Earth, then light (Big Bang), Created on Day One; Sun, Moon and Stars Created on Day Four

[mark kennedy]

Great points.

I would add however, that the light in creation week possibly came from the Spirit of God who was hovering over the seas. If that were the case, earth need not have been rotating to get morning and evening...He could have been moving!

That's possible with the initial light, it's thought to be the shekinah glory of God as seen in the Tabranacle and Tenple. The days of creation on the other hand indicate the normal sunrise and sunset due to the earth rotating around the sun.

 

[dad]

It's commonly believed that the sun, moon and stars were created day four.

As stated, I am aware people grasp at straws and weld and try to reinvent Scripture to conform to the wisdom of this world.

Looking closely at the original it says they were made day four not created, two very different words translated 'created' and 'made' are used.

So what? The reason He used slightly different nuances of words we don't know. Perhaps it was the way He created different things. Perhaps He used the words interchangeably. Perhaps if the stars were not created in the way it seemingly states, the rest of the bible might have reflected that major 'fact'!?

As it stands it looks to me like a major grasping at straws to try and conform the bible to man's foolish so called wisdom.

As far as the disapproval of science or any naturalistic wirld view I expext and welcome their disaporoval. I base my view on the testimony of Scripture and have done extensive studies in Genesis, Job, Isaiah and the New Testament witness.

Anything in those other books to support your claim about stars being made before the earth?

 

[dad]

That's possible with the initial light, it's thought to be the shekinah glory of God as seen in the Tabranacle and Tenple. The days of creation on the other hand indicate the normal sunrise and sunset due to the earth rotating around the sun.

OK, so where does Gen 1 indicate that in the verses before the sun and stars were made? Or are you just talking about after the sun and stars were created and subsequent days?

 

[StevenMerten]

Time dilation and space flight​

Time dilation would make it possible for passengers in a fast-moving vehicle to travel further into the future while aging very little, in that their great speed slows down the rate of passage of on-board time. That is, the ship's clock (and according to relativity, any human traveling with it) shows less elapsed time than the clocks of observers on earth. For sufficiently high speeds the effect is dramatic. For example, one year of travel might correspond to ten years at home. Indeed, a constant 1 g acceleration would permit humans to travel through the entire known Universe in one human lifetime. The space travelers could return to Earth billions of years in the future.

A scenario based on this idea was presented in the novel Planet of the Apes by Pierre Boulle.

Quoted From: Wikipedia Time Dilation
​

We are Christians. We believe God when He says He Created the Universe, with Adam and Eve in it, in six days on earth, simply because our Omnipotent God tells us this.

Atheist Scientists understand that once they get star ships that can travel at near the speed of light, they will be able to travel the whole universe in one lifetime, but will return to earth tens of billions of years into earth's future.

If you explain to an atheist scientist that all God has to do, to get billions of years of star formation in six (24 hour) earth days, is to put earth in the trunk of His, near light speed star ship, and fly around for a couple hours, then the atheist scientist will understand God's six days of Creation and agree with you.

Let we Christians go explain God's Creation in six days, to the atheist scientists, in the scientific language they understand. Then they will stop hounding us on how God creating the universe in six days could never have happened.

Concept quoted from:
Using Time Dilation, Billions of years of Star Formation Can Occur in Six Days.

 

[Halbhh]

As stated, I am aware people grasp at straws and weld and try to reinvent Scripture to conform to the wisdom of this world.



So what? The reason He used slightly different nuances of words we don't know. Perhaps it was the way He created different things. Perhaps He used the words interchangeably. Perhaps if the stars were not created in the way it seemingly states, the rest of the bible might have reflected that major 'fact'!?

As it stands it looks to me like a major grasping at straws to try and conform the bible to man's foolish so called wisdom.




Anything in those other books to support your claim about stars being made before the earth?

A vision doesn't make sense to the person seeing it in scriptures, we see many times, unless God speaks some words (or an interpreter like Joseph helps with a divine gift of insight), to help the person seeing the vision partially understand, or begin to understand, the key message.

The key message is not everything about all things seen in the vision necessarily, but the key, essential message is the purpose of the vision, as a whole.

