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Featured Earth, then light (Big Bang), Created on Day One; Sun, Moon and Stars Created on Day Four

Discussion in 'Creationism' started by StevenMerten, Jan 6, 2019.

  1. This concept is allowable for a Creationist.

    14 vote(s)
    45.2%
  2. This concept is unallowable for a Creationist

    17 vote(s)
    54.8%
  3. The biblical definition of 'day', is one dark, light, cycle; Not 24 hours, until Day Four

    2 vote(s)
    6.5%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. StevenMerten

    StevenMerten I Love You, God!

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    On Day One, God created earth. Then God said "Let There Be Light". I think it is obvious that the first light in the Universe was, what scientist refer to as, 'The Big Bang'. Earth was created first, and then the Big Bang was Commanded by God to come into existence.

    Earth does not come into our sun's orbit till day four of Creation. So the conclusion is, that earth is getting it's light from the Big Bang, on Creation days one through part of day four. It is on day four that earth enters into orbit around our sun, and thus 24 hour day and night, month, and year, cycles, begin.

    What is interesting is that plant life is already created on day three, before we have our sun.

    As I have already explained in other posts: Using Time Dilation, Billions of years of Star Formation Can Occur in Six Days. It is scientifically allowable to get a young earth, from its origin, of before God creates light (The Big Bang), to the day Adam was made, in six 24 hour days, using scientifically proven Time Dilation. However, as for days one through part of day four, days are not locked into a 24 hour period yet. Depending on just how fast, or in this case, how slow, earth is rotating, days could even be tens of millions of, 'present day years', long, on day one through four, of Creation.

    Lets discuss this.

    Genesis 1:1 The Story of Creation.

    Day One
    In the beginning
    , when God created the heavens and the earth and the earth was without form or shape, with darkness over the abyss and a mighty wind sweeping over the waters—

    Then God said: Let there be light, and there was light.

    God saw that the light was good. God then separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” Evening came, and morning followed—the first day.

    Day Three
    Then God said: Let the earth bring forth vegetation: every kind of plant that bears seed and every kind of fruit tree on earth that bears fruit with its seed in it. And so it happened: the earth brought forth vegetation: every kind of plant that bears seed and every kind of fruit tree that bears fruit with its seed in it. God saw that it was good. Evening came, and morning followed—the third day.
    Day Four
    Then God said: Let there be lights in the dome of the sky, to separate day from night. Let them mark the seasons, the days and the years, and serve as lights in the dome of the sky, to illuminate the earth. And so it happened: God made the two great lights, the greater one to govern the day, and the lesser one to govern the night, and the stars.

    God set them in the dome of the sky, to illuminate the earth, to govern the day and the night, and to separate the light from the darkness. God saw that it was good. Evening came, and morning followed—the fourth day.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2019
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  2. mark kennedy

    mark kennedy Natura non facit saltum Supporter

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    Ok, the sun moon and stars were created before creation week started. It makes no sense that the earth was floating in an empty universe following original creation. The Scriptures don't say the sun and stars were created on day 4, but rather that they were made and set. The word for creation is used of the original creation of the universe, the creation of life in general and then three times in connection with the creation of Adam and Eve.
     
  3. HTacianas

    HTacianas Well-Known Member

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    The difficulty with the creation account of Genesis is not so much harmonizing it with the scientific view of the origins of the universe, but in making it into six literal days. To make it six literal days we have to accept that day was separated from night before there was a sun, and that there could be an evening and a morning without the sun.

    But then also note that God did not create plants, but commanded the earth to bring them forth. It takes time for plants to grow from the earth.

    This is a rather mind bending article. It's a fun read.

    https://custance.org/Library/WFANDV/chap1.html
     
  4. StevenMerten

    StevenMerten I Love You, God!

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    Hello HT,
    Did you even read my post? Yes the earth was created before the sun. The earth was created even before God's Big Bang, Let There Be Light! Earth and the Big Bang are created on the first day of creation. Wouldn't you agree that it is the Big Bang giving earth her light?
     
  5. mark kennedy

    mark kennedy Natura non facit saltum Supporter

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    I've spent a great deal of time on the creation issues and I'm convinced there is no problem with the actual scientific evidence. God creates everything in the universe 'in the beginning', that's your Big Bang. Then, for reasons known only to God, he starts creation week on earth. God creates an environment where life can dwell, then creates life and man in his own image. Evolution starts from there. I don't see a problem.
     
