World Flood???

[SilverBear]

I didn't say languages I said language groups.

A language family is a group of languages related through descent from a common ancestral language. God gave them language groups, the same way he gave animal kinds at creation and then time has changed and split them off into many languages and dialects.

Ethnologue lists 147 family groups with living languages. There are at least 100 dead language groups that are specifically identified. They estimate that there are at least five times that many dead language groups so you still have a numbers problem

 

[coffee4u]

Ethnologue lists 147 family groups with living languages. There are at least 100 dead language groups that are specifically identified. They estimate that there are at least five times that many dead language groups so you still have a numbers problem

I don't have any problem, the number of languages were whatever God thought suitable. Since they weren't there they are only guessing.

 

[roman2819]

Many cultures in different parts of the world have a folklore about flood.\
Example: The Chinese word for boat or ship has the character "eight" . Maybe it implies how 8 people got into Noah's ark

 

[Bill Fishlore]

this thread is addressing hyper-literalism on the Noahs flood which does not even be coherent to scientific and biological studies of course the flood happened but the idea of a world flood has to be provable

 

[Bill Fishlore]

My personal favorite interpretation of Noah's Flood is in a song "The Unicorn" by the Irish Rovers which explains the absence of unicorns as a result of Noah's failure in following God's command:

A long time ago, when the earth was still green
And there were more kinds of animals than you've ever seen
They'd run around free while the earth was being born
But the loveliest of all was the unicorn
There was green alligators and long-necked geese
Some humpty-backed camels and some chimpanzees
Some cats and rats and elephants, but sure as you're born
The loveliest of all was the unicorn
Now god seen some sinnin' and it gave him pain
And he says, "stand back, I'm going to make it rain"
He says, "hey, brother Noah, I'll tell you what to do
Build me a floating zoo"
And take some of them green alligators and long-necked geese
Some humpty-backed camels and some chimpanzees
Some cats and rats and elephants, but sure as you're born
Don't you forget my unicorn"
Old Noah was there to answer the call
He finished up making the ark just as the rain started fallin'
He marched in the animals two by two
And he called out as they went through
"Hey, Lord"
I've got your green alligators and long-necked geese
Some humpty-backed camels and some chimpanzees
Some cats and rats and elephants, but Lord, I'm so forlorn
I just can't see no unicorn"
Then Noah looked out through the driving rain
Them unicorns was hiding, playing silly games
Kicking and splashing while the rain was pouring
Oh, them silly unicorns
There was green alligators and long-necked geese
Some humpty-backed camels and some chimpanzees
Noah cried, "close the doors 'cause the rain is pourin'
And we just can't wait for no unicorns"
The ark started movin', it drifted with the tide
Them unicorns looked up from the rock and they cried
And the waters came down and sort of floated them away
And that's why you'll never see a unicorn, to this very day
You'll see green alligators and long-necked geese
Some humpty-backed camels and some chimpanzees
Some cats and rats and elephants, but sure as you're born
You're never gonna see no unicorn

This song attributes environmental damage to mankind's inadequate function as God's agents on Earth. This is an important Biblical theme in today's world and one with wide potential acceptance if presented in the mythology of song lyrics rather than the harsh abstractions of cannon law.

 

[nli]

Thanks for song lyrics and reminder of that song.

Yes, environmental stewardship is a concern to Almighty God (Revelation 11:18).

 

[Bill Fishlore]

Thanks for song lyrics and reminder of that song.

Yes, environmental stewardship is a concern to Almighty God (Revelation 11:18).

Thanks for song lyrics and reminder of that song.

Yes, environmental stewardship is a concern to Almighty God (Revelation 11:18).

Thanks for song lyrics and reminder of that song.

Yes, environmental stewardship is a concern to Almighty God (Revelation 11:18).

The story of Noah's Flood is a clear example of both the nature of biblical mythology and its advantage. Taking the flood account as a literally true, scientifically component of archeology opens the door to rebuttal and criticism. Taking the flood account as a Divinely inspired parable about the relationship of humans to God and to the natural world of God's creation provides comfort, insight and inspiration. That positive inspiration of the mind is to the story of Noah is illustrated by the song composed by the Irish Rovers which besides being an amusing children's song, teachings the importance of carefully following God's commands (in this case to include animal species) and the important responsibility of human leaders (Noah) to protect wild nature (unicorns) as well farm animals. The song repeats the message of the tragic results of sinful behavior in this case environmental destruction. The song is an example of stimulating teaching of Biblical mythology. All this is far better than allowing the tale of Noah to be mocked and dismissed because there is no scientific of a global flood.

