Extensive salt deposits falsify the worldwide flood

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

Not exactly, you see you claim that your trying to falsify the world wide flood. Or more exactly, your trying to falsify that the highlands were underwater, because everyone seems to accept that the low lands, world wide were flooded. Ok, so lets say you accomplish your objective. Then all of a sudden you say: "Young Earth Creationism was falsied".

Now, what was your objective? To falsify the world wide flood, or was your objective to really falisify Young Earth Creationism? Because just to falsify a world wide flood does not falsify Young Earth Creationism. In order to do that, you have to falsify that the earth is YOUNG. But you say, I have all this evidence for an old earth. Yes, but what about the earth we know today. Even if there was a old earth, the earth we know today is very young. It began at the end of the last ice age about 14,000 years ago. Pretty much as the Bible says.

In fact, the Bible tells us about the old earth, and the young earth at the same time. That is why both theorys are true. Only I believe the days in Genesis represent 1000 years and are not a literal 24 hour day. The world as we know it today, has been around for about 12 to 14 thousand years. 13,970 years, to be exact.

Young Earth Creationism claims that the earth is 6000 to 10,000 years old and that most of the world's sedimentary geology was deposited by a worldwide flood that did indeed cover the highest of the highlands. This view was falsified long ago and some of the falsifications are discussed in threads that are linked to the OP. IIRC You have posted on some biogeography in the Philipinnes that falsify the claim that all of the world was underwater at one time. The flood of Noah as a worldwide event that deposited much of the geologic column and fossil record is a central tenant of YEC. Without it YEC has no explanation for the existence of multiple layers of sedimentary rock and a fossil record that indicates to science that a succesion of different life forms have lived on earth over vast stretches of time.

When you are talking about the world as we know it you must still be allowing great ages for the world that was before the world as we know it based on what you have posted before. In any case I don't think the world was so different between ice ages, except that some pretty different animals were around. Namely the pliestocene megafauna were around up until after the end of the last ice age and of course animals were very different millions of years ago. The climate was probably less stable before the last few thousand years and of course continents were in different places hundreds of millions of years ago. Whatever you think about the last ice age the earth as a planet has been around far more that 13,970 years.

Now maybe some Young Earth Creationist who believes that the flood of Noah covered all of the earth even the highest mountains and somehow deposited much of the geologic column and fossil record would like to comment on all the unrefuted falsifications of that viewpoint that have been posted on the unrefuted thread or give an actual explanation of the massive salt deposits that are found between layers of supposed flood deposits.

The Frumious Bandesnatch

 

[JohnR7]

Young Earth Creationism claims that the earth is 6000 to 10,000 years old and that most of the world's sedimentary geology was deposited by a worldwide flood that did indeed cover the highest of the highlands.

Maybe they are purists. They can not accept that there was a world here before the one we are now living in. So they try to do mental gymnastics to fit the old world somewhere into the modern world we live in. Sort of like sowing a new patch onto an old garment.

Whatever you think about the last ice age the earth as a planet has been around far more that 13,970 years.

Yes, but I am a dispensationist. I beleive one age or era ends, before a new one begins. Everything has to build on what was here before. The old has to end, for the new to begin.

John 12:24
Most assuredly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the ground and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it produces much grain.

1 Cor. 15:36
Foolish one, what you sow is not made alive unless it dies.

 

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

Since we have a new crop of YEC around I thought I would bump this thread. Can any YEC explain how massive amounts of water evaporated to deposit salt during a worldwide flood. The only creationist responders the first time were John who is not YEC and dayton who IIRC turned out to be troll who was only mascarading as a YEC.

the frumious Bandersnatch

 

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

So where is the YEC "interpretation" that allows for the evaporation of enough water to deposit trillions of tons of salt in various places around the world in the middle of a global flood? I first posted this last August and we still haven't seen any YEC explanation for all that salt.

the frumious Bandersnatch

 

[JohnR7]

John who is not YEC

I am YEC, I am also OEC. I believe that both are true. The world that was here before, up to the last ice age was destroyed. God created a new world at that time. There was a small remenant from the old world, that somehow survived over into the new.

 

[Gracchus]

John 12:24
Most assuredly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the ground and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it produces much grain.

