Error of Christanity...

[Ken Rank]

Well when you ask me like that you remind me of Pilate( I think that was his name?) when he asked Jesus, that question also when he was about to be crucified and under condemnation and being tested by those men so much that Jesus rightly had to condemn these people for treating him as so, so the only truth here it seems to me is that nothing has really changed in this world...I don't even know why you ask me that..I was just talking about stuff I read here and everywhere else mostly, it shouldn't matter what scripture im talking about anyway when they all come from the same author and should not be interpreted im such careless manners...unless a scripture does come to pass all these im reading is nothing more but educated guess and stuff people are speaking from thier own mouth, stuff that was interpreted by thier own understanding but if you want to believe that stuff go ahead...and it may not be a salvation issue now but it could lead to salvation issues when such things decieve people, and even people such as your own self...but if you want to fall under such deception, again go ahead and do so..but because "you said it' i am not making you agree with me nor do i have to explain myself or what scripture i waswtalking about , it was just me speaking on how I felt about things..

The reason I would ask that is only to show that we can both read the same passage, have the Holy Spirit, and not draw the same conclusion today. That was my only point, please don't read into it any more than that. Remember, after the resurrection, after Pentecost, the teaching continued even for the ones who walked with Yeshua. Did Peter need a vision from God to understand that gentiles were now part of the family? Yes... so he had the Spirit, he walked with Messiah daily while he was on earth, and yet Peter was still wrong about non-Jews. We can arrive at different conclusions, be right OR wrong, and still be part of the family of God with the Spirit in us.

 

[Willie T]

The problem we often have is definitions Jen. When you come in faith to Christ, are you saved? I would say yes... but then we have scripture that says, "he who endures until the end will be saved." So perhaps it is more like, "there is a moment we become his and THEN a time when we are truly saved."

1 John 3:2 Beloved, now we are children of God; but it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.

No we belong to the family, but one day we will be like him, changed, perfected. When?

1 Cor 15:52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

That is when. Until then, we are not perfect nor perfected. We are to STRIVE for perfection... seek perfection... but until we are changed, we won't fully achieve it.

That's why we have to allow each other to work out our own salvation (Phil. 2:12) and give each other the room to learn from our mistakes. And don't read over that last one... the room to learn from our own mistakes means WE WILL MAKE MISTAKES. It's ok... that is one way God teaches us, through our error.

Jen,
Posts like this one above, are well worth listening to.

 

[Jen35]

You hit the nail on the head. Too much distraction. Too little discipline. Its shameful.

My favorite designer passed away this year. He was a creative genius unlike any we’d ever seen with an encyclopedic knowledge of his craft.

When I read his obituary I was stunned. He’d done so much. Well beyond the things most were aware of. He utilized every ounce of talent God had given him until his death. There was so much to cover each obituary mentioned different things.

I don’t know if he was a believer. But I know I haven’t encountered the same amongst the flock. It’s sad. That should be the norm. But 25 years of self-improvement has taught me a lot. Few achieve and even fewer work to their potential. We waste a lot.

The passage you quoted is a favorite. Discipline is an important fruit.

I also know showing partiality to one person cause what they posted makes you feel good and yet call out another because you don't agree because what I posted wasn't fitting to your ears is in a form of hypocrisy too and I believe Jesus did say what reward do we have only loving those who love us...some of you know what I'm talking about..I know you do so don't act like you don't see my point..you can try to condemn me and expose me all you want but I know unless God personally declared or confirmed this world righteous no one is perfect on earth to condemn another person especially on the internet and ibelieve all has had thier filled or had thier closet filled with dead men's bones and bodies...you say to do what the Lord tells me to do well what if I we're doing that now? I think i am entirely done here.

 

[Jen35]

The reason I would ask that is only to show that we can both read the same passage, have the Holy Spirit, and not draw the same conclusion today. That was my only point, please don't read into it any more than that. Remember, after the resurrection, after Pentecost, the teaching continued even for the ones who walked with Yeshua. Did Peter need a vision from God to understand that gentiles were now part of the family? Yes... so he had the Spirit, he walked with Messiah daily while he was on earth, and yet Peter was still wrong about non-Jews. We can arrive at different conclusions, be right OR wrong, and still be part of the family of God with the Spirit in us.

Yes the truth can come in many forms as long as it leads back to the real truth..other then that you decieve yourself..when God speaks a word its eternal so there's no new revelation ..only a truth God made eternal and knowing he has the last word you can't add or take away from his word because doing that only makes a new relevation of that truth to come higher

 

[Ken Rank]

Yes the truth can come in many forms as long as it leads back to the real truth..other then that you decieve yourself

But what is the real truth? You seem very geared around the idea that there is this universal understanding that we ALL will have before we are perfected. There is truth in Christ, but when it comes to doctrine... again, we won't always agree. Just remember Peter and I will leave you alone. AFTER the Holy Spirit was poured out at Pentecost, after he walked with Messiah for at least a couple of years, he still was wrong about gentiles and God had to give him a special lesson, in a vision, to get the point across. And then AFTER THAT, Paul still had to get in Peter's face and correct him about the same thing... Peter STILL didn't fully grasp the point. Does that mean that Peter and Paul were on different teams? No, of course not... it just means they didn't see eye to eye on something for a time.