 

[nli]

Marine fossils are mixed with dinosaur fossils in the Hell Creek formation in South Dakota. Does anyone care to explain how this is possible without a global flood? Most of the earth's land surface is covered with 1000's of feet of sedimentary rocks containing billions of fossils and showing little to no soil or erosion within the layers. How is this possible without a global flood?

Take this passage from Genesis 7:

11 In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month: on that day All the fountains of the great abyss burst forth, and the floodgates of the sky were opened. 12 For forty days and forty nights heavy rain poured down on the earth.

If it's a parable rather than a historical narrative, then wouldn't it be waste to give details like the six hundreth year, second month, seventeenth day of the month?

Once you start reducing the meaning of part of the Bible, aren't you depreciating the value of all of the Bible?

 

[coffee4u]

Marine fossils are mixed with dinosaur fossils in the Hell Creek formation in South Dakota. Does anyone care to explain how this is possible without a global flood? Most of the earth's land surface is covered with 1000's of feet of sedimentary rocks containing billions of fossils and showing little to no soil or erosion within the layers. How is this possible without a global flood?

Take this passage from Genesis 7:

11 In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month: on that day All the fountains of the great abyss burst forth, and the floodgates of the sky were opened. 12 For forty days and forty nights heavy rain poured down on the earth.

If it's a parable rather than a historical narrative, then wouldn't it be waste to give details like the six hundreth year, second month, seventeenth day of the month?

Once you start reducing the meaning of part of the Bible, aren't you depreciating the value of all of the Bible?

Exactly. There are all kinds of inconsistencies around but they would rather sweep them under the rug because they don't fit the narrative.
Same way dinosaur blood doesn't fit, but all they say oh that's a shocker, must be something else happened to preserve it -yes how about it isn't as old as they think!

 

[Job 33:6]

Marine fossils are mixed with dinosaur fossils in the Hell Creek formation in South Dakota. Does anyone care to explain how this is possible without a global flood? Most of the earth's land surface is covered with 1000's of feet of sedimentary rocks containing billions of fossils and showing little to no soil or erosion within the layers. How is this possible without a global flood?

Take this passage from Genesis 7:

11 In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month: on that day All the fountains of the great abyss burst forth, and the floodgates of the sky were opened. 12 For forty days and forty nights heavy rain poured down on the earth.

If it's a parable rather than a historical narrative, then wouldn't it be waste to give details like the six hundreth year, second month, seventeenth day of the month?

Once you start reducing the meaning of part of the Bible, aren't you depreciating the value of all of the Bible?

Are you aware that rock formations are large bodies of rock that typically contain both marine and terrestrial stratigraphy?

Wonders if the individual decided to do research before drawing conclusions about geology.

And there's an important distinction between mixed and interbedded that shouldn't be confused. For example, it would be incorrect to say that a dinosaur trackways were ever observed in strata of marine lithology next to fish feeding traces for example. Such allegedly mixed fossils only exists in the imagination of poorly informed YECs mislead by their AiG leaders.

 

[nli]

Secular geology has a built-in mission to disprove Noah's flood. Rather than "follow the truth wherever it leads", there's an a priori condition that notions of Creation and the global flood of Noah's time must be excluded. The phrase has been: "We can't allow a Divine foot to step inside the door.". This is based on philosophy more than science.

Radiometric dating is highly inconsistent and unreliable yet it's the basis for geologic dates of millions of years. Radiometric dates from Potassium-argon are allowed to prove how old the rocks are but radiometic dates from Carbon 14 are disallowed to prove how young the shales, coal and petroleum are. Radiometric dating from the Mt. St. Helen's eruptions during 1980-1982 have produced ages much older than 40-42 years.

Meteorites have been widely found only in young sediments near the earth's surface. If earth's sediments had been deposited over millions of years, then we should find meteorites buried at all the levels from shallow to deep.