1 Cor. 15:36
Foolish one, what you sow is not made alive unless it dies.

Actually the seed is alive. If it is killed it doesn't sprout. So Jesus got it wrong. Paul got it wrong. (So who was the foolish one?) Or at least the Bible misquoted them. If we can't believe Jesus why should we believe Genesis?

Have a nice day!

 

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

Actually the seed is alive. If it is killed it doesn't sprout. So Jesus got it wrong. Paul got it wrong. (So who was the foolish one?) Or at least the Bible misquoted them. If we can't believe Jesus why should we believe Genesis?

Have a nice day!

OK, now would some YEC who believes that the global flood deposited some significant (though never identified exactly) portion of the earth sedimentary geology like to try to tell us where all that salt came from?

the frumious Bandersnatch

 

[Follower of Christ]

Actually the seed is alive. If it is killed it doesn't sprout. So Jesus got it wrong. Paul got it wrong. (So who was the foolish one?) Or at least the Bible misquoted them. If we can't believe Jesus why should we believe Genesis?

Have a nice day!

Well, Im not sure why its worded that way.....

Except that part of the seed obviously does get buried and dies and the germ then comes to life........

Precisely what happened to Christ...

The shell (the body) DIED, and was put into the ground but His Living Spirit (the germ) did not...

 

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

Well, Im not sure why its worded that way.....

Except that part of the seed obviously does get buried and dies and the germ then comes to life........

Precisely what happened to Christ...

The shell (the body) DIED, and was put into the ground but His Living Spirit (the germ) did not...

OK, Now would you like to try to explain how all that salt got deposited during a global flood?

the frumious Bandersnatch

 

[JohnR7]

So Jesus got it wrong. Paul got it wrong. (So who was the foolish one?)

I would say your the foolish one. For a christian to say that Paul and Jesus got it wrong is the epitome of absurdity. Peter tells us that your taking things that are difficult to understand and twisting them to your own destruction.

2 Peter 3:15-16
and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation--as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, [16] as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.

 

[Follower of Christ]

OK, Now would you like to try to explain how all that salt got deposited during a global flood?

the frumious Bandersnatch

well FB, I havent personally got into salt deposits yet....

Let me look at it for a couple days....
I just dont want to throw something out there thats nonsense just to try to prove you wrong.......

One thing you need to keep in mind tho is that I DO believe God would create in a manner to decieve......

What i mean is this, He KNEW folks would reject Him...
In the last days He sends a powerful delusion agianst those who wouldnt accept the truth....
To me, after reading the OT and seeing the types of things God does sometimes, I would not put it past Him to have created in just such a manner.

Of course my views arent shared by the masses as most want God to be this old grey haired senile man who just loves everyone regardless...

My studies have shown Him to be anything BUT that...
Ill even go so far as to say I dont think I would have handled things in the same manner as He did in the OT.... but then, I am not HIm and the decision is not mine to make....

Ill study up in the salt thing and see what I can find, but dont be surprised after I do to get the standard ''God did it'' response...

the God I have read about would have no reservations about setting up folks who didnt want HIm to begin with....

 

[JohnR7]

OK, Now would you like to try to explain how all that salt got deposited during a global flood?

Maybe all the water evaporated and left the salt deposits behind.

Perhaps you would like to explain how the salt got in the water to get left behind as a deposit.

 

[Gracchus]

Well, Im not sure why its worded that way.....

Except that part of the seed obviously does get buried and dies and the germ then comes to life........

Precisely what happened to Christ...

The shell (the body) DIED, and was put into the ground but His Living Spirit (the germ) did not...

Nice try, Follower, but no prize. The sugars, starches, etc, are the products of life but do not metabolize. The germ metabolizes slowly but once it dies it is dead.

Most of the 1st century CE Mediterranean world was familiar with the cult of Tammuz (Osiris), the corn god, whence came the symbol of the seed as analogous to human resurrection. It was based on a misunderstanding of the mechanics of germination arising from ignorance.

Authors of the Christian holy books had an excuse for their mistake. Just so, the authors of Genesis had an excuse for their mistakes.

What excuse is there for YECs? But this discussion belongs in Apologetics, it you wish to pursue it.

