Error of Christanity...

[Loversofjesus_2018]

Well when you ask me like that you remind me of Pilate( I think that was his name?) when he asked Jesus, that question also when he was about to be crucified and under condemnation and being tested by those men so much that Jesus rightly had to condemn these people for treating him as so, so the only truth here it seems to me is that nothing has really changed in this world...I don't even know why you ask me that..I was just talking about stuff I read here and everywhere else mostly, it shouldn't matter what scripture im talking about anyway when they all come from the same author and should not be interpreted im such careless manners...unless a scripture does come to pass all these im reading is nothing more but educated guess and stuff people are speaking from thier own mouth, stuff that was interpreted by thier own understanding but if you want to believe that stuff go ahead...and it may not be a salvation issue now but it could lead to salvation issues when such things decieve people, and even people such as your own self...but if you want to fall under such deception, again go ahead and do so..but because "you said it' i am not making you agree with me nor do i have to explain myself or what scripture i waswtalking about , it was just me speaking on how I felt about things..

Most people I’m hoping know that they are uncertain and are just giving there opinion. I haven’t seen many people on CF willing to admit that but I still think they know. It would be so much easier if people just said they don’t know. Why that’s so difficult to say I have no idea lol

 

[ViaCrucis]

Not everyone is filled with the Spirit and can hear Him speak. Others study their denomination, not the Bible.

It's interesting, isn't it, that everyone who claims that the Holy Spirit tells them what is true, and that they just go by what the Bible says and not by tradition of any kind, doesn't agree with the next person who makes the same claim.

It's almost as though there's a lot of people running around claiming to be their own personal pope.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Loversofjesus_2018]

The reason I would ask that is only to show that we can both read the same passage, have the Holy Spirit, and not draw the same conclusion today. That was my only point, please don't read into it any more than that. Remember, after the resurrection, after Pentecost, the teaching continued even for the ones who walked with Yeshua. Did Peter need a vision from God to understand that gentiles were now part of the family? Yes... so he had the Spirit, he walked with Messiah daily while he was on earth, and yet Peter was still wrong about non-Jews. We can arrive at different conclusions, be right OR wrong, and still be part of the family of God with the Spirit in us.

I’m curious how that works. Both people have the Holy Spirit leading them on specific issue and come to different conclusions? How does this work?

 

[Willie T]

I’m curious how that works. Both people have the Holy Spirit leading them on specific issue and come to different conclusions? How does this work?

Is it likely that Neither have The Holy Spirit?

I know that when someone is telling me they are speaking from "their discernment", it usually convinces me they have none.

 

[Loversofjesus_2018]

It's interesting, isn't it, that everyone who claims that the Holy Spirit tells them what is true, and that they just go by what the Bible says and not by tradition of any kind, doesn't agree with the next person who makes the same claim.

It's almost as though there's a lot of people running around claiming to be their own personal pope.

-CryptoLutheran

In my understanding the pope nor anybody else should be speaking for God. All humans are capable of error. Because of that alone our ego should be put aside. It’s great to try and help each other out but we should always leave room to say we aren’t sure in our opinions.

 

[ViaCrucis]

In my understanding the pope nor anybody else should be speaking for God. All humans are capable of error. Because of that alone our ego should be put aside. It’s great to try and help each other out but we should always leave room to say we aren’t sure in our opinions.

I agree. I don't believe anyone is infallible, which is why I find claims of implied infallibility to be absurd and deeply errant.

Whether it's the successor of St. Peter in Rome or Average Joe Christian, none of us are infallible.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[SkyWriting]

Do you actually think ANYONE could ever "sum up" all the error we Christians get ourselves into? She seems to have just mentioned some areas that appear odd to her... and probably to a lot of people also.

Got milk?
Switch to that.

Jen35 said: ↑....And that's seems to sum up the Christian error to me...

 

[Mathetes66]

"I just thinking you are getting a bit ahead of yourself here considering I type quickly &make errors in my typings a lot."