 

[roman2819]

Secular geology has a built-in mission to disprove Noah's flood. Rather than "follow the truth wherever it leads", there's an a priori condition that notions of Creation and the global flood of Noah's time must be excluded. The phrase has been: "We can't allow a Divine foot to step inside the door.". This is based on philosophy more than science.

Radiometric dating is highly inconsistent and unreliable yet it's the basis for geologic dates of millions of years. Radiometric dates from Potassium-argon are allowed to prove how old the rocks are but radiometic dates from Carbon 14 are disallowed to prove how young the shales, coal and petroleum are. Radiometric dating from the Mt. St. Helen's eruptions during 1980-1982 have produced ages much older than 40-42 years.

Meteorites have been widely found only in young sediments near the earth's surface. If earth's sediments had been deposited over millions of years, then we should find meteorites buried at all the levels from shallow to deep.

True, scientific methods are limited in their accuracy. There is a difference in performing a complicated surgery now and trying to understand what was past more than 5000 or 10000 years ago. For ecample: Carbon dating are limited in their accuracy when the stuff they are trying to measure has decayed too much.

 

[Sheila Davis]

(Genesis 6–9) describes a worldwide flood (the Noachian Flood) covering even the highest
mountains of the earth and the construction of a huge boat (a rectangular box-like craft) that transported animals, at least two of a kind of all land animals on the earth. Bible says that the rains that created the Noachian Flood lasted for 40 days (Genesis 7:17), that the waters prevailed on the earth for 150 days (Genesis 7:24), and after these 150 days the waters gradually receded from the earth so that by the seventh month and the seventeenth day, Noah’s Ark came to rest upon the mountains of Ararat (Genesis 8:4). A year plus two
months and twenty-seven days later the earth was dry enough so that
Noah,his family,and the load of animals could disembark from the Ark
(Genesis 8:14). Because this flood was intended by God to destroy all flesh on earth
(Genesis 6:13) and because sedimentary rocks on all continents
contain fossils that supposedly represent the “destroyed flesh of all
life,” it might be thought that the Bible story, describing a whole earth flood, was true. However, interlayered with these fossil-bearing sedimentary rocks on all continents are layers of evaporite rock salt (sodium chloride), gypsum
(hydrated calcium sulfate), anhydrite (calcium sulfate), and various
potash and magnesium salts, which are associated with red beds
(shales) containing fossilized mud cracks (Schreiber and others 2007).
Many of these mineral compounds and red beds have combined thicknesses on different continents of more than one kilometer (~3,281 feet) (Collins 2006). The
red beds are red because they contain red hematite (iron oxide) which formed from magnetite grains. Raindrop prints occur in many places around the world which could not have been formed or preserved if the muds (now in
shales) containing these prints were deposited under water
during Noah’s flood. (Senter 2011; Hill et al. 2016) Nests of dinosaur eggs are found in several places around the world, and it is illogical that dinosaurs could have had enough time to create these nests and lay their eggs while they were
fleeing from rising waters to reach higher ground. (Senter
2011; Hill et al. 2016)
a marine sea was once present and to disappear when the sea became
completely dry. Therefore, one could expect these evaporites to
be at the top of the supposed Noachian Flood deposits when the
water supposedly receded and the land dried out, but certainly not in
different levels in between older and younger fossiliferous “Flood
deposits”. We read in the Bible that there is only one time in which the Flood
waters are said to recede and leave the earth dry. That is, no multiple
worldwide climatic conditions are described in which flooding, then
drying to a dry earth, more flooding, more drying to a dry earth, in
repeated cycles that occur over and over again in that Flood year. On
that basis, it is logical that all the kinds of evaporite deposits and red beds in many different levels in the supposed Noachian Flood deposits could form only in local climates with desert drying-conditions and could not possibly have formed all at the same time — a time when flood covered the whole earth for more than one year (Collins 2006). On that basis, the Noachian Flood story cannot describe a whole-earth flood, but it could only represent a
large regional flood.

