The Concept of sin

[St_Worm2]

"Imputed sin/righteousness" ... that brings up an interesting point.

We (Orthodox) read the Scriptures say that God imputes righteousness - a verb. Not that we receive a thing (noun) called "imputed righteousness". But it is difficult to explain to a Protestant understanding.

However, I am interested in the assumption that sin is also "imputed". Is this the assumption that every human person born is guilty of Adam's sin?

Orthodox do not believe this btw. Each person is accused by their own sins, not by those of anyone except himself. But of course, forgiveness is available.

Hi Anastasia, my understanding is that the sins of God's elect are imputed/credited/reckoned/etc. to Christ, and that His righteousness, merited for us by the perfect, righteous life He lived among us, is credited to our accounts ... along with the sharing of His Divine righteousness, of course (by which we literally become the very, "righteousness of God in Him" .. 2 Corinthians 5:21).

δικαιοσύνη [dikaiosune] - "righteousness" in 2 Cor 5:21 is a noun, just FYI.

As for the Judgment, we believe/the Bible teaches, that each man/woman will be judged by God according to what they have done, not what anyone else has done. We believe that we inherited our sinful nature from our progenitors, but the actual sinning (what we will be held accountable for before God), we do all by ourselves.

Yours and His,
David

"He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on
our behalf, that we might become the
righteousness of God in Him"
2 Corinthians 5:21​

 

[~Anastasia~]

Hi Anastasia, my understanding is that the sins of God's elect are imputed/credited/reckoned/etc. to Christ, and that His righteousness, merited for us by the perfect, righteous life He lived among us, is credited to our accounts ... along with the sharing of His Divine righteousness, of course (by which we literally become the very, "righteousness of God in Him" .. 2 Corinthians 5:21).

δικαιοσύνη [dikaiosune] - "righteousness" in 2 Cor 5:21 is a noun, just FYI.

As for the Judgment, we believe/the Bible teaches, that each man/woman will be judged by God according to what they have done, not what anyone else has done. We believe that we inherited our sinful nature from our progenitors, but the actual sinning (what we will be held accountable for before God), we do all by ourselves.

Yours and His,
David

"He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on
our behalf, that we might become the
righteousness of God in Him"
2 Corinthians 5:21​

That seems like something of a middle ground from among the variety of theories I've heard regarding sin.

We agree then that none of us is responsible/guilty for the sins of Adam or anyone else.

Orthodoxy understands the curse of death to be the result of Adam's sin, through which death passed to all men. But not as a punishment - rather as a natural consequence of man deliberately separating himself from God, who is the Source of our life.

We also agree that it is through Christ's sacrifice that we are reconciled to God, but not in the form of a righteousness of His that God sees when He looks at us. Rather, through the power of the Holy Spirit, the grace of God, we become ACTUALLY more and more like Christ. However, I do not mean to imply that it is our perfection that "purchases" our salvation - it doesn't, and we can't.

I think I'll leave it at that. One of these days I hope to have that more indepth conversation with you.

God be with you and yours, my brother.

 

[St_Worm2]

Hi Sister, we will talk more about this in time I am sure (Dv)

In the meantime however, my understanding of becoming the "righteousness of God", not simply "righteous" (which seems to be God's intention for us) is a) something FAR, FAR greater than we could ever accomplish by growing in Christlikeness and b) something that we cannot have apart from Him.

I believe you guys coined the word I'm looking for. "Theosis", yes

 

[Ron Gurley]

Post #20 " Q: I am interested in the assumption that sin is also "imputed". Is this the assumption that every human person born is guilty of Adam's sin?
A: No. That is the false doctrine of "original sin"!
IMO every person, including A&E, were naturally born with SPIRITUAL:
1. "free will" to accept/reject...obey/disobey the calling of God to ALL of Mankind's SPIRITS. God is not a puppeteer!
2. a "sin nature" =
the natural-born capacity and inclination to do / not do those things that can in no way commend Man and his own "works" to God....
This nature is SPIRITUALLY changed by salvation / redemption, BUT it still rears its ugly head in BODY / SOUL after salvation, during sanctification

Surely I was sinful (sin PRONE) at birth (Psalm 51:5)
(An unknowing infant is incable of sinning!)