Those things I directly quoted you on were not typing errors! You chose to focus on the last thing I put in my post as an afterthought, on an internationally well known Christian teacher & apologist, who was known for his maturity & Christian spirituality. He said the SAME thing as the doctrine of the Trinity & the Nicene & Athanasius Creeds so your trying to escape the obvious ancient, historical Christian doctrines didn't work!

Anyone teaching contrary to FOUNDATIONAL historical Christian doctrines, IF they were wrong, would immediately CONFESS their faith in the foundational doctrines of the Christian faith. You did not!

You tried to dodge your obvious false teaching on who the Holy Spirit is, by not addressing the Triune God & the Nicene & Athanasian Creeds nor the AGREEMENT Chuck Smith had with both of those historic Christian doctrines.

"I don't know what is worst though making typos on an Android phone or speaking against the holy spirit of finding fault in someone to condemn cause what they say isn't fitting to your ears or eyes."

First of all, it has NOTHING to do with what is FITTING in my own eyes or ears but it has everything to do with teaching contrary to historic, passed down foundational Christian doctrine, that has been agreed upon for millenia. That is what the prophets taught. That is what Jesus taught. That is what the apostles' taught. And that is what the apostolic churches have passed down to us, the faith 'once for all delivered to the saints.'

Then you use ad hominems (attacking the person rather than their dealing with the Christian doctrine) toward me, saying I was HARSHLY condemning you or I was getting ahead of myself or I should overlook your obvious false teaching.

I never condemned you or said you were stupid or mad fun of any typing errors; you said those not me. My desire is to bring you to face what you taught as false teaching from Christian teaching. My desire was to bring correction not condemnation. My desire is that you confess with your mouth, by faith in these sacred truths that Christians have done so for millenia.

What I addressed was your false teaching contrary to historic Christian doctrine. You haven't denied it either. You haven't addressed the doctrine of the Trinity. You haven't addressed the Nicene & Athanasius' Creeds. You haven't addressed Chuck Smith's teaching that is the same as the afore mentioned doctrine & Creeds.

I never once mentioned anything about your typing or grammar. That is not the issue. Nor teaching falsely about foundational Christian doctrine; it can't be ignored or overlooked like you would want me to do.

There is nothing to forgive. You haven't offended me. I have only spoken the truth in love. No Christian would be loving if they didn't point these things out. I have given you an opportunity to respond to what I showed you, to correct me in anyway by what I have pointed out.

You haven't. You said that if you needed correcting, to say so. I already did. I was waiting for your response if you would accept that correction & align yourself with historic Christianity. You haven't.

So I again appeal to you, to be honest & straightforward. Do you believe that God is TRIUNE, that there is one God by being or nature, that reveals Himself as three distinct Persons, who intrinsically are that one eternal Being we Christians call God; that the Father is not playing a role as the Son or the Holy Spirit nor the Holy Spirit playing a role as the Father or the Son?

Do you believe that the Holy Spirit is co-equal & co-eternal with the Father & the Son but is distinct as to Person, from the Person of the Father & the Person of the Son?

If you don't agree with these historic Christian doctrines, which all branches of Christianity do, then simply admit it. Being honest is a first step to knowing the true Triune God.

"In essentials, UNITY; in non-essentials, liberty; in all things charity."

 

[JackRT]

If you don't agree with these historic Christian doctrines, which all branches of Christianity do, then simply admit it. Being honest is a first step to knowing the true Triune God.

Actually not all branches of Christianity agree even on historic doctrines. At the moment there are over 40,000 Christian branches, churches, denominations, .....

 

[thecolorsblend]

Are you saying the Catholic Church is the true church? I just don’t understand why people have to confess there sins to a man when they don’t have to... no one has ever explained that to me

If you wish, you can come over to OBOB and we'll be happy to explain the reasoning for that.

 

[Willie T]

Those things I directly quoted you on were not typing errors! You chose to focus on the last thing I put in my post as an afterthought, on an internationally well known Christian teacher & apologist, who was known for his maturity & Christian spirituality. He said the SAME thing as the doctrine of the Trinity & the Nicene & Athanasius Creeds so your trying to escape the obvious ancient, historical Christian doctrines didn't work!