 

[JohnR7]

I havent personally got into salt deposits yet....

I have wondered about the salt because they use huge amounts of it on the roads in the winter. They say the salt deposits under the great lakes is up to 300 feet thick, it was formed in layers and there is LOTS of it.

Also, there is LOTS of limestone, which was organic at one time. There are two limestone layers, one is more pure white than the other. People crush it and use it on their driveways. Our pastor thinks it is vanity to want to pay the extra money to use the more pure white limestone for your driveway.

There seems to be lots of oil and at one time there was lot of coal. Again, they were organic at one time.

The salt, the oil, the coal, the limestone, it all came from somewhere. They do not appear to have been created with the earth.

 

[Follower of Christ]

Nice try, Follower, but no prize. The sugars, starches, etc, are the products of life but do not metabolize. The germ metabolizes slowly but once it dies it is dead.

Whew........guess you got me on that one......


Hey guys, the jig is up, hes onto us....

Shoot.......the whole thing blown over Jesus saying that about the seed dying... WHAT was HE thinking....

 

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

Nice try, Follower, but no prize. The sugars, starches, etc, are the products of life but do not metabolize. The germ metabolizes slowly but once it dies it is dead.

Most of the 1st century CE Mediterranean world was familiar with the cult of Tammuz (Osiris), the corn god, whence came the symbol of the seed as analogous to human resurrection. It was based on a misunderstanding of the mechanics of germination arising from ignorance.

Authors of the Christian holy books had an excuse for their mistake. Just so, the authors of Genesis had an excuse for their mistakes.

What excuse is there for YECs? But this discussion belongs in Apologetics, it you wish to pursue it.

Corn God? Seed God maybe but didn't corn came from the Americas? In any case I agree that this belongs in appologetics.
the frumious Bandersnatch

 

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

Whew........guess you got me on that one......


Hey guys, the jig is up, hes onto us....

Shoot.......the whole thing blown over Jesus saying that about the seed dying... WHAT was HE thinking....

Now would you like to stop laughing and tell us how all that salt got deposited during a worldwide flood?

the frumious Bandersnatch

 

[Follower of Christ]

Now would you like to stop laughing and tell us how all that salt got deposited during a worldwide flood?

the frumious Bandersnatch

looks like you ignored my previous post

 

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

Maybe all the water evaporated and left the salt deposits behind.

Perhaps you would like to explain how the salt got in the water to get left behind as a deposit.

I missed this post. Sorry. I'll address it now.

Did you read the OP? Just to get the salt under Detroit about 2 x 10[sup]18[/sup] Kg of water would have had to evaporate.
http://www.saltinstitute.org/mich-1.html

"The estimates of salt deposits in Michigan are astronomical. In the Detroit area alone, it is believed that there are over 71 trillion tons of unmined salt. Geological studies estimate that 55 counties of the Lower Peninsula cover 30,000 trillion tons of salt. But like much of Michigan’s mineral wealth, only a fraction of this salt can be economically recovered."


To get 30,000 trillion tons of salt you need to evaporate about 8.5 x 10[sup]20[/sup] kg of water. Let's say we have the salty flood water spread out over 3 million square kilometers and we boil it from the surface. If we have a good wind to carry the water away we can under the best of conditions boil away about 1 kg/sq meter per second.
http://van.hep.uiuc.edu/van/qa/section/States_of_Matter_and_Energy/Boiling_Evaporating_and_Condensing/20020321122324.htm

So I calculate that if the flood water were boiling over most of the Eastern United States we could boil away enough water to deposit this amount of salt in about 9 years. Now there are other problems such as the enormous energy it would take to boil all the water and the fact that transferring the heat of vaporization to the air would heat the entire atmosphere by a few hundred degrees but even with boiling there was not time during the flood year to deposit all that salt. Feel free to check my calculations. I did them rather quickly.

The web site explains the salt cycle.
http://www.saltinstitute.org/mich-1.html

That's all I have time for tonight.

the frumious Bandersnatch

 

[JohnR7]

only a fraction of this salt can be economically recovered.

By economical, I assume you mean dirt cheap. They use ton and tons and tons of that stuff on our roads in the winter. Sometimes they mix it with water, but usually they just spread it out in it's raw form.