Consider Peter's vision in Acts:

9 About noon the following day as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the roof to pray. 10 He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance. 11 He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners.12 It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles and birds. 13 Then a voice told him, “Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.”

14 “Surely not, Lord!” Peter replied. “I have never eaten anything impure or unclean.”

15 The voice spoke to him a second time, “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.”

16 This happened three times, and immediately the sheet was taken back to heaven.

17 While Peter was wondering about the meaning of the vision, the men sent by Cornelius found out where Simon’s house was and stopped at the gate. 18 They called out, asking if Simon who was known as Peter was staying there.
...
Acts 10 NIV


There is a key message, the purpose, and the words from God are to help the recipient begin to understand that key message. Without His words, they would not know why or what is meant.

So, in Genesis chapter 1, as you read it, you see God says some actual words, intersperced in Moses's account. The words from God we can expect are to help Moses understand the key message.

Instead of total confusion.

Moses would not know what he was seeing in the early part of Genesis chapter 1 without help. He would not be able to make sense of a dark Earth waterworld, etc. It would look like a swirling dream-like thing without clear meaning, unrecognizable.

Until God speaks some key words, and meaning begins to then come.

 

[Kaon]

If you can travel back and forth in the time (which is possible), consider the implications of our predestination associated with it.

Think about what it means in terms of what the Most High God has founded already, and what He has promised to found in the "future". Time is extremely relative, and is not a real dimension. It is a pseudo-dimension coupled to space. At higher dimensions, time does not "flow" like it flows for these lower spacial dimensions because the space itself does not "curve(ature)" in the same way it does in our space in which we are familiar.

 

[Zetetica]

If you explain to an atheist scientist that all God has to do, to get billions of years of star formation in six earth days, is to put earth in the trunk of His near light speed star ship, and fly around for a couple hours, then the atheist scientist will understand God's six days of Creation and agree with you.

Let we Christians go explain God's Creation in six days, to the atheist scientists, in the scientific language they understand. Then they will stop hounding us on how God creating the universe in six days could never have happened.

Concept quoted from:
Using Time Dilation, Billions of years of Star Formation Can Occur in Six Days.

Exactly why do we as Christians need to explain anything to those who are ignorant enough to call themselves "Atheists"? The very idea of a self generating universe is ridiculous, even from a scientific perspective. God's reality isn't hidden, it's evident in creation.

Does the Atheist look on a car and not understand that it has a designer? Indeed he or she does. Does he or she not understand that a fine watch has a designer? Yes, he or she does. Yet when it comes to the human body, it has no designer? When it comes to the great celestial clock above our heads, with the Sun telling minutes, hours, days, the Moon telling months, and the stars telling years and seasons, this clock has no designer?

Creation is evidence of God, one need only look up and around to see that. He is evident in every blade of grass, every snowflake and drop of water, every creature; He is evident and it takes willful ignorance and delusion to believe otherwise.

In nature, life doesn't self generate from non life, and a universe doesn't do so either. This is anti science and anti God.

I no more need to inform an Atheist that God exists than I need to inform them that they aren't going to float off into outer space or that they don't need to worry about "falling up" or "falling sideways". What I need to do for the Atheist is love them as God has loved me, forgive them as God had forgiven me, pray for them, and tell them the Good News, even though they may scoff or argue.

I can also explain my views and beliefs to them, either firmly, gently or not at all, depending on the circumstances. However, it's not necessary that I do explain my views, only that I do the things I mentioned above.

 

[gideon123]

There are many presumptuous comments on this thread.

First, who wrote Genesis? Honest answer .. we dont know. Not even the best theologian knows the answer. So it is very prideful, if people think that they are a greater authority than that.

It is possible that Moses recorded Genesis. But this only means that he wrote the words on papyrus. It does not mean that Moses was present. He was not. So the Genesis account was passed down by word-of-mouth for many generations.

All we know is that Genesis was probably written at a time more distant than 3000 years ago.

So you cannot pull words out of Genesis, and then out of Exodus, and immediately claim they are the same thing. Do some real research!