Anyone teaching contrary to FOUNDATIONAL historical Christian doctrines, IF they were wrong, would immediately CONFESS their faith in the foundational doctrines of the Christian faith. You did not!

You tried to dodge your obvious false teaching on who the Holy Spirit is, by not addressing the Triune God & the Nicene & Athanasian Creeds nor the AGREEMENT Chuck Smith had with both of those historic Christian doctrines.



First of all, it has NOTHING to do with what is FITTING in my own eyes or ears but it has everything to do with teaching contrary to historic, passed down foundational Christian doctrine, that has been agreed upon for millenia. That is what the prophets taught. That is what Jesus taught. That is what the apostles' taught. And that is what the apostolic churches have passed down to us, the faith 'once for all delivered to the saints.'

Then you use ad hominems (attacking the person rather than their dealing with the Christian doctrine) toward me, saying I was HARSHLY condemning you or I was getting ahead of myself or I should overlook your obvious false teaching.

I never condemned you or said you were stupid or mad fun of any typing errors; you said those not me. My desire is to bring you to face what you taught as false teaching from Christian teaching. My desire was to bring correction not condemnation. My desire is that you confess with your mouth, by faith in these sacred truths that Christians have done so for millenia.

What I addressed was your false teaching contrary to historic Christian doctrine. You haven't denied it either. You haven't addressed the doctrine of the Trinity. You haven't addressed the Nicene & Athanasius' Creeds. You haven't addressed Chuck Smith's teaching that is the same as the afore mentioned doctrine & Creeds.

I never once mentioned anything about your typing or grammar. That is not the issue. Nor teaching falsely about foundational Christian doctrine; it can't be ignored or overlooked like you would want me to do.

There is nothing to forgive. You haven't offended me. I have only spoken the truth in love. No Christian would be loving if they didn't point these things out. I have given you an opportunity to respond to what I showed you, to correct me in anyway by what I have pointed out.

You haven't. You said that if you needed correcting, to say so. I already did. I was waiting for your response if you would accept that correction & align yourself with historic Christianity. You haven't.

So I again appeal to you, to be honest & straightforward. Do you believe that God is TRIUNE, that there is one God by being or nature, that reveals Himself as three distinct Persons, who intrinsically are that one eternal Being we Christians call God; that the Father is not playing a role as the Son or the Holy Spirit nor the Holy Spirit playing a role as the Father or the Son?

Do you believe that the Holy Spirit is co-equal & co-eternal with the Father & the Son but is distinct as to Person, from the Person of the Father & the Person of the Son?

If you don't agree with these historic Christian doctrines, which all branches of Christianity do, then simply admit it. Being honest is a first step to knowing the true Triune God.

"In essentials, UNITY; in non-essentials, liberty; in all things charity."

Wow! I'd hate to see a post you weren't "making in love." LOL

 

[ViaCrucis]

there are over 40,000 Christian branches, churches, denominations, .....

That figure is misleading. In order to get that figure requires regarding members of the same church body separate "denominations", sometimes simply based on national boundaries even when the church in question is international in structure and scope.

That number only makes sense and is worthwhile when used in the context of the methodology.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Willie T]

Actually not all branches of Christianity agree even on historic doctrines. At the moment there are over 40,000 Christian branches, churches, denominations, .....

And, I think, something like 43 different Christian Creeds.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Are you saying the Catholic Church is the true church? I just don’t understand why people have to confess there sins to a man when they don’t have to... no one has ever explained that to me

This isn't a uniquely "Catholic" thing. Private confession is an historic practice in Christianity that is based on John 20:23, where Jesus tells His apostles "whoever's sins you forgive are forgiven them". Jesus gave His Church the authority to pronounce forgiveness of sins in His name, and the exercising of that has been reserved for pastors--bishops and presbyters (i.e. "priests") in standard Christian practice.