Source: Creationism (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)
15 Answers to Creationist Nonsense
Young Earth Creationism | National Center for Science Education
Flood Geology and the Grand Canyon: What Does the Evidence Really Say? - Articles
https://www.letu.edu/academics/arts-and-sciences/files/plate-tectonics.pdf
Yes, Noah's Flood May Have Happened, But Not Over the Whole Earth | National Center for Science Education
http://www.csun.edu/~vcgeo005/Nr38Reasons.pdf

The link below is some stories of ancient flood myths from around the world by different cultures / tribes. What many of these myths have in common, not all but many, is an angry God destroying all the people except for a few and in some a few animals. Why is that?
Africa, Asia, Europe, and Australia were the countries with the most people an estimated 10,000 years ago. North and South America, North and South Poles had very few people, if any.

Flood Stories from Around the World

A Flood of Myths and Stories


According to the US sensors at the lowest 1 million at the highest 10 million people walk the earth 10,000 years ago

Historical Estimates of World Population

Worldwide Population Throughout Human History

What was the purpose of the flood of Noah but to destroy The offspring of the sons of God and the daughters of man and the evilness that mankind had succumbed to.

Should we think that God only revealed himself to the Hebrews or even the Canaanites, who Melchizedek was King and High Priest of to the most high God. He chose the Hebrews and I ask were they his first choice? God revealed himself to all the people of those days they just rejected his way.
I personally think when scripture says the whole world it simply means where the people are and I believe the subject of the flood is the people.
Now whether mountains like Mount Everest was completely covered - if God chose to do so it was.
And I do not believe that mankind and dinosaurs walk the earth together - maybe woolly mammoths or a few sabertooths.

 

[GenemZ]

(Genesis 6–9) describes a worldwide flood (the Noachian Flood) covering even the highest
mountains of the earth

Those mountains were only highest on the *known* earth to man. Not the highest on the entire earth. That flood destroyed all depraved men living within the area of the *known* earth.

Mount Ararat - 3,300 feet (1,000 metres) above sea level; its southwestern slopes rise from a plain about 5,000 feet (1,500 metres) above sea level.

That is a shorty compared to other mountain ranges on the earth. The flood did not cover the others. The highest mountains in the world

Also...

The scope of what was considered to be the *whole world* was mentioned in the time of man's infancy. In reality, it was not that large an area of landmass...

To see that? Look at Genesis 11. The way the ancients thought? They saw the 'whole earth' as being simply the landmass of a great plain where men were living were residing.

"Now the whole world had one language and a common speech. As people moved eastward, they found a plain in Shinar and settled there." Gen 11:1-2​

What constituted man's concept of "the whole world" at that time? It was where human life lived. The "whole world" was located on a plain in Shinar.

Words change their meaning over the years. The meaning of "whole world" changed and evolved over time.

If we want to correctly interpret the Bible? We need to see how reality was perceived at the time of what was written about.

What was flooded in Noah's day? Might have taken place on a land mass no larger than some small state. For after all? All the men had to be within an earshot of Noah's preaching as to give all men a chance to repent before God's judgment was finalized with the flood.

What we learned in Sunday school as children is not accurate understanding.

Grace and peace!

 

[nli]

Those mountains were only highest on the *known* earth to man. Not the highest on the entire earth. That flood destroyed all depraved men living within the area of the *known* earth.

Mount Ararat - 3,300 feet (1,000 metres) above sea level; its southwestern slopes rise from a plain about 5,000 feet (1,500 metres) above sea level.

That is a shorty compared to other mountain ranges on the earth. The flood did not cover the others. The highest mountains in the world

Oh, really? Were you there?

There would have been no need to build an ark for a local flood.

How would you drain a local flood? What if the mountains rose and the valleys sank during the receeding stage of the global flood? Um, that sounds like Psalm 104:8

The mountains rose; the valleys sank down To the place which You established for them. (Psalm 104:8 NASB)

Perhaps you've not observed that there are billions of fossils. Somehow, they didn't rot out and were preserved. Creatures buried today will "rot out". 95% of fossils are marine fossils. Perhaps you've not observed that marine fossils are commonly mixed with terrestrial fossils (like shark teeth and dinosaurs mixed in the Hell Creek formation of Montana). See: Hell Creek Formation supports the Bible - creation.com

Perhaps you've not heard that marine fossils are found in limestone near the top of Mount Everest. The area of Mount Everest was once much lower and under water. See: Marine Fossils on Mount Everest

 

[GenemZ]

Oh, really? Were you there?

