federal health officials who have recommended the shots.

“I will not stand by and let the FDA and CDC use healthy Floridians as guinea pigs for new booster shots that have not been proven to be safe or effective,” DeSantis said in a statement after the callwith Ladapo and other doctors, which opened with the title “No way FDA.”


My advice is to prioritize the advice from the CDC and FDA over the governor.

My advice is to have each person make their own decision on what they put into their bodies.

My opinion is the Governor is not wrong

I got the first shots and one booster I do NOT intend to get any more.

Ditto.

 

[Always in His Presence]

In the Politico/Morning Consult poll, 79 percent of Democrats said they planned to get the updated shot, but only 39 percent of Republicans said the same.

That is why I side with the Republicans - we agree on a wide variety of things and the COVID jab in one we agree not to take.

 

[essentialsaltes]

That is why I side with the Republicans - we agree on a wide variety of things and the COVID jab in one we agree not to take.

In the post right before this, you said you were going to make your own decision, and now you're citing a poll of Republicans as a reason to join them. If jumping off a bridge polled well with Republicans, would you jump off a bridge?

 

[Wings like Eagles]

Side effects from the shots?

 

[Always in His Presence]

In the post right before this, you said you were going to make your own decision, and now you're citing a poll of Republicans as a reason to join them. If jumping off a bridge polled well with Republicans, would you jump off a bridge?

You seem to be mistaking the fact that I can make up my own mind and actually find like minded people? BTW - there are millions of us.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

I see it as a good thing that they're making an updated version for people who are in serious "at-risk" categories so that they have it as a tool in the toolbelt. I have 3 prior Pfizer doses and two prior infections, I don't plan on taking this next one. Being that it doesn't stop transmission, and it's no more serious than the already-existing omicron subvariants (which I've already had, and I handled it just fine)...doesn't make a lot of sense for my situation being that I'm a guy in his 30's with a healthy bodyweight.


Although, I think it's more of the messaging surrounding it that will cause turmoil.

For instance.
On September 13th, the CDC issued a recommendation that everyone over the age of 6 months old get the updated booster.

Later that day, the Florida Surgeon General spoke (with DeSantis by his side), basically challenging the CDC's guidance and advising that young & healthy people don't need to get it.

Naturally, everyone rushed to their battle stations (because it's DeSantis - and he's a polarizing figure) based on looking at the situation through a "domestic lens".

Where it gets interesting is that the position of DeSantis and Lapado is actually the one that's on par with the public health recommendations of many European countries and the WHO.

For instance, 5 days after this happened, Germany issued their guidance:
Germany's public health body, the Robert Koch Institute, said that the country's vaccine advisory panel of independent experts, known as STIKO, reiterated its recommendation that booster shots beyond a standard COVID vaccination course should only given to certain at-risk groups.

Not long before this, The WHO stated: "There is no evidence at present that healthy children and adolescents need updated booster doses of COVID-19 vaccine, the World Health Organization's chief scientist Soumya Swaminathan said"

The United Kingdom announced in August that autumn boosters would be offered only to the most-vulnerable individuals, such as adults aged 65 and older and health-care workers.

France does not recommend an autumn booster for people not in vulnerable groups.


We've now gotten to a point where "following the science" isn't so clear cut (provided one is considering what other countries are doing and not just looking at the US public health bodies). With regards to updated boosters, there's no longer the same expert consensus as there was with the original 2-dose regimen.

In fact, the US's public health bodies may start becoming the outlier in promoting "boosters for all over 6 months old" if they keep that approach going.