Which came first: the Earth or the Sun?

[tonychanyt]

Genesis 1:

9 And God said, “Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear.” And it was so. 10 God called the dry land Earth, and the waters that were gathered together he called Seas. And God saw that it was good.

13 And there was evening and there was morning, the third day.

16 And God made the two great lights—the greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night—and the stars. 17 And God set them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth, 18to rule over the day and over the night, and to separate the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening and there was morning, the fourth day.

From the above, I understood that God made planet Earth on Day 3 and the sun on Day 4. Accordingly, from the biblical witness-time perspective, the earth appeared before the sun.

On the other hand, from the modern-day astronomy space-time perspective, the sun existed before the earth was formed.

I see them both as true, depending on the time perspective.

See How old is the earth?.

 

[HTacianas]

Genesis 1:




From the above, I understood that God made planet Earth on Day 3 and the sun on Day 4. Accordingly, from the biblical witness-time perspective, the earth appeared before the sun.

On the other hand, from the modern-day astronomy space-time perspective, the sun existed before the earth was formed.

I see them both as true, depending on the time perspective.

See How old is the earth?.

That's one of the reasons Christianity has never had a defined teaching on the creation of the universe.

 

[One God and Father of All]

Genesis 1:




From the above, I understood that God made planet Earth on Day 3 and the sun on Day 4. Accordingly, from the biblical witness-time perspective, the earth appeared before the sun.

On the other hand, from the modern-day astronomy space-time perspective, the sun existed before the earth was formed.

I see them both as true, depending on the time perspective.

See How old is the earth?.

The Bible indicates the earth existed before it was formed as we now know it. So, the question of what came first is unknown.

 

[trophy33]

Genesis 1:




From the above, I understood that God made planet Earth on Day 3 and the sun on Day 4. Accordingly, from the biblical witness-time perspective, the earth appeared before the sun.

On the other hand, from the modern-day astronomy space-time perspective, the sun existed before the earth was formed.

I see them both as true, depending on the time perspective.

See How old is the earth?.

If you "understand" that Genesis 1 is about a planet, then you are reading into the text concepts that were unknown to the authors.

 

[d taylor]

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The earth, it is right in Genesis 1:1 God created heaven and earth.

 

[Palmfever]

Does it matter?
How long was it before the earth was captured by the suns gravitational force?

 

[One God and Father of All]

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The earth, it is right in Genesis 1:1 God created heaven and earth.

But don’t you need to keep reading? Doesn’t the text go on to tell you how He created it?

 

[d taylor]

But don’t you need to keep reading? Doesn’t the text go on to tell you how He created it?

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No the text goes on to tell of God restoring the earth created in Genesis 1:1, but this time for humans. A sun, moon and stars are part of the earth God restored for humans. The sun, moon and stars were not part of the original creation in Genesis 1:1

 

[BobRyan]

Genesis 1:

From the above, I understood that God made planet Earth on Day 3 and the sun on Day 4.

Genesis 1 says "the EARTH" was formless and void on "day 1".. so on Day 1 it existed.
On Day 3 God put plants on the Earth.

So you could say "on Day 3 Earth finally had life on it, just-the-plants" -- but no sun or moon.

Accordingly, from the biblical witness-time perspective, the earth appeared before the sun.

Ex 20:8-11 puts the timeline for the 7 days of creation week - as the same timeline for the 7 day week at Sinai.

 

[BobRyan]

But don’t you need to keep reading? Doesn’t the text go on to tell you how He created it?

yes -- it tells us the sequence in which things were made.
It gives a time-boxed chronological sequence telling us the 1-day 1-rotation-of-planet units of time for each step.
It is confirmed in both the Gen 1-2:3 text and in the legal code of Ex 20:8-11 - telling us that the 7 days are the same units of time as at Sinai.

 

[BobRyan]

Does it matter?
How long was it before the earth was captured by the suns gravitational force?

There is no "Earth captured by Sun" in Genesis 1.

There is "THEN God made TWO great lights" -- on day 4 of the rotating planet Earth. A single day.