There would have been no need to build an ark for a local flood.

How would you drain a local flood? What if the mountains rose and the valleys sank during the receeding stage of the global flood? Um, that sounds like Psalm 104:8

The mountains rose; the valleys sank down To the place which You established for them. (Psalm 104:8 NASB)

Perhaps you've not observed that there are billions of fossils. Somehow, they didn't rot out and were preserved. Creatures buried today will "rot out". 95% of fossils are marine fossils. Perhaps you've not observed that marine fossils are commonly mixed with terrestrial fossils (like shark teeth and dinosaurs mixed in the Hell Creek formation of Montana). See: Hell Creek Formation supports the Bible - creation.com

Perhaps you've not heard that marine fossils are found in limestone near the top of Mount Everest. The area of Mount Everest was once much lower and under water. See: Marine Fossils on Mount Everest

Mankind was in its infancy. It was not until Genesis 6 that man began to increase in number.

All men had to be close enough to Noah to hear his preaching. If men were too far away from Noah? They would have been judged without warning. No opportunity to repent.

As far as fossils on higher peaks? .. much higher peaks (than the height given in Genesis 7).. There was a universal flood prior. The one that destroyed the prehistoric creation. That flood we find found in Genesis 1:2.

Of course you don't believe that is true. Yet, you believe that the entire number of species (times two) of the animals of the world all fit on the ark? Million species could fit?

A local flood God could have been made to reach great heights, yet to keep boundaries around the flood. For several times in the OT we read about how God would stack waters up high. Look how the Lord split the Red Sea and stacked those waters up. God could have easily contained the flood by stacking its edges up high to serve his purpose.


That purpose of Noah's flood was to what? To kill off depraved mankind. Animals were secondary and collateral damage. God was not out to destroy animals per se...

All other animals that were not indigenous to the area that man had not been living? Those were not to be harmed. For no men lived there to be drowned.

 

[Job 33:6]

.
Meteorites have been widely found only in young sediments near the earth's surface. If earth's sediments had been deposited over millions of years, then we should find meteorites buried at all the levels from shallow to deep.

What, are you mistaken in thinking the K-T boundary was in the pleistocene? This is just completely wrong.

.
Radiometric dating is highly inconsistent and unreliable

See the following ncse link for consistent results:
Radiometric Dating Does Work! | National Center for Science Education!

 

[Job 33:6]

You established for them. (Psalm 104:8 NASB)

Perhaps you've not observed that there are billions of fossils. Somehow, they didn't rot out and were preserved. Creatures buried today will "rot out". 95% of fossils are marine fossils. Perhaps you've not observed that marine fossils are commonly mixed with terrestrial fossils (like shark teeth and dinosaurs mixed in the Hell Creek formation of Montana). See: Hell Creek Formation supports the Bible - creation.com

Perhaps you've not heard that marine fossils are found in limestone near the top of Mount Everest. The area of Mount Everest was once much lower and under water. See: Marine Fossils on Mount Everest

The response I've already made that was never responded to:
World Flood???

The Himalayas are actually still growing taller and taller to this very day, and they're being built up by rock coming in from the Indian ocean. This Indian ocean rock of course is currently under water. Sea shells being inside rock has nothing to do with any flood at all, no more did the shells in the mountain have anything to do with a flood than the shells gradually moving from the ocean and up into the mountain have anything to do with a flood today.

A simple way to think about this is if rocks were trains on a train track, and the tracks led into a brick wall. A train is driving north from the sea and it's full of sea shells. But when the train reaches the himilayas, it collides with a brick wall and naturally builds upwards against the force of gravity. Just as a train would go higher into the atmosphere if it drove into a wall. Just as cars go up in the air when they hit other cars. The himilayas are built by crystal rock that has traveled north and it has hit other more dense rock, and so the sea shells are forced upwards, forming a mountain.

Which is why the himilayas are on a tectonic plate boundary, because that's what formed them (plate tectonics), not a flood:
View attachment 318585

 

[Job 33:6]

The response I've already made that was never responded to:
World Flood???

The Himalayas are actually still growing taller and taller to this very day, and they're being built up by rock coming in from the Indian ocean. This Indian ocean rock of course is currently under water. Sea shells being inside rock has nothing to do with any flood at all, no more did the shells in the mountain have anything to do with a flood than the shells gradually moving from the ocean and up into the mountain have anything to do with a flood today.