Nobody knows WHAT words God spoke in Genesis 1. Who to??? The Hebrews had no word for ' Universe'. They did not understand what the idea meant.

People here need a lot more humility, and much more study of theology.

 

[StevenMerten]

If you can travel back and forth in the time (which is possible), consider the implications of our predestination associated with it.

Think about what it means in terms of what the Most High God has founded already, and what He has promised to found in the "future". Time is extremely relative, and is not a real dimension. It is a pseudo-dimension coupled to space. At higher dimensions, time does not "flow" like it flows for these lower spacial dimensions because the space itself does not "curve(ature)" in the same way it does in our space in which we are familiar.

Hello Kaon,
God exists outside of the physical time, and the physical world, which He Created. God is Omni-Present to the whole of created physical time, Creation. God can, and did, go back in physical time to adjust Creation.

Did you ever wonder why plant life was created on Day Three of Creation, but animal life was Created on Day Five of Creation? Animals on earth, including dinosaurs, were an after thought of God's, 'It is not good for the man to be alone'. God only thought of introducing animals on earth, after Adam was Created, on Creation Day Six. God went back to Creation Day Five, or, highly likely added Creation Day Five, and re-Created the past of the universe, with animals in it.

Dinosaurs should have lived, during the possible hundreds of millions of years passing in Creation Day Three, if they were God's original plan. Earth had already been locked down to 24 hour days, and in our sun's orbit, on Day Four of Creation. Man was already Created on Creation Day Six. It is highly likely, that, while hundreds of millions of years of plant life, lived and flourished during Day Three of Creation, Dinosaurs were only inserted into earth's recorded past of Creation Day Three, on Creation Day Five, by God. This is the first record of multiple realities.

God also put Adam into an unconscious state, and re-Created man as man and woman.

Now that is an All Powerful God!

Genesis 2:18
The LORD God said: It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suited to him. So the LORD God formed out of the ground all the wild animals and all the birds of the air, and he brought them to the man to see what he would call them; whatever the man called each living creature was then its name. The man gave names to all the tame animals, all the birds of the air, and all the wild animals; but none proved to be a helper suited to the man. So the LORD God cast a deep sleep on the man, and while he was asleep, he took out one of his ribs and closed up its place with flesh.

The LORD God then built the rib that he had taken from the man into a woman. When he brought her to the man, the man said:

“This one, at last, is bone of my bones

and flesh of my flesh;

This one shall be called ‘woman,’

for out of man this one has been taken.”
​

I talk about multiple realities, such as God re-Creating the universe with animals in it, in my thread: Scientific Proof That the Universe Does Not Exist without Conscious Man, Adam, to Observe it.

 

[_Dave_]

My immediate thought upon reading the OP was to go to Revelation. Genesis is the beginning of all things, Revelation is the end, and they are inexorably tied together.

In Rev 21 we see where the holy city New Jerusalem comes down to a new earth, as the old heaven and earth are passed away. There is no need for the sun and moon anymore, since light will be provided by the glory of God ... "for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof. ..."

Is it a stretch to imagine that a God who could create the universe with only his word, and then destroy it at the end and rebuild it again, could provide light himself during the first few days of creation before arranging the sun and moon to begin the daily/nightly cycle? That's a trivial endeavor for Him, don't you think?

 

[Kaon]

Hello Kaon,
God exists outside of the physical time, and the physical world, which He Created. God is Omni-Present to the whole of created physical time, Creation. God can, and did, go back in physical time to adjust Creation.

Did you ever wonder why plant life was created on Day Three of Creation, but animal life was Created on Day Five of Creation? Earth was locked down to 24 hour days, in our sun's orbit, on Day Four of Creation. Animals on earth, including dinosaurs, were an after thought of God's. God only thought of introducing animals on earth, after Adam was Created. God went back to Creation Day Five, and re-Created the past of the universe, with animals in it. God also put Adam into an unconscious state, and re-Created man as man and woman.

Now that is an All Powerful God!