  6. HTacianas

    HTacianas Well-Known Member

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    Actually I was agreeing with you. :)
     
  7. StevenMerten

    StevenMerten I Love You, God!

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    Day One
    In the beginning
    , when God created the heavens and the earth and the earth was without form or shape, with darkness over the abyss and a mighty wind sweeping over the waters—

    Then God said: Let there be light, and there was light.

    God saw that the light was good. God then separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” Evening came, and morning followed—the first day.
    Hello Mark,
    How do you read the first day of Creation in the Bible, quoted above. Please explain what is happening on the first day of the week of creation.
     
  8. StevenMerten

    StevenMerten I Love You, God!

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    Oops! Sorry. Silly me.

    As long as we agree there could be a day and night without the sun. Earth is getting its light from God's, Let There Be Light! the Big Bang.
     
  9. mark kennedy

    mark kennedy Natura non facit saltum Supporter

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    You have two events here:

    In the beginning, when God created the heavens and the earth and the earth was without form or shape, with darkness over the abyss and a mighty wind sweeping over the waters—​

    That was the original creation, all we know is that it was 'in the beginning'. Then the Spirit of God is hovering over the face of the deep. The world is covered in water and thick clouds that do not let in any light:

    Then God said: Let there be light, and there was light.
    Then creation week starts:

    God saw that the light was good. God then separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” Evening came, and morning followed—the first day.
    The perspective is from the surface of the earth, light could not get in. Basically the first day God is thinning out the clouds, a process not complete until the fourth day.
     
  10. mark kennedy

    mark kennedy Natura non facit saltum Supporter

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    The Big Bang didn't happen until the fourth day according to you.
     
  11. StevenMerten

    StevenMerten I Love You, God!

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    Hello Mark,
    I think you are gravely misreading the days of the week of Creation. God makes light on the First Day of Creation, and the day/night cycle, from the light earth is receiving, is called the 'first day'. How could we have a day/night cycle without light. We have plants flourishing on earth on the third day. Don't you agree that the earth getting its light from the Big Bang, rather than our sun, is a much wiser way to decipher the first four days of the week of Creation?
     
  12. StevenMerten

    StevenMerten I Love You, God!

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    You are misrepresenting me miserably. The Big Bang is God's 'Let There Be Light!" on the first day of Creation. Right after earth is created on the First Day of Creation, the Big Bang goes off to give earth light.

    Earth does not enter into orbiting our sun until the Fourth Day of Creation.
     
  13. mark kennedy

    mark kennedy Natura non facit saltum Supporter

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    That doesn't make for a sound exposition, the earth was revolving around the sun but sun wasn't making it's way to the surface of the earth. The initial 'let there be light' may well have been the shekinah glory of God but for there to be evening and morning the first day you need the sun.
     
  14. mark kennedy

    mark kennedy Natura non facit saltum Supporter

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    You have greatly misunderstood my meaning, if all God created in the original creation was the earth, the Big Bang couldn't have happened until the fourth day. If the sun, moon and stars were not created before creation week started then you have the earth floating in a vacuum, the rest of the universe created day four, thus the Big Bang didn't happen until day 4.
     
  15. StevenMerten

    StevenMerten I Love You, God!

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    [​IMG]
    The Big Bang

    Hello Mark,
    You said, "for there to be evening and morning the first day you need the sun." What on earth are you talking about? Scripture tells us that the earth was created first and then God said, "Let There Be Light!" The Big Bang is God saying, "Let There Be Light!" God did not put earth into our sun's orbit till day four of creation. Because our sun did not yet exist. Obviously earth is receiving its light from the Big Bang to have its first night day cycle, which is to say, "Day One" of Creation. Don't you think?

    At the speed of light, physical time stops. If God has earth moving at the speed of light, or near the speed of light, God can get our earth to our, billions of years old, by then, sun, in four days on earth, using Time Dilation. God and man use Earth, day night cycles, as the clock of Creation.

    Twenty four hour, day night cycles, do not start until God puts earth into orbit around our sun. Before the Fourth Day of Creation, it is game on, for anything we want to allow to happen on earth, as Creationist, for as many 'present day millions of years', equivalent. Depending on how fast or slowly earth is rotating, using the Big Bang as its light source.