A simple way to think about this is if rocks were trains on a train track, and the tracks led into a brick wall. A train is driving north from the sea and it's full of sea shells. But when the train reaches the himilayas, it collides with a brick wall and naturally builds upwards against the force of gravity. Just as a train would go higher into the atmosphere if it drove into a wall. Just as cars go up in the air when they hit other cars. The himilayas are built by crystal rock that has traveled north and it has hit other more dense rock, and so the sea shells are forced upwards, forming a mountain.

Which is why the himilayas are on a tectonic plate boundary, because that's what formed them (plate tectonics), not a flood:

 

[BPPLEE]

(Genesis 6–9) describes a worldwide flood (the Noachian Flood) covering even the highest
mountains of the earth and the construction of a huge boat (a rectangular box-like craft) that transported animals, at least two of a kind of all land animals on the earth. Bible says that the rains that created the Noachian Flood lasted for 40 days (Genesis 7:17), that the waters prevailed on the earth for 150 days (Genesis 7:24), and after these 150 days the waters gradually receded from the earth so that by the seventh month and the seventeenth day, Noah’s Ark came to rest upon the mountains of Ararat (Genesis 8:4). A year plus two
months and twenty-seven days later the earth was dry enough so that
Noah,his family,and the load of animals could disembark from the Ark
(Genesis 8:14). Because this flood was intended by God to destroy all flesh on earth
(Genesis 6:13) and because sedimentary rocks on all continents
contain fossils that supposedly represent the “destroyed flesh of all
life,” it might be thought that the Bible story, describing a whole earth flood, was true. However, interlayered with these fossil-bearing sedimentary rocks on all continents are layers of evaporite rock salt (sodium chloride), gypsum
(hydrated calcium sulfate), anhydrite (calcium sulfate), and various
potash and magnesium salts, which are associated with red beds
(shales) containing fossilized mud cracks (Schreiber and others 2007).
Many of these mineral compounds and red beds have combined thicknesses on different continents of more than one kilometer (~3,281 feet) (Collins 2006). The
red beds are red because they contain red hematite (iron oxide) which formed from magnetite grains. Raindrop prints occur in many places around the world which could not have been formed or preserved if the muds (now in
shales) containing these prints were deposited under water
during Noah’s flood. (Senter 2011; Hill et al. 2016) Nests of dinosaur eggs are found in several places around the world, and it is illogical that dinosaurs could have had enough time to create these nests and lay their eggs while they were
fleeing from rising waters to reach higher ground. (Senter
2011; Hill et al. 2016)
a marine sea was once present and to disappear when the sea became
completely dry. Therefore, one could expect these evaporites to
be at the top of the supposed Noachian Flood deposits when the
water supposedly receded and the land dried out, but certainly not in
different levels in between older and younger fossiliferous “Flood
deposits”. We read in the Bible that there is only one time in which the Flood
waters are said to recede and leave the earth dry. That is, no multiple
worldwide climatic conditions are described in which flooding, then
drying to a dry earth, more flooding, more drying to a dry earth, in
repeated cycles that occur over and over again in that Flood year. On
that basis, it is logical that all the kinds of evaporite deposits and red beds in many different levels in the supposed Noachian Flood deposits could form only in local climates with desert drying-conditions and could not possibly have formed all at the same time — a time when flood covered the whole earth for more than one year (Collins 2006). On that basis, the Noachian Flood story cannot describe a whole-earth flood, but it could only represent a
large regional flood.

Source: Creationism (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)
15 Answers to Creationist Nonsense
Young Earth Creationism | National Center for Science Education
Flood Geology and the Grand Canyon: What Does the Evidence Really Say? - Articles
https://www.letu.edu/academics/arts-and-sciences/files/plate-tectonics.pdf
Yes, Noah's Flood May Have Happened, But Not Over the Whole Earth | National Center for Science Education
http://www.csun.edu/~vcgeo005/Nr38Reasons.pdf

Evidence for a Flood | Science| Smithsonian Magazine

https://ncse.ngo/flood-mesopotamian-archaeological-evidence

https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/e...at-flood-noahs-time-happened/story?id=1788453