Matthew 15 (NASB)...Jesus on The "Heart"/soul/spirit of Man = innate "sin nature"
15 Peter said to Him (Jesus), “Explain the parable to us.”(disciples) 16 Jesus said,
“Are you still lacking in understanding also?
17 Do you not understand that everything that goes into the mouth passes into the stomach, and is eliminated?
18 But the things that proceed out of the mouth come from the "heart", and those defile the man.
19 For out of the "heart" come
evil thoughts,
murders,
adulteries,
fornications,
thefts,
false witness,
slanders. (as EXAMPLES!
20 These are the things which defile the man;
but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile the man.”

Romans 5 (NASB)...extracts...death through Adamic disobedience, spiritual life THROUGH Christ
6 For while we (believers) were still helpless (sinners),
at the right time Christ died FOR the ungodly.(substitutionary atonement)
11 And not only this, but we also exult in God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
THROUGH whom we have now received the reconciliation. (salvation)
12 Therefore, just as through one man (A&E) sin entered into the world (through disobedience), and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned—(followed their "sin nature")
13 for until the (Mosaic) "Law", sin was (already) in the world, but sin is not IMPUTED when there is no "law".
14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam,(= disobedience)
who is a type of Him (Jesus) who was to come.
15b...For if by the transgression of the one (A&E) the many died, much more did the grace of God and
the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many....
17 For if by the transgression of the one (A&E), death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the GIFT OF (imputed) righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ....
19 For as through the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous.(imputed righteousness / holiness)

2 Corinthians 5:21...IMPUTATION!
He made Him who knew no sin
to be sin on our behalf,
so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

 

[Ron Gurley]

Both SIN (noun) and RIGHTEOUSNESS (aka Holiness = nouns) can be spiritually IMPUTED!

IMPUTED SIN and/or Righteousness...Romans 5:12. 15-17 (NIV)...Death Through Adam, Life Through Christ

Genesis 15:6
Then he (Abraham) believed in the LORD; and He reckoned it to him as righteousness.

it to him as righteousness ...Hebrew (noun)6666... tsĕdaqah... justice , right , righteous acts, righteousness (as vindicated), justification, salvation


Matthew 5:6
“Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied.

for righteousness...Greek 1343 (noun)...dikaiosynē...
I.in a broad sense: state of him who is as he ought to be,..., the condition acceptable to God
A.the doctrine concerning the way in which man may attain a state approved of God
B.integrity, virtue, purity of life, rightness, correctness of thinking feeling, and acting

Romans 5 (NASB)...extracts...death through Adamic disobedience, spiritual life THROUGH Christ
6 For while we (believers) were still helpless (sinners),
at the right time Christ died FOR the ungodly.(substitutionary atonement)
11 And not only this, but we also exult in God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
through whom we have now received the reconciliation. (salvation)
12 Therefore, just as through one man (A&E) sin entered into the world (through disobedience), and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned—(followed their "sin nature")
13 for until the (Mosaic) "Law", sin was (already) in the world, but sin is not IMPUTED when there is no "law".
14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam,(=disobedience)
who is a type of Him (Jesus) who was to come.
15b...For if by the transgression of the one (A&E) the many died, much more did the grace of God and
the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many....
17 For if by the transgression of the one (A&E), death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the GIFT OF (imputed) righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ....
19 For as through the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous.(imputed righteousness / holiness)

2 Corinthians 5:21...IMPUTATION!
He made Him who knew no sin (the ONLY SINLESS ONE)
to be sin on our behalf,
so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

 

[Ron Gurley]

Post #20: "righteousness - a verb"

OOPS...it is a NOUN in both Hebrew and Greek.

Genesis 15:6
Then he (Abraham) believed in the LORD;
and He reckoned it to him as righteousness.

it to him as righteousness ...Hebrew (noun) 6666... tsedaqah...
justice , right , righteous acts, righteousness (as vindicated), justification, salvation

Matthew 5:6...Jesus' Sermon on the Mount
“Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied.

for righteousness...Greek 1343...dikaiosyne...
I.in a broad sense: state of him who is as he ought to be,..., the condition acceptable to God
A.the doctrine concerning the way in which man may attain a state approved of God
B.integrity, virtue, purity of life, rightness, correctness of thinking feeling, and acting

Both SIN (noun) and RIGHTEOUSNESS (aka Holiness = nouns) can be spiritually IMPUTED!