Genesis 2:18
The LORD God said: It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suited to him. So the LORD God formed out of the ground all the wild animals and all the birds of the air, and he brought them to the man to see what he would call them; whatever the man called each living creature was then its name. The man gave names to all the tame animals, all the birds of the air, and all the wild animals; but none proved to be a helper suited to the man. So the LORD God cast a deep sleep on the man, and while he was asleep, he took out one of his ribs and closed up its place with flesh.

The LORD God then built the rib that he had taken from the man into a woman. When he brought her to the man, the man said:

“This one, at last, is bone of my bones

and flesh of my flesh;

This one shall be called ‘woman,’

for out of man this one has been taken.”​

Interesting...

Although, I am extremely and utterly cautious about calling time a physical entity. Time evolves because of perturbations/fluctuations in the curvature of a space - hence being "coupled" to the x-y-z coordinate system as we know it, giving it its moniker of SPACE-TIME. It categorically breaks down when we get to 5+ spacial dimensions, because the physical curvatures of glomes and higher order manifolds are different than for 3D.

 

[Zetetica]

Did you ever wonder why plant life was created on Day Three of Creation, but animal life was Created on Day Five of Creation? Earth was locked down to 24 hour days, in our sun's orbit, on Day Four of Creation. Animals on earth, including dinosaurs, were an after thought of God's. God only thought of introducing animals on earth, after Adam was Created. God went back to Creation Day Five, and re-Created the past of the universe, with animals in it. God also put Adam into an unconscious state, and re-Created man as man and woman.

Now that is an All Powerful God!

What in the world?

The sun was created on day 4, how exactly was Earth orbiting it before it was created?

 

[StevenMerten]

My immediate thought upon reading the OP was to go to Revelation. Genesis is the beginning of all things, Revelation is the end, and they are inexorably tied together.

In Rev 21 we see where the holy city New Jerusalem comes down to a new earth, as the old heaven and earth are passed away. There is no need for the sun and moon anymore, since light will be provided by the glory of God ... "for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof. ..."

Is it a stretch to imagine that a God who could create the universe with only his word, and then destroy it at the end and rebuild it again, could provide light himself during the first few days of creation before arranging the sun and moon to begin the daily/nightly cycle? That's a trivial endeavor for Him, don't you think?

Hello Dave,
I am going to have to respectfully disagree with you.

The "Let There Be Light", God Commanded into existence on Day One of Creation, was physical light to the universe. The Light of Jesus', Second Coming, to reside within His Church, 'The New Jerusalem', in a new and spectacular way, is Jesus' Words, miracles, signs and wonders, which will be happening in Jesus', post Armageddon, Church. Jesus is the 'Light to the Nations', presently, but upon Jesus' Second Coming, residing in His Church, on earth, He will be the supercharged 'Light to the Nations'.

Jesus Light in The Restored Kingdom of Israel, 'The New Jerusalem', is talking about Jesus spiritual guidance on earth, with Jesus' residing in His Church in a new and spectacular way. God's "Let There Be Light" on Day One of Creation, is physical light to the universe.

Revelation 21:9 The New Jerusalem.
"Come, I will show you the woman who is the bride of the Lamb." He carried me away in spirit to the top of a very high mountain and showed me the holy city of Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God. It gleamed with the splendor of God. The city had the radiance of a precious jewel that sparkled like a diamond. Its wall, massive and high, had twelve gates at which twelve angles were stationed. Twelve names were written on the gates, the names of the twelve tribes of Israel. There were three gates facing east, three north, three south, and three west. The wall of the city had twelve courses of stones as its foundation, on which were written the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
The one who spoke to me held a rod of gold for measuring the city, its gates, and its wall. The city is perfectly square, its length and its width being the same. He measured the city with the rod and found it twelve thousand furlongs in length, in width, and in height. Its wall measured a hundred and forty-four cubits in height by the unit of measurement the angel used. The wall was constructed of jasper; the city was of pure gold, crystal clear. The foundation of the city wall was ornate with precious stones of every sort: the first course of stones was jasper, the second sapphire, the third chalcedony, the fourth emerald, the fifth sardonyx, the sixth carnelian, the seventh chrysolite, the eighth beryl, the ninth topaz, the tenth chrysoprase, the eleventh hyacinth, and the twelfth amethyst. the twelve gates were twelve pearls, each made of a single pearl; and the streets of the city were of pure gold, transparent as glass.

