Evolution and you?

Protoevangel

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My point is that a purely atheist view of the universe just doesn't make sense to me. Any way, I made a promise to myself to never discuss this topic since it only leads to arguments.
Okay. I know your position is more diverse than that, but if this is all you wan to contribute, it's all good. :)
 
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Are you ok, Dan? This is ridiculous.

Funny how I answered your questions respectfully, and here you start mocking people who disagree with you. I'm sure this tactic works well in shaming your students so they never disagree with you. And the smilies are a nice touch. Now you can accuse me of just not having a sense of humor. Well done Scott.
 
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Protoevangel

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Are you ok, Dan? This is ridiculous.
I'm just a little confused, that's all.

Your position is very clear. You ask questions, and I answer them. You don't bother to reply to that, but then you start making fun of the position you oppose. It has a definite ring of disrespect to it Scott.

Gotta run. I'll try to continue in a couple hours, once I get home.
 
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Well I don't feel there are real answers. People don't answer the scientific finds with any realistic scientific answers, just vague notions about floods, the Fall, and extinctions. Do I have to answer your posts? You don't always answer mine and I'm ok with that, not seeing it as disrespect?

The mockery about how I treat my students when you have ZERO idea what kind of teacher I am in the classroom, Dan, that's insulting, and meant to dig at my ribs a little.

I joke around all the time, so do you. Perhaps I should quit....maybe quit the whole forum.

I'm just a little confused, that's all.

Your position is very clear. You ask questions, and I answer them. You don't bother to reply to that, but then you start making fun of the position you oppose. It has a definite ring of disrespect to it Scott.

Gotta run. I'll try to continue in a couple hours, once I get home.
 
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Yep, ya gotta love Bruce Campbell!!

bruce-campbell-evil-dead-2-chainsaw.jpg


Bruce Campbell. Always Bruce Campbell. Nobody else compares.
 
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Dorothea

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and just to make sure this is understood AGAIN on this thread. Nobody on this thread or Orthodox I know is anti-science. There is no "my beliefs on this subject of evolution are better than yours." If one is thinking that, time to mortify the ego. There are different beliefs and ideas on how long was a day when God created the day, was it literally 24 hours, when did dinos roam the earth, before the Fall? Before the creation of man (like I tend to believe)? The Church has not given an exact doctrine on it because it isn't revealed to us by God in the Scriptures. It's that simple, so barring anything really off, like saying monkeys are made in God's image, most ideas are fine.
 
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ArmyMatt

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man, I hate what these threads always turn in to. if you believe the earth is old, and that animals evolved, that's fine. nothing in Orthodoxy says you cannot. however, there is no proof that the way that matter decays and the laws of physics are today is the way that they were at man's origins.

if you believe the earth is young, and evolution did not happen (like I do), you are also working with things that cannot be proven.

just because we diagree on how to look at the science, does not mean that we are anti-science, any more than just because we might disagree on the Fathers making us anti-patristic.
 
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BobRyan

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Well, the Earth is 5,000 years old, humans lived alongside dinosaurs like on Land of the Lost, fossils are the devil's trickery, radiocarbon dating and the other methodologies are trumped up by atheists, fossil records are illusions, and all the hominids we find are just tricks to throw us off the scent! :p There was no ice age, American Indians arrived in the New World through teleportation, and Elvis is still alive....hiding in Florida. That's my analysis! LOL

It's 6,000 years, American Indians are the descendants of Israelites who fled the Babylonian captivity, and Elvis was abducted by aliens... just ask Ray Stevens.

Clearly I have not spent enough time reviewing the OE perspective.

I had no idea.

in Christ,

Bob
 
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Zeek

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Greetings.


If you like, feel free to copy-paste your post here into ST. Justin's and I'll go more line by line (or take my three brief pseudo-replies and start from there - I'm flexible). If you'd prefer not to, that's fine to. I just wanted to offer.

In Christ,
Macarius

Sure that would be fine Macarius...

I really wasn't trying to teach or debate, its just that sometimes it is hard to sit on ones hands...I was trying to respect everyone and just give my 2cts for what they are worth.

Apologies if I over-stepped the line my friends. :sorry:
 
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Crawdad

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I feel that once you understand that your religion could be wrong its easy to view things more objectively.

Natural selection is a theory that explains the diversity of life on earth. There is no way for it to replace God in this equation because evolution doesnt even start at the beginning. Its like saying you dont believe in the oreo wrapper because something had to create the oreo.

At the end of the day we have thousands of peer reviewed scientific data- collected by christians, jews, atheists, muslims, and ect alike- pointing in the direction of evolution. The only thing that could have disproved evolution was DNA, and it only confirmed it.

I think a lot of people just dont like the idea of it.
 
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ArmyMatt

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I feel that once you understand that your religion could be wrong its easy to view things more objectively.

Natural selection is a theory that explains the diversity of life on earth. There is no way for it to replace God in this equation because evolution doesnt even start at the beginning. Its like saying you dont believe in the oreo wrapper because something had to create the oreo.

At the end of the day we have thousands of peer reviewed scientific data- collected by christians, jews, atheists, muslims, and ect alike- pointing in the direction of evolution. The only thing that could have disproved evolution was DNA, and it only confirmed it.

I think a lot of people just dont like the idea of it.

that's only if you accept their unproven (and impossible to prove or disrpove) presuppositions of uniformitarianism. evolution cannot be proved or disproved any more than creationism. it depends on your worldview before you look at the evidence. if it's theistic evolution, theistic evolution is what you will see.
 
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Crawdad

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that's only if you accept their unproven (and impossible to prove or disrpove) presuppositions of uniformitarianism. evolution cannot be proved or disproved any more than creationism. it depends on your worldview before you look at the evidence. if it's theistic evolution, theistic evolution is what you will see.

