Dropping and Rolling on the Floor?

Alithis

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God bless you as well.

However, if indeed you were right in your claim that the entity in possession of my aunt was Jesus or a semblance of Jesus or approved by Jesus or Jesus in any way manner or form then I would want nothing to do with Jesus and would respectfully request that he stay away from me.
might i suggest a simple thing that seems to be so often overlooked ..(though not having read every post in this thread may have already been pointed out )
sometimes ,evil spirits which usually prefer to HIDE away deviously in the dark .. are made manifest when the presence of God shows up ..
so i suggest to you.. it was not the denomination ,nor thier actions, which caused your aunt to behave in a manner contrary to the word of god .. but simple a lying spirit which was hidden i her life ,being exposed .. and so it reacted by spewing out its lies .
ie - it began professing itself to be christ .. (many shall come in my name saying "i am the christ "} .. so based upon this scripture we know it was a lying spirit speaking through .
Thus all that was actually required is for someone to step up in discernment ment and say .."hey thats a lying spirit !.. and then command it to come out of her in the name of Jesus and she would be delivered of that horrid creature .(remember i am suggesting this to you ,not stating a fact pertaining to her case )

this is the great concern in modern charismatic movements.. so much goes on and no one discerns any more which spirit is what .
but what is of equal concern is to see something like that happen and then point the finger and say .."ouh the whole thing is wrong and of the devil" .. as that is to attribute the work of the holy Spirit (who makes known the truth and uncovers that true nature of the heart for the purpose of bringing conviction repentance deliverance and reconciliation to god ) to the devil , and that is far to close to blasphemy againt the holy Spirit for comfort .

we must be careful not to attribute everything to the devil when it may well have been becaeu of the presence of the Holy Spiirt that that evil spirit was made manifest .. the light of the Spirit of truth exposes the works of darkness ,so we can then pull down those works and deliver the person oppressed by them . this is the purpose for darkness being exposed . and the one reason those whose works are evil (and who love those works) avoid coming to the light of the lord Jesus in his word written read and preached

but if that discernment and consequential deliverance is not there .. then things get very blurred .
 
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RDKirk

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Where do the disciples pray in public?

Depends on what you mean by "public."

Jesus commends the tax collector who prayed aloud in the temple, and at the same time condemned the Pharisee praying aloud in the same venue. The issue wasn't where their feet were placed at the time of prayer, but the conditions of their hearts and the purposes of their prayers.

The same is true of His statement "And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others."

If a person thinks Jesus' point was all about the location of one's feet, one has missed His point.

There was certainly corporate prayer in the early church, such as:

On their release, Peter and John went back to their own people and reported all that the chief priests and the elders had said to them. When they heard this, they raised their voices together in prayer to God. Acts 4

This is corporate prayer. If by public prayer you mean prayer out among unbelievers (such as at a basketball game--those "secular" prayers that don't even include the name of Jesus), then I heartily agree that those are irrelevant and even sacrilegious.
 
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Radrook

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might i suggest a simple thing that seems to be so often overlooked ..(though not having read every post in this thread may have already been pointed out )
sometimes ,evil spirits which usually prefer to HIDE away deviously in the dark .. are made manifest when the presence of God shows up ..
so i suggest to you.. it was not the denomination ,nor thier actions, which caused your aunt to behave in a manner contrary to the word of god .. but simple a lying spirit which was hidden i her life ,being exposed .. and so it reacted by spewing out its lies .
ie - it began professing itself to be christ .. (many shall come in my name saying "i am the christ "} .. so based upon this scripture we know it was a lying spirit speaking through .
Thus all that was actually required is for someone to step up in discernment ment and say .."hey thats a lying spirit !.. and then command it to come out of her in the name of Jesus and she would be delivered of that horrid creature .(remember i am suggesting this to you ,not stating a fact pertaining to her case )

this is the great concern in modern charismatic movements.. so much goes on and no one discerns any more which spirit is what .
but what is of equal concern is to see something like that happen and then point the finger and say .."ouh the whole thing is wrong and of the devil" .. as that is to attribute the work of the holy Spirit (who makes known the truth and uncovers that true nature of the heart for the purpose of bringing conviction repentance deliverance and reconciliation to god ) to the devil , and that is far to close to blasphemy againt the holy Spirit for comfort .

we must be careful not to attribute everything to the devil when it may well have been becaeu of the presence of the Holy Spiirt that that evil spirit was made manifest .. the light of the Spirit of truth exposes the works of darkness ,so we can then pull down those works and deliver the person oppressed by them . this is the purpose for darkness being exposed . and the one reason those whose works are evil (and who love those works) avoid coming to the light of the lord Jesus in his word written read and preached

but if that discernment and consequential deliverance is not there .. then things get very blurred .