Some people "wish" to have the earth captured by the Sun since the nucleosynthesis fusion reactions on the Sun are too weak to have created the heavy Earth elements we have here on this planet - so obviously Earth could not have come from the accretion disc of the Sun.

 

[Palmfever]

There is no "Earth captured by Sun" in Genesis 1.

There is "THEN God made TWO great lights" -- on day 4 of the rotating planet Earth. A single day.

Some people "wish" to have the earth captured by the Sun since the nucleosynthesis fusion reactions on the Sun are too weak to have created the heavy Earth elements we have here on this planet - so obviously Earth could not have come from the accretion disc of the Sun.

I appreciate you Bob, we agree on many things I think. Since God didn't see fit to give much but a cursory account of how exactly things were made and spent most of scripture on His relationship with His human creation and redemption, I don't care how it was done. Some things are interesting to contemplate and I do at times, yet I've seen relationships broken over arguments about this, His second coming details, and other issues.
2 Timothy 2:16 However, avoid pointless discussions. For people will become more and more ungodly.
7. Titus 3:9 But avoid foolish controversies, arguments about genealogies, quarrels, and fights about the Law. These things are useless and worthless.

To me it's more about knowing Christ and walking with Him. There is nothing else that makes sense.
Men search for the "God particle" and deny God exists.
God stands there asking them to turn.
Isaiah 65
“I revealed Myself to those who did not ask for Me;
I was found by those who did not seek Me.
To a nation that did not call My name,
I said, ‘Here I am! Here I am!’
All day long I have held out My hands
to an obstinate people
who walk in the wrong path,
who follow their own imaginations,
to a people who continually provoke Me to My face,

Romans 1:
Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

The fool has said in his heart, there is no God.

While some atheists may have there eyes opened I tend to subscribe sometimes to this philosophy;
'Never argue with a fool, they will drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.'

These debates over creation by a creator vs the smug delusional attitude of some self acclaimed intellectually superior fool have lost their appeal to me. There were times I had fun with them, but I don't believe anyone's mind was changed. Or more importantly, their heart. I don't think appealing to scripture impresses those who hold it in distain.

Go with God

 

[Diamond7]

I understood that God made planet Earth on Day 3

The Bible (Genesis 1:1) clearly tells us God made the earth on Day one and science confirms this. He made the atmosphere on day two. The earth was still formless and void on day one. On the third day he created vegetation, which we need to create oxygen for the creatures he made on the fifth day. Then man or mammals came on the sixth day.

On the fourth day He created the Firmament of Heaven. So we can know days, weeks, months and years. We should follow the Bible calendar but we do not. We follow the Greek Calendar.

7549 [e]	בִּרְקִ֣יעַ bir-qî-a‘	in the firmament	Prep-b | N-msc
8064 [e]	הַשָּׁמַ֔יִם haš-šā-ma-yim,	of the heavens	Art | N-mp

 

[Diamond7]

God didn't see fit to give much but a cursory account of how exactly things were made

Science shows us what God is telling us in Genesis Chapter one. Even every book in the world would not be enough to show us what we know about what God (Jesus) did in Genesis Chapter One.

John 21 25 "Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written."

 

[Diamond7]

Titus 3:9 But avoid foolish controversies, arguments about genealogies, quarrels, and fights about the Law. These things are useless and worthless.

They are far from useless and worthless. The foolish controversies and arguments are useless and worthless. My son got himself into a situation where he had to read his biology book in three weeks. I told him to avoid the controversy. They need to read and study their biology book, not offer up opinios on a book they do not even bother to read.

 

[AlexB23]

Genesis 1:




From the above, I understood that God made planet Earth on Day 3 and the sun on Day 4. Accordingly, from the biblical witness-time perspective, the earth appeared before the sun.

On the other hand, from the modern-day astronomy space-time perspective, the sun existed before the earth was formed.

I see them both as true, depending on the time perspective.

See How old is the earth?.

Well, the Sun was made before the Earth. However, the Earth's atmosphere was opaque at first. Many years later, the atmosphere cleared up, allowing sunlight to reach the surface.

