Ecumenical Excesses

[InnerPhyre]

I'd like to point out that luthercath is a PRIME example of why we MUST start questioning those who approach the chalice, as the Orthodox do. The Body and Blood of Christ are too precious for this.

 

[Benedicta00]

I too find this thread incredibly sad,br. roger was an ecumenical saint totaly in love with the lord,I find it beyond belief that this holy man brought anything but joy to the savior,s eyes when he received the LORD,S SUPPER with brother baptized believers.I too am an ecumenical christian in unity with all my fellow baptized believers,I was baptized into the holy catholic(universal)church not any denomination,and as it,s the LORD,S SUPPER and i believe as jesus said that it is his body and blood(real presence) and he commanded me to partake in his body and blood,i do so in whatever church i,m attending be it catholic,anglican,or lutheran, and i,m not the least bit worried about damnation,hellfire,or judgement against me for doing so! in christian unity,luthcath

Soooo what about truth, where does that fall into the grand scheme of things?

Is it okay to not believe that Mary is our spiritual mother? Is it okay to think she is just Jesus’ mother and not the mother of God? is it okay to think she wasn’t a virgin after Jesus’ birth, or that she was a sinner? Is it okay to think that Jesus’ had blood brothers?

Is it okay to not believe in the intercession of the saints? Is it okay not to believe that we have an obligation to pray for the poor souls? Is it okay to think we don’t need confession- we can go straight to God instead?

Is it okay to have varying different opinions around the table whether or not the Lord’s Supper is a meal or a sacrifice? Is it okay to not submit to a single teaching the Church purposes for our belief that we really don’t want to have to submit to?

Is it okay to not be in full communion with the bishop of Rome? Jesus Christ’s own vicar on earth?

I mean come one, tell me what role does truth play in your eyes and in God’s eyes?

 

[InnerPhyre]

Furthermore, if you receive in the Catholic Church, you are being deceptive, because if the priest you received from realized you weren't Catholic, he would not allow you to receive.

 

[Benedicta00]

I'd like to point out that luthercath is a PRIME example of why we MUST start questioning those who approach the chalice, as the Orthodox do. The Body and Blood of Christ are too precious for this.

Is it me or is all this take over new? has this always been a problem in the Church or is this really something new happening or is it just a CF fad?

 

[Milla]

Can we address the substance of luthercath's post instead of attacking him personally? I find that discussing ideas is productive, while discussing the posessors of those ideas generally ends with everyone rolling in the metaphorical mud like pigs.

 

[InnerPhyre]

Is it me or is all this take over new? has this always been a problem in the Church or is this really something new happening or is it just a CF fad?

Well, there was a time when priests wouldn't simply hand out communion to whoever approached.

 

[Milla]

In which case the sin might not be sacrilege, but scandal.

I don't know how to put this in a gentle manner - so I will just say it - I think there would be much less issue with "scandal" were we (collective we) not so very quick to assume that we know all about others and their actions just because we read some story in the news or something.

 

[masuwerte]

Furthermore, if you receive in the Catholic Church, you are being deceptive, because if the priest you received from realized you weren't Catholic, he would not allow you to receive.

Should you not respect the priest's judgment on something like this? If they know the person asking communion is in imperfect union with Rome, and yet see fit to give it, who are you to oppose?

 

[Benedicta00]

But if they are not disposed properly before or after the funeral or wedding it is impossible that they would be properly disposed during the funeral or wedding. So how and why can they make an exception? If the exception is made on the basis of they are baptized Christians and there is some sort of unity in this special Mass, why not the regular Sunday Masses as well? Especially if, and I'm sure it is the case, the exception for those being married is based on them becoming one flesh, so the non Catholic Chrsitian spouse is not only imperfectly united to the Church in baptism, but even more so by being one flesh with a member of the Church.

I think Kasper wanted to make that dispensation exception something that could be done more often, if the nonCatholic was attending Mass with his family -esp. weekly, and asked that it could be decided without dispensation from the Bishop. So not approved, but seems it should be all the way one way or the other. Either there is some reason to allow intercommunion and it should be allowed, or they are simply not properly disposed except perhaps for a deathbed conversion it should never be allowed.