I'm not aware of any church which claims one has to make a private confession, only that private confession is available because Christ gave it to the Church as an instrument of grace. One is not "more forgiven" by confessing to a pastor than by confessing by oneself or as part of the public confession of sins in worship; but it is freely available to the Faithful so that we can hear the word of God's forgiveness which is ours on account of Christ. The pastor/priest does not forgive sins by his authority, he is not pronouncing his own forgiveness, he is pronouncing God's forgiveness, he is speaking in persona Christi, in the person and name of Christ. It is Christ who forgives, the minister of the Gospel merely speaks Christ's own word and forgiveness to us. This is true both of private as well as public confession, it's what the Church has historically called Confession and Absolution.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[chevyontheriver]

"This message was sponsored by the Roman Catholic Church"

Methinks your opinion would be that such a message would have to be automatically false based on the sponsorship. But then what of Jen's observation?

 

[Loversofjesus_2018]

Is it likely that Neither have The Holy Spirit?

I honestly don’t know but both of them aren’t right

This isn't a uniquely "Catholic" thing. Private confession is an historic practice in Christianity that is based on John 20:23, where Jesus tells His apostles "whoever's sins you forgive are forgiven them". Jesus gave His Church the authority to pronounce forgiveness of sins in His name, and the exercising of that has been reserved for pastors--bishops and presbyters (i.e. "priests") in standard Christian practice.

I'm not aware of any church which claims one has to make a private confession, only that private confession is available because Christ gave it to the Church as an instrument of grace. One is not "more forgiven" by confessing to a pastor than by confessing by oneself or as part of the public confession of sins in worship; but it is freely available to the Faithful so that we can hear the word of God's forgiveness which is ours on account of Christ. The pastor/priest does not forgive sins by his authority, he is not pronouncing his own forgiveness, he is pronouncing God's forgiveness, he is speaking in persona Christi, in the person and name of Christ. It is Christ who forgives, the minister of the Gospel merely speaks Christ's own word and forgiveness to us. This is true both of private as well as public confession, it's what the Church has historically called Confession and Absolution.

-CryptoLutheran

That was really helpful. I guess it one of those “to each’s own”... I thought this was a requirement in the Catholic Church but I see I am wrong. Thank you

 

[salt-n-light]

Methinks your opinion would be that such a message would have to be automatically false based on the sponsorship. But then what of Jen's observation?

You said it, not me

And i already commented on Jen's observation, just decided to have fun.

 

[JackRT]

That figure is misleading. In order to get that figure requires regarding members of the same church body separate "denominations", sometimes simply based on national boundaries even when the church in question is international in structure and scope.

That number only makes sense and is worthwhile when used in the context of the methodology.

-CryptoLutheran

Those figures originate with the World Christian Encyclopedia. They do point that out. For example, there were at one point over 800 Baptists denominations and quite a few were national chuches but there are only about 200 of those. In addition they also pointed out that about half the grand total were so called "non-denominational" churches. Of course the vast majority of those are actually evangelical or fundamentalist churches of one flavour or another. With all of this in mind there are still many thousands of denominations. Sadly, a great number of them condemn a great number of the others as heretics or worse.

 

[charsan]

I think today there is a big problem with christianity and I'm more leaning on the fact that scriptures have been misinterpreted and people don't know thier roles in the bible. It's one thing to read the word and interpret a scripture in the bible and claim it to be so when in all honesty it means something else and it's another thing to decieve ourselves and everyone else. And to me it seems that it seems to be because of a lacking of spiritual knowledge or whatever..I don't mean worldly wisdom or knowledge but spiritual truth and wisdom receive from the holy spirit which we receive when we are born again. And that's seems to sum up the Christian error to me...

It's because people have abandoned the Church in favor of what they think and their own ideas.

 

[charsan]

Or maybe just actually receive the holy spirit and listen to it and not speak from your our own mouths but the spirit who came from an authority and who is in authority under the power of God..and speaks through us and guide us into all truth on such things... because the holy spirit is the only one who can reveal something that came in a spiritual and divine manner..just like water is to glass and peanut butter is to jelly, spirit is to spirit and spirit only when we become one with the spirit.. ok

Yet everyone claims to have the spirit and comes up with different ideas, it's all chaos. There must be something better than rampant individualism gone amok