Evolution has evidence- observed speciation, fossil record, ect- creationism (as in the young earth or old earth kind) has nothing. At least nothing submitted for peer review.

So I would say it is defiantly proved more than creationism.
 
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ArmyMatt

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Evolution has evidence- observed speciation, fossil record, ect- creationism (as in the young earth or old earth kind) has nothing. At least nothing submitted for peer review.

So I would say it is defiantly proved more than creationism.

no, it's just that anytime someone brings up Creation, lawyers shoot it down.
 
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Crawdad

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no, it's just that anytime someone brings up Creation, lawyers shoot it down.

Is that why creationism is taught is some public schools in america? Or that creationists in america have eliminated the all but bare mention of evolution in some schools? Lawyers are not needed, 150 years of science shoots it down.
 
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ArmyMatt

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Is that why creationism is taught is some public schools in america? Or that creationists in america have eliminated the all but bare mention of evolution in some schools? Lawyers are not needed, 150 years of science shoots it down.

yeah, I think the numbers are still stacked heavily in evolution's favor. and they still cannot prove uniformitarianism. even evolutionists say this. that is why it is a theory, and not a law.

and most people test with their conclusions in mind. so no, 150 years of science does not shoot it down. even atheists find holes in evolution.
 
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Gxg (G²)

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I guess I'm left asking the question, what about all the archaeological finds we have discovered like the famous Lucy skelton, an ancient Australapithecine hominid that is estimated to be over 3 million years old? Donald Johansen's find was enormous. We have found australopithecines, homo erecus, homo habilis, neanderthals, etc. What are we to make of these hominids? Just flukes? Anthrolopologists and archaeologists analyzed their teeth, bone structures, what was found in their immediate vicinity within a few feet, and they've drawn some logical conclusions. I guess I'm wondering if we all have given the research, findings, conclusions, and actual reading its due diligence, or just cast it off as absurd because it might not jive with the Bible, approaching the OT as a history and science text? What are we to make of these skeletal finds? What do we make of mammoth discoveries like Oduvai Gorge, the Leakey finds, Johansen's discoveries, etc?







Fossil_hominids.jpg

neanderthal-left-and-human-right-skeletons2.jpg


Since the Lord made man from the dust of the ground (Gen. 2:7 ) just as he made all the other beasts of the fields ( Genesis 1:24-26 and Gen. 3:19 ), it'd make sense as to why there's so much similarity between other primates and humans. What seems to set man apart is that once the Lord made/formed him, He breathed the breath of life into man and man became unique. IMHO, it'd not seem too off to say that other hominids were created besides man before man came into existence...with similar designs. And then the Lord made man unique/spsecial from there.

Fr. Patrick of the Energetic Procession blog has had some excellent insights to offer on the issue (as seen here ) when he stated the following:
We read that Adam was created from the dust of the earth. Does this mean that he was independently formed by God from the earth or that God evolved humanoids from dust until a suitable physical state was reached and then one such adult male was taken apart and designated man and spiritually completed to be truly the image of God and made distinct from his humanoid brothers in this spiritual way and even, perhaps, physical way. At this point Adam was perhaps removed from the cycle of life and death in the “garden of Eden” until he sinned.

This is just speculation. The important thing is the mankind is united to the rest of creation yet unique in a special way that is to do with man’s relation to God and governance of creation and initially this man is not bound to death. From this first unique man then comes the rest of modern humanity. Other humanoids such as Neanderthals may well been another type of humans but not been humans in the special way that Adam was in the image of God. Perhaps, though, they are a variety of Adam’s descendants?

Also, Christianity is a faith that is grounded in history. The stories of the Old Testament are also grounded in history, while yet containing levels of typology and spiritual meaning. Thus while it is tempting to just read the Genesis stories as metaphor we must be careful not to lose the grounding in history of the Old Testament. Can we arbitrarily determine when legend turns into history? How do we determine this objectively? I raise this issue so that there is a need to somehow reconcile the biblical testimony with the physical evidence. If God truly inspired the Old Testament and spoke to Moses revealing the Law, including Genesis, and God is all knowing and the Creator, then we should we not believe that the stories are true at more than the level of a parable/metaphor. Also, not only with the Scriptures as Orthodox we need to be faithful to the interpretations of the Fathers such as St Basil the Great and St John Chrysostom, who both spoke on these matters. Can we be truly Orthodox if we approach the Scriptures in a different manner than the Fathers? Yet with advances in scientific knowledge, there are things which we know now that do not easily, if at all, permit a traditional interpretation.

Well, these are some ideas to start the ball rolling. It is not merely a matter of Creationism vs Evolutionism. We are created, yes, created things change and develop, with God’s help. Can be reconcile biblical and physical evidence without denying either. I am sure that there are many better developed thoughts our there.
 
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gracefullamb

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Is that why creationism is taught is some public schools in america? Or that creationists in america have eliminated the all but bare mention of evolution in some schools? Lawyers are not needed, 150 years of science shoots it down.


Really that is your argument popularity and public schools teach it as absolute truth? That settles it I am convinced now...
 
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Protoevangel

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Well I don't feel there are real answers. People don't answer the scientific finds with any realistic scientific answers, just vague notions about floods, the Fall, and extinctions. Do I have to answer your posts? You don't always answer mine and I'm ok with that, not seeing it as disrespect?

The mockery about how I treat my students when you have ZERO idea what kind of teacher I am in the classroom, Dan, that's insulting, and meant to dig at my ribs a little.

I joke around all the time, so do you. Perhaps I should quit....maybe quit the whole forum.
I answer these in my reply to your PM.
 
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