I saw no temple in the city, The Lord God the Almighty, is its temple he and the Lamb. The city had no need of sun or moon, for the glory of God gave it light, and its lamp was the Lamb. The nations shall walk by its light; to it the kings of the earth shall bring their treasures.

Genesis 1
Day One
In the beginning, when God created the heavens and the earth and the earth was without form or shape, with darkness over the abyss and a mighty wind sweeping over the waters—

Then God said: Let there be light, and there was light.

God saw that the light was good. God then separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” Evening came, and morning followed—the first day.​

 

[StevenMerten]

What in the world?

The sun was created on day 4, how exactly was Earth orbiting it before it was created?

Hello Sunlight,
That is the exact concept of this thread. Earth was not orbiting anything on Day One of Creation. Earth came into orbiting the sun on Day Four of Creation. Our sun did not even exist yet, on Day One of Creation. Our sun was made from the Big Bang. Earth already existed when the Big Bang went off.

 

[Zetetica]

Hello Sunlight,
That is the exact concept of this thread. Earth was not orbiting anything on Day One of Creation. Earth came into orbiting the sun on Day Four of Creation. Our sun did not even exist yet, on Day One of Creation. Our sun was made from the Big Bang. Earth already existed when the Big Bang went off.

Okay...

You are stating that Earth existed before the Sun and that means Earth was not orbiting and unlikely spinning, though may have been, (inertia from the expansion event). That makes less sense to me than the expansion from singularity (Big Bang theory) to begin with.

Furthermore, are you stating that Earth existed before the expansion? If so, now it's far more confusing than it already was when I assumed you meant Earth was formed from the expansion event.

However, reading your comment here, I suspect you are stating that either the expansion event happened twice (Earth formed from it) and then somehow, (Sun made from it). Either way, it doesn't make sense to me, not scientifically or scripturally.

 

[_Dave_]

Hello Dave,
I am going to have to respectfully disagree with you.

The "Let There Be Light", God Commanded into existence on Day One of Creation, was physical light to the universe. The Light of Jesus', Second Coming, to reside within His Church, 'The New Jerusalem', in a new and spectacular way, is Jesus' Words, miracles, signs and wonders, which will be happening in Jesus', post Armageddon, Church. Jesus is the 'Light to the Nations', presently, but upon Jesus' Second Coming, residing in His Church, on earth, He will be the supercharged 'Light to the Nations'.

It's OK to disagree. We obviously have a very different hermeneutical approach.

 

[StevenMerten]

I suspect you are stating that either the expansion event happened twice (Earth formed from it) and then somehow, (Sun made from it). Either way, it doesn't make sense to me, not scientifically or scripturally.

Genesis 1 Day One
In the beginning, when God created the heavens and the earth and the earth was without form or shape, with darkness over the abyss and a mighty wind sweeping over the waters—

Then God said: Let there be light, and there was light.
​

Hello Sunlight,
Ok, I will help you. What part in Genesis One, About, 'In the beginning, when God created the heavens and the earth' and then later that day 'Then God said: Let there be light, and there was light.' do you not understand about scriptures?

 

[Zetetica]

Genesis 1 Day One
In the beginning, when God created the heavens and the earth and the earth was without form or shape, with darkness over the abyss and a mighty wind sweeping over the waters—

Then God said: Let there be light, and there was light.
​

Hello Sunlight,
Ok, I will help you. What part in Genesis One, About, 'In the beginning, when God created the heavens and the earth' and then later that day 'Then God said: Let there be light, and there was light.' do you not understand about scriptures?

... and God called the light DAY, and the darkness He called night.

How exactly is DAY the expansion event?

 

[StevenMerten]

... and God called the light DAY, and the darkness He called night.

How exactly is DAY the expansion event?

The Big Bang.

 

[Zetetica]

The Big Bang.

You realize, it wasn't a "bang" right? Also, it's still not ... DAY.