So your judgement is:

1. The voodoo-like comportment was really God's holy spirit exposing a demon

2. Inability to detect it as Holy Spirit exposing a demon is due to lack of discernment

3. Lack of discernment means that the person lacking it hasn't been delivered

3. Criticism of such behavior comes close to blasphemy against the holy spirit?

Very interesting conclusions!
 
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Radrook

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Let's not forget the animal noises, impulsively yelling out certain words all the time, emotionally erratic behavior (alternately laughing one moment, then crying a few seconds later, then back to laughing again). I've seen this stuff, and it not only gives me the creeps, but it makes it extremely difficult to communicate with those people.

Holy spirit exposing demons is one explanation that has been offered.
 
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Aldebaran

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Holy spirit exposing demons is one explanation that has been offered.

You mean the Holy Spirit in the person being given the creeps by those who are being influenced by demons (and think THEY are the ones who are influenced by the Holy Spirit while the ones who are given the creeps by it are simply resisting the Holy Spirit?)

I hope you were able to follow all that! I barely could myself. :wave:
 
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Alithis

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So your judgement is:

1. The voodoo-like comportment was really God's holy spirit exposing a demon

2. Inability to detect it as Holy Spirit exposing a demon is due to lack of discernment

3. Lack of discernment means that the person lacking it hasn't been delivered

3. Criticism of such behavior comes close to blasphemy against the holy spirit?

Very interesting conclusions!
lol i would not call them "conclusions" as i was suggesting a different view point (but from experience )

but
1. The voodoo-like comportment was really God's holy spirit exposing a demon - .. _A:_ umm not sure what the voodoo component is .. but a demon manifesting because the Holy Spirit is present ? yes ..this is a common occurrence.

2. Inability to detect it as Holy Spirit exposing a demon is due to lack of discernment--A: sure, why not ..or that is to say not discerning that it is a demon manifesting is a lack of discernment-but mostly becaseu it is not being TAUGHT i the congragations Anymore .

3. Lack of discernment means that the person lacking it hasn't been delivered- A: -no more a case of the answer to number 2 .. the operation of the gift of discernment id not being taught or practices

4. Criticism of such behavior comes close to blasphemy against the holy spirit?..A: no not taking a critical look at a situation .. but blandly making railing accusation about things we dont yet discern fully understand (ie- judging it from the carnal mind as opposed to listening to the Holy Spirit ) and attributing the power to the devil when it is actualy the power of god at work causing the demons to be exposed (for the purpose of driving the out -but sadly no one doing much driving out they are instead embracing the manifestation and the "feeling " ,which is sensuality and carnal and of the flesh . )
the pharisees said of jesus .. he drives out devils by the power of the devil.. it is theN that Jesus speaks againt blasphemy of the holy Spiirt .. because they were attributing the power ..to the devil ..it is not a coincidence that it's linked with that verse that the lord begins to warn against blasphemy of the holy Spirit .
 
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Alithis

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You mean the Holy Spirit in the person being given the creeps by those who are being influenced by demons (and think THEY are the ones who are influenced by the Holy Spirit while the ones who are given the creeps by it are simply resisting the Holy Spirit?)

I hope you were able to follow all that! I barely could myself. :wave:
yeahh umm ...nah ..haha can you reword that
 
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Radrook

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You mean the Holy Spirit in the person being given the creeps by those who are being influenced by demons (and think THEY are the ones who are influenced by the Holy Spirit while the ones who are given the creeps by it are simply resisting the Holy Spirit?)

I hope you were able to follow all that! I barely could myself. :wave:


Please explain why God would need anyone to help him drive out an evil spirit.

Also, why would he want it to manifest itself when there is no one around qualified to help him drive it out.

It wasn't a religious meeting where holy spirit was being poured forth.

So why do you conclude that it was somehow causally related to holy spirit?

Why isn't that assumption blasphemy?
 
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Alithis

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Please explain why God would need anyone to help him drive out an evil spirit.

Also, why would he want it to manifest itself when there is no one around qualified to help him drive it out.

It wasn't a religious meeting where holy spirit was being poured forth.

So why do you conclude that it was somehow causally related to holy spirit?

Why isn't that assumption blasphemy?
Why would god need any ones help to drive out a spirit?
May i addres just that bit bro ?

He doesnt.. But he chose To comission us to do so.it is simply obedience .
The lord Jesus said "i only do that which i see the father doing" -so when demobs were being stirred up from thier hiding nests.. The lord jesus saw what the father was doing and he drove them out of those nests.
He told Us..go ,heal the sick.cast out demons...etc.
He increases his kingdom in us..through us .. :)
 
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Aldebaran

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Please explain why God would need anyone to help him drive out an evil spirit.

Also, why would he want it to manifest itself when there is no one around qualified to help him drive it out.

It wasn't a religious meeting where holy spirit was being poured forth.