 

[RDKirk]

But what is the real truth? You seem very geared around the idea that there is this universal understanding that we ALL will have before we are perfected. There is truth in Christ, but when it comes to doctrine... again, we won't always agree. Just remember Peter and I will leave you alone. AFTER the Holy Spirit was poured out at Pentecost, after he walked with Messiah for at least a couple of years, he still was wrong about gentiles and God had to give him a special lesson, in a vision, to get the point across. And then AFTER THAT, Paul still had to get in Peter's face and correct him about the same thing... Peter STILL didn't fully grasp the point. Does that mean that Peter and Paul were on different teams? No, of course not... it just means they didn't see eye to eye on something for a time.

Accept the one whose faith is weak, without quarreling over disputable matters. Romans 14

There are indisputable matters in the correct doctrine of Christianity. The virgin birth, the absolute death of Jesus and His resurrection in His actual physical body. Those are some things indisputable to those who are Christians.

Paul points out that there are, however, "disputable matters"--things that are not so clear-cut and can be debated honestly between Christians.

A big problem today is that we create factions around "disputable matters."

 

[grandvizier1006]

Jen, my advice to you is to try and figure this out for yourself. Read the Bible on your own first, then check out other points of views on issues. Maybe stay off of CF for the time being, if need be. People on this forum will inevitably disagree with each other, so trying to each a consensus among us all is impossible. And that, in my view, is ok, as frustrating as that can be at times.

 

[bèlla]

I also know showing partiality to one person cause what they posted makes you feel good and yet call out another because you don't agree because what I posted

I didn’t reply to your OP at all. I don’t have an opinion on the subject. I can only surmise that you are miffed because your last tangent didn’t meet with the agreement you hoped.

You haven’t been condemned. That’s a false victim narrative you’re stoking for reasons which escape me. But let me be clear so there’s no further confusion going forward.

You are welcome to post your opinion as others do. But you should neither expect or demand my agreement or validation at any point. If you have difficulty with that concept then perhaps this isn’t the ideal medium for you.

 

[Jen35]

I didn’t reply to your OP at all. I don’t have an opinion on the subject. I can only surmise that you are miffed because your last tangent didn’t meet with the agreement you hoped.

You haven’t been condemned. That’s a false victim narrative you’re stoking for reasons which escape me. But let me be clear so there’s no further confusion going forward.

You are welcome to post your opinion as others do. But you should neither expect or demand my agreement or validation at any point. If you have difficulty with that concept then perhaps this isn’t the ideal medium for you.

Maybe I am wrong and it is just all in my head but you dont have to reply to my OP to do such a thing and from reading your post I read something in there that made me think and feel exsposed and like you were slightly condemning me a bit. I am not miffed by anything why would I be miffed by that especially when I made such an OP. I knew y'all wouldn't agree with me, that's why I posted that. And besides this is the internet.. there's no real purpose being on this forum because even though you are real people I truly don't know who is posting behind my post and who is really hiding behind these cell phones and computers but I do know I do not need to be here. And if you don't like what I post or agree with it you have no reason being in this thread for having not agreeing with a post and thread which the person you don't agree with made..so what if that's true, why the heck are you in here?

 

[CharismaticLady]

But presumably, somebody who studies their faith with any significant degree of depth should be assumed to have pure intentions even if their eventual doctrinal convictions are erroneous.

The Holy Spirit has been said in this thread to lead the faithful into all truth. I assume this applies even to those who are sincerely mistaken. So why is the Holy Spirit seemingly either unwilling or unable to lead those of presumably good faith into all truth?

Why is merely studying Sacred Scripture not enough to produce 100% doctrinal unity among all the faithful worldwide?

Actually, Satan is a scholar of the Scriptures. He knows it so well He tried to trick Jesus by using it in the wilderness.

The only way that a scholar can be saved, is through repentance from sin. They must be born again just like anyone else. Or else this may be true of them:

Matthew 7:21-23
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

 

[bèlla]

Maybe I am wrong and it is just all in my head but you dont have to reply to my OP to do such a thing and from reading your post I read something in there that made me think and feel exsposed and like you were slightly condemning me a bit.

My comment had nothing to do with you and irrespective of your reasons or inference the notion of further engagement is unappealing. Lashing out is unbecoming and unacceptable. We always have a choice.

Your suppositions have carried you this far and I’m certain they’ll provide the answers you seek. You’ll get no replies from me. I think the best thing for you to do is to ignore my posts. That is my intention.