" forgiveness is available"

Q: For WHOM?? A: ONLY for truly saved BELIEVERS!

"FOR" = Greek 1519 "eis" ~= into, unto, to, towards, for, among, (because of?) (in place of?)

FORGIVENESS / REMISSION ...Greek 859 - "aphesis'...release from bondage or imprisonment; forgiveness or pardon, of sins
(letting them go as if they had never been committed), remission of the penalty

Forgiveness of Sin / Sin(s) is ONE of the spiritual benefits of salvation!...(all NASB)

Matthew 26:28
for this is My blood of the covenant,
which is poured out for many FOR forgiveness of sins.

Mark 14:24
And He said to them, “This is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out FOR many.

Luke 22:20
And in the same way He took the cup after they had eaten, saying,
“This cup which is poured out FOR you is the NEW covenant IN My blood.

Luke 1:77
To give to His people the knowledge of salvation,
By (knowing) the forgiveness of their sins,

Act 5:31
“He is the one whom God exalted to His right hand as a Prince and a Savior,
to grant repentance to Israel, and (to grant) forgiveness of sins.

Act 10:43
“Of Him all the prophets bear witness that
through His name everyone who BELIEVES in Him
receives forgiveness of sins.”

Ephesians 1:7
IN Him, we have redemption THROUGH His blood,
the forgiveness of our trespasses,
according to the riches of His GRACE

Colosians 1:14
in whom we have redemption,
the forgiveness of sins.

 

[Ron Gurley]

IMPUTATION!

Romans 5 (NASB)...extracts...death through Adamic disobedience, spiritual life THROUGH Christ
6 For while we (believers) were still helpless (sinners),
at the right time Christ died FOR the ungodly.(substitutionary atonement)
11 And not only this, but we also exult in God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
through whom we have now received the reconciliation. (salvation)
12 Therefore, just as through one man (A&E) sin entered into the world (through disobedience), and death through sin,
and so death spread to all men, because all sinned—(followed their "sin nature")
13 for until the (Mosaic) "Law", sin was (already) in the world,
but sin is not IMPUTED when there is no law.
14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses,
even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam,(=disobedience)
who is a type of Him (Jesus) who was to come.
15b...For if by the transgression of the one (A&E) the many died,
much more did the grace of God and
the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many....
17 For if by the transgression of the one (A&E), death reigned through the one,
much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the GIFT OF (imputed) righteousness
will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ....
19 For as through the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners,
even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous.(imputed righteousness / holiness)

2 Corinthians 5:21...IMPUTATION!
He made Him who knew no sin
to be sin on our behalf,
so that we might become the righteousness of God IN Him.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Yes, thank you for your point of view. I was just curious as I don't usually hear of imputed sin, so I was curious about your take on that.

It is "imputing" that is the verb, that I was referring to, btw. Not sin or righteousness. But the nuances I mentioned are involved with the action of God imputing.

Thank you again.

 

[hedrick]

Imputation is difficult, because many of the texts commonly cited require more careful exegesis. You can see that in the citations above.

E.g. it’s not so clear that 2 Cor 5:21 is imputation. It says that God made Christ sin so that in him we could become the righteousness of God.

This is highly compressed language. Our understanding of it is likely to come from our broader understanding of Paul. E.g. Rom 6 suggests that in Christ we die to death and rise with him to new life. This isn’t what one typically thinks of as imputation. The suggestion is that in Christ we actually enter new life with him. Similarly, one might reasonably understand that because we are united with him he becomes part of our sinful lives, in order to transform them. This isn’t quite imputation. It’s more participation. We participate in his new life, and by analogy he through our union participates in our sinful lives.

I think saying that Christ was made sin is more naturally understood in this sense than in the sense that sin was imputed to him. Being made sin suggests something real, not just a legal status (which is the usual Protestant understanding of imputation). See e.g. 1 For 6:15 ff, in which he somewhat shockingly suggests that using a prostitute involves Christ in that action.

 

[~Anastasia~]

I do like the wording of Christ participating with us, or we with Him, in living our lives toward a more actually righteous state.

That fits better with the action of the grace of God at work with and in us, transforming us into Christlikeness.