Marcia

I really do not know what goes on in a dispensation situation but I would assume that some preparation would be done i.e. if the person was at least not living in a state of mortal sin.

 

[InnerPhyre]

Should you not respect the priest's judgment on something like this? If they know the person asking communion is in imperfect union with Rome, and yet see fit to give it, who are you to oppose?

This is not an issue where one has discussed it with a priest. This is an issue where one has pridefully said "Your rules are stupid. I'm not following them."

 

[masuwerte]

What about if someone has discussed it with a priest, or the priest decides to offer it?

 

[InnerPhyre]

What about if someone has discussed it with a priest, or the priest decides to offer it?

Then the priest would need the permission of his bishop. If the bishop decided to grant permission, then that's fine. This is not what we're dealing with.

 

[Benedicta00]

Should you not respect the priest's judgment on something like this? If they know the person asking communion is in imperfect union with Rome, and yet see fit to give it, who are you to oppose?

He is free to oppose something that is not a matter doctrine i.e. faith and morals.

 

[Benedicta00]

What about if someone has discussed it with a priest, or the priest decides to offer it?

Presets have limited authority- they work under obedience to their bishops.

 

[luthercath]

well brothers in christ,i,m in a interfaith marriage(wifes catholic,I raised lutheran)i,m a registered member of her parish and am more active(parish food bank,housing the homeless,etc,)than the majority of the cradle catholics there,I contribute financially to the parish as well as catholic relief services,i also attend anglican and lutheran churches by myself,whether YOU legalists admit it or not i,m in spiritual communion with the catholic church,for the longest time i sat in the pew and asked the lord for spiritual communion during holy eucharist,the beautiful people at the parish as well as the priest encouraged me to commune,as stated i,m hardly just a guest at the parish.i know and i have faith that jesus knows that i,m doing nothing wrong! in christian unity,luthcath

 

[InnerPhyre]

If you're in spiritual communion, then get confirmed and become Catholic and renounce the heresies of Lutheranism.

 

[masuwerte]

Please don't take offence, but I've taken Communion at about five different Catholic parishes on different occasions over the years, always asking the priest first. Only once was I asked to refrain, which I did. I would respect the judgment of the priests I spoke with.

 

[Paul S]

I don't know how to put this in a gentle manner - so I will just say it - I think there would be much less issue with "scandal" were we (collective we) not so very quick to assume that we know all about others and their actions just because we read some story in the news or something.

Are you familar with what the sin of scandal is?

Even if the bishop or the Pope allowed this, so there's no sin in receiving, the message it sends to the world is that non-Catholics may receive Communion. So, next time a Protestant gets turned away at Mass, he'll be confused about why it was allowed here but not at his parish, and may think that the Church is just a bunch of stupid rules.

 

[Benedicta00]

well brothers in christ,i,m in a interfaith marriage(wifes catholic,I raised lutheran)i,m a registered member of her parish and am more active(parish food bank,housing the homeless,etc,)than the majority of the cradle catholics there,I contribute financially to the parish as well as catholic relief services,i also attend anglican and lutheran churches by myself,whether YOU legalists admit it or not i,m in spiritual communion with the catholic church,for the longest time i sat in the pew and asked the lord for spiritual communion during holy eucharist,the beautiful people at the parish as well as the priest encouraged me to commune,as stated i,m hardly just a guest at the parish.i know and i have faith that jesus knows that i,m doing nothing wrong! in christian unity,luthcath

Then that parish needs to be brought to the attention of the bishop. This is a cry and a shame is what this is.

Please answer this legalists something- if you want to be Catholic then why not just convert??? Oh let me guess, because you don’t believe in everything that she teaches? Then how can you say you are in union?

I really do want you to answer my post? What role does TRUTH play in all of this unity you have going on?

 

[Benedicta00]

Please don't take offence, but I've taken Communion at about five different Catholic parishes on different occasions over the years, always asking the priest first. Only once was I asked to refrain, which I did. I would respect the judgment of the priests I spoke with.

For those concerned, I think I just had a small heartattack.

Y’all think this is all funny maybe, I dunno but what kind of scandal do you think you are causing? You know, many Catholics can be driven to schisms because of this junk that you claim is happening in parishes.