This is an article discussing Earth's early atmosphere: Earth’s Earliest Atmospheres


Here is the article's description on the opaque atmosphere:

According to the article, the Earth's early atmosphere was likely opaque at certain points in its development. Specifically, the authors mention that following the Moon-forming impact, the Earth was enveloped in a hot silicate vapor atmosphere for approximately 1000 years. During this time, the silicates would have rained out according to a condensation sequence, with the relatively volatile rock-forming elements such as sodium remaining in the atmosphere for a relatively long time. The atmospheric gases would have been primarily H2, CO, H2O, CO2, and N2, and the surface temperature would have been greater than 1500 K. Given the high temperatures and dense atmosphere, it is likely that visibility would have been severely limited, if not completely obscured, during this period.

Additionally, later in the Hadean era, the formation of a thick primordial CO2 atmosphere, coupled with a liquid water ocean and a basalt crust, would have made for an unstable environment. The CO2 would have reacted to make carbonates and been removed from the atmosphere, potentially causing the surface temperature to drop significantly and the oceans to become ice-covered. Again, in this scenario, the atmosphere would have been opaque due to the presence of ice crystals and water droplets.

Overall, it appears that the Earth's early atmosphere was indeed opaque at certain points in its development, particularly immediately following the Moon-forming impact and during periods of significant CO2 reduction.

Following the moon forming impact, a deep magma ocean formed on Earth and lasted for around 2 million years. After the magma ocean froze, a warm (~500 K) liquid water ocean formed under ~100 bars of CO2. The paper mentions that vigorous hydrothermal circulation through the oceanic crust and rapid mantle turnover could have moved 100 bars of CO2 from the atmosphere into the mantle in less than 10 million years.

Based on this information, we can infer that the atmosphere likely transitioned from opaque to transparent sometime after the magma ocean froze and before the majority of CO2 was sequestered into the mantle. This window of time would have been somewhere between 2 million and 10 million years after the Moon-forming impact. However, the exact timing of this transition is not specified.

 

[Diamond7]

This is an article discussing Earth's early atmosphere: Earth’s Earliest Atmospheres

Those people need to read their Bible. God created vegetation on the third day. Not the first or second day.

11Then God said, “Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds.” And it was so. 12The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. 13And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day.

 

[AlexB23]

Those people need to read their Bible. God created vegetation on the third day. Not the first or second day.

11Then God said, “Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds.” And it was so. 12The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. 13And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day.

Well, maybe scientists have not discovered vegetation that existed before the atmosphere cleared up. Cyanobacteria contain chlorophyll (found in modern vegetation), and existed billions of years ago, so maybe that is what the verse was referring to.

 

[Diamond7]

Well, maybe scientists have not discovered vegetation that existed before the atmosphere cleared up.

The point being made is that plants play a crucial role in the formation and maintenance of Earth's atmosphere. This is evident in geological evidence, particularly through observations of iron-rich minerals. At a certain point in Earth's history, iron minerals turned red due to the presence of oxygen. The reddish grains found within rocks are likely composed of iron oxides, such as hematite (Fe2O3), which is abundant in Earth's crust. Hematite is not only present in rocks but also in clay, a key component in brick production. This illustrates how the presence of oxygen, facilitated by plant life, has influenced geological processes and the composition of Earth's crust over time.

Plants play a crucial role in shaping and maintaining Earth's atmosphere through the process of photosynthesis and respiration:

 

[AlexB23]

The point being made is that plants play a crucial role in the formation and maintenance of Earth's atmosphere. This is evident in geological evidence, particularly through observations of iron-rich minerals. At a certain point in Earth's history, iron minerals turned red due to the presence of oxygen. The reddish grains found within rocks are likely composed of iron oxides, such as hematite (Fe2O3), which is abundant in Earth's crust. Hematite is not only present in rocks but also in clay, a key component in brick production. This illustrates how the presence of oxygen, facilitated by plant life, has influenced geological processes and the composition of Earth's crust over time.

Plants play a crucial role in shaping and maintaining Earth's atmosphere through the process of photosynthesis and respiration:
View attachment 345216

This sounds like the cyanobacteria, which produced oxygen during the early days of the Earth.