 

[redleghunter]

But how does anyone know with certainty that they've interpreted it correctly, or that God has revealed the meaning directly to them?

The Bible does not communicate absolute truth to you?

 

[thecolorsblend]

Actually, Satan is a scholar of the Scriptures. He knows it so well He tried to trick Jesus by using it in the wilderness.

The only way that a scholar can be saved, is through repentance from sin. They must be born again just like anyone else. Or else this may be true of them

Now your story is changing. Before this, your claim was that genuine faith came from immersing oneself in Sacred Scripture. Now, seemingly, your claim is that faith springs from repentance.

Boy oh boy, an infallible authority to guide the faithful through their study of scripture and the Christian life seems more and more pressing all the time.

Still, you do hit upon something rather profound here. My critique of Protestantism is in part based on the implicit necessity that Protestant faithful be experts on the scriptures. For those who have an inclination toward the intellectual or the scholarly, I imagine being an expert on Sacred Scripture is no particular challenge.

But for those who, to be charitable, are not scholars... well, they're in a bit of a pickle because their intellectual aptitude is, shall we say, lacking.

Catholicism, by contrast, does not require the faithful to be academics. All can receive the same sacraments, generally speaking, irrespective of their intellect. The Church can enable all her members to use whatever gifts and talents they do have to their fullest.

But both by observation and by experience, I find that this is not really the case in the Protestant world.

 

[SkyWriting]

I think today there is a big problem with christianity and I'm more leaning on the fact that scriptures have been misinterpreted and people don't know thier roles in the bible. It's one thing to read the word and interpret a scripture in the bible and claim it to be so when in all honesty it means something else and it's another thing to decieve ourselves and everyone else. And to me it seems that it seems to be because of a lacking of spiritual knowledge or whatever..I don't mean worldly wisdom or knowledge but spiritual truth and wisdom receive from the holy spirit which we receive when we are born again. And that's seems to sum up the Christian error to me...

What seems to sum up the Christian error, to you?
You failed to sum up anything.

 

[Jen35]

What seems to sum up the Christian error, to you?
You failed to sum up anything.

Rejecting overlooking hurting and condemning one apart of the church and misplacing and replacing that person causing that person having to fall under condemnation itself for having to condemn others due to heartache and anger and i am angry, so just stop responding to me cause I clearly don't care what you think....

 

[fhansen]

The Bible does not communicate absolute truth to you?

If it depends on me to interpret the truth then I may well get it wrong, as is proven every time I may disagree on my interpretation with some other equally sincere bloke.

 

[redleghunter]

If it depends on me to interpret the truth then I may well get it wrong, as is proven every time I may disagree on my interpretation with some other equally sincere bloke.

That’s not answering the question. Does the Bible contain clearly communicated absolute truth?

 

[Willie T]

What seems to sum up the Christian error, to you?
You failed to sum up anything.

Do you actually think ANYONE could ever "sum up" all the error we Christians get ourselves into? She seems to have just mentioned some areas that appear odd to her... and probably to a lot of people also.

 

[Loversofjesus_2018]

We have the Spirit to guide us, comfort us, and teach us. But we have not been perfected yet. We can see things somewhat differently and still walk together in harmony. Just read the gospels, especially Mathew, Mark and Luke. Basically the same story but told in three very distinct styles. Why? Because being given an earnest of the Spirit (2 Cor 1:22 and 5:5) does not mean we have become identical and certainly not infallible. We still await the day we will be changed, perfected... and until then, by definition, we are imperfect.

If this is true then why all of the arguing and debating you think? If it’s clear that it’s possible for someone to be wrong in their opinion or interpretation why are people so rude on the forums then? From my experience on these most people will refuse to say they could be wrong and they speak in certainties. So much easier to talk when people aren’t acting like they know everything.

 

[Loversofjesus_2018]

Well, the problem here is that every one of the thousands of Protestant denominations claims to be following the Bible, and claims to be born again. Yet the teaching of each denomination contradicts the teaching of the others, which is why they are separate denominations. Truth cannot contradict truth, so obviously a tremendous amount of untruth is being taught in this unauthorized manmade tradition. Jesus Christ didn't want all this confusion to exist. His plainly stated will concerning His followers was and still is "That they all may be ONE, even as I and my heavenly Father are ONE". Truth can exist only in unity, which is why He founded just ONE Church, said it was to remain ONE, and promised that ONE Church "The Holy Spirit will guide you into all truth", and "Whatsoever you bind upon Earth is bound in Heaven", and "He who hears you hears Me". Which is why that ONE Church remains ONE in belief, ONE in teaching, ONE in worship, ONE in biblical understanding throughout the world after 2,000 years. You just can't beat God's plan.

Are you saying the Catholic Church is the true church? I just don’t understand why people have to confess there sins to a man when they don’t have to... no one has ever explained that to me