    On Day Four, God clearly states "Let them mark the seasons, the days and the years, and serve as lights in the dome of the sky, to illuminate the earth. And so it happened: God made the two great lights, the greater one to govern the day, and the lesser one to govern the night, and the stars.


    Time dilation and space flight

    Time dilation would make it possible for passengers in a fast-moving vehicle to travel further into the future while aging very little, in that their great speed slows down the rate of passage of on-board time. That is, the ship's clock (and according to relativity, any human traveling with it) shows less elapsed time than the clocks of observers on earth. For sufficiently high speeds the effect is dramatic. For example, one year of travel might correspond to ten years at home. Indeed, a constant 1 g acceleration would permit humans to travel through the entire known Universe in one human lifetime. The space travelers could return to Earth billions of years in the future. A scenario based on this idea was presented in the novel Planet of the Apes by Pierre Boulle.

    Quoted From: Wikipedia Time Dilation

    Genesis 1 Day Four
    Then God said: Let there be lights in the dome of the sky, to separate day from night. Let them mark the seasons, the days and the years, and serve as lights in the dome of the sky, to illuminate the earth. And so it happened: God made the two great lights, the greater one to govern the day, and the lesser one to govern the night, and the stars.

    God set them in the dome of the sky, to illuminate the earth, to govern the day and the night, and to separate the light from the darkness. God saw that it was good. Evening came, and morning followed—the fourth day.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2019
  16. mark kennedy

    mark kennedy Natura non facit saltum Supporter

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    The earth was in the sun's orbit from the original creation, well before the beginning of creation week, possibly billions of years earlier.

    Let's take a closer look at the text. The phrase, 'heaven and the earth', is a Hebrew expression meaning the universe. All we really get from this passage is that the cosmos and earth were created, 'in the beginning'. The perspective of creation week is from the surface of the earth, starting with the Spirit of God hovering over the deep (Gen. 1:2). In the chapter there are three words used for God's work in creation. The first is 'created' ('bara' H1254) a very precise term used only of God.

    Create ‘bara’ (H1254) - 'This verb has profound thological significance, since it has only God as it’s subject. Only God can create in the sense implied by bara. The verb expresses the idea of creation out of nothing...(Vines Expository Dictionary)
    It is used once to describe the creation of the universe (Gen 1:1), then again to describe the creation of life (Gen 1:21). Finally, in the closing verses, it is used three times for the creation of Adam and Eve (Gen. 1:27). The word translated, 'made' (asah 6213) , has a much broader range of meaning and is used to speak of the creation of the 'firmament' (Gen 1:7), the sun, moon and stars (Gen 1:16), procreation where offspring are made 'after his/their kind' (Gen 1:25) and as a general reference to creation in it's vast array (Gen 1:31).

    Made ‘asah’(H6213) "A primitive root; to do or make, in the broadest sense and widest application" (Gen 1:7, Gen 1:16, Gen 1:25, Gen 1:31, Isa. 41:20, 43:7, 45:7, 12, Amos 4:13). (Strong’s Dictionary).

    "The verb, which occurs over 2600 times in the Old Testament, is used as a synonym for “create” only about 60 times…only when asah is parallel to bara…can we be sure that it implies creation." (Vine 52).

    Then there is a third term when God 'set' (nathan H2414), the lights of the sun, moon and stars so that their light is reqularly visible from the surface of the earth. In this way the narrative shifts from the very precise word for 'created' to the more general 'made', and then the much broader use of 'set'.

    I don't know how many times I've encountered this time dilation ideal, but it has never made any sense to me. The narrative is straight forward.
     
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  17. StevenMerten

    StevenMerten I Love You, God!

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    Hello Mark,
    We are at an impasse of differences in deciphering God's scriptures on Creation. Its been good!

    Anyone else out there that wants to weigh in on the subject, please post!
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2019
  18. mark kennedy

    mark kennedy Natura non facit saltum Supporter

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    I think you have failed to do a real exposition but thanks for the exchange.
     
  19. StevenMerten

    StevenMerten I Love You, God!

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    Hello Mark,
    God tells us that the first light/dark cycle on Earth is the First Day of Creation. You telling us that Earth has had billions of years of dark/light cycles, maybe even 13.8 billion years of dark/light cycles on earth, before God's week of Creation, is really not what I expected on a Creationism Forum.

    Thanks for the exchange.
     
  20. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    Likely this refers to Paradise, not Earth, where Man was kicked out to.
     
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