So why do you conclude that it was somehow causally related to holy spirit?

Why isn't that assumption blasphemy?

I'm not sure how you read my post, but what I was saying is that in these church meetings, I saw these so-called spiritual manifistations that the people there attributed to the Holy Spirit. However, these manifistations gave me the creeps. So my question was: Was it the Holy Spirit in me that was telling me this is wrong, and that those showing manifistations are the ones who are influenced by something other than the Holy Spirit? OR, were the people manifesting the ones who had the Holy Spirit, and it was actually ME who had the demon, which is why I felt creeped out?
 
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Goatee

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I'm not sure how you read my post, but what I was saying is that in these church meetings, I saw these so-called spiritual manifistations that the people there attributed to the Holy Spirit. However, these manifistations gave me the creeps. So my question was: Was it the Holy Spirit in me that was telling me this is wrong, and that those showing manifistations are the ones who are influenced by something other than the Holy Spirit? OR, were the people manifesting the ones who had the Holy Spirit, and it was actually ME who had the demon, which is why I felt creeped out?

I think that you were being told that what you saw was not of God!
 
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Radrook

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I'm not sure how you read my post, but what I was saying is that in these church meetings, I saw these so-called spiritual manifistations that the people there attributed to the Holy Spirit. However, these manifistations gave me the creeps. So my question was: Was it the Holy Spirit in me that was telling me this is wrong, and that those showing manifistations are the ones who are influenced by something other than the Holy Spirit? OR, were the people manifesting the ones who had the Holy Spirit, and it was actually ME who had the demon, which is why I felt creeped out?


Sorry! My response was meant for the person who claimed that holy spirit is often accompanied by a demon being exposed in order for someone present to cast it out. Your post I understood perfectly. Will be more careful in posting next time.
 
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Radrook

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Why would god need any ones help to drive out a spirit?
May i addres just that bit bro ?

He doesnt.. But he chose To comission us to do so.it is simply obedience .
The lord Jesus said "i only do that which i see the father doing" -so when demobs were being stirred up from thier hiding nests.. The lord jesus saw what the father was doing and he drove them out of those nests.
He told Us..go ,heal the sick.cast out demons...etc.
He increases his kingdom in us..through us .. :)

But if there is nobody present who qualifies to do such a thing-what is the point?
Also, what scripture supports the idea that Holy spirit elicits the manifestation of demons?

I was taught to associate the holy spirit with these following manifestations:

Galatians 5:22-23 (NIV)
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

So I find the idea you mention odd.
 
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Alithis

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Sorry! My response was meant for the person who claimed that holy spirit is often accompanied by a demon being exposed in order for someone present to cast it out. Your post I understood perfectly. Will be more careful in posting next time.
umm in order for the demon to be cast out..not the person ...
 
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Radrook

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when do demons manifest the most ? when they are confronted with the light of true and thus exposed...
and when they do..we are commissioned to drive them out and set the oppressed person free.

Jesus is the only one I expect to show up when I gather with others for worship:

Matthew 18:20King James Version (KJV)
20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

So I guess we simply have different expectations.

What I think you are referring to is those meetings where supposedly demonized person's are taken before the congregation and the minister attempts to cast the demon out. I don't think that you are referring to the people who are church members and are rolling and trembling and making sounds prior to that part.

BTW
I don't mean to sound disrespectful of your faith or judging your sincerity in any way. I'm sure you are very sincere and that your effort to please God has great value in His eyes.
 
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Alithis

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Jesus is the only one I expect to show up when I gather with others for worship:



So I guess we simply have different expectations.

What I think you are referring to is those meetings where supposedly demonized person's are taken before the congregation and the minister attempts to cast the demon out. I don't think that you are referring to the people who are church members and are rolling and trembling and making sounds prior to that part.

BTW
I don't mean to sound disrespectful of your faith or judging your sincerity in any way. I'm sure you are very sincere and that your effort to please God has great value in His eyes.
its not a mattef of ddmons shoeing up..they ate in peoples lives already.but theyhide.but they cant hide ftom god.. i may reply in full later.this phones to small...
 
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Radrook

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its not a matte of demons showing up..they are in peoples lives already but they hide. But they cant hide from God.. i may reply in full later. This phones to small...

Thanks for the feedback.
God bless!
 
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Alithis

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Thanks for the feedback.
God bless!
well your welcome .. and im enjoying the conversation ,though it must always be seasoned with the salt of the truth of the word of god of course .

i feel you may have misunderstood some of what i'v been saying (happens all the time ). its a weakness on my part in failing to communicate what it is im saying well enough for it to be understood how i intended it to be understood .

let me use a simple word picture ..

lets say we have darkish hall .. and many are meeting in that darkish hall and there are a few with candles and have a soft positive glow of light with them ,others a more hidden light , others a smoldering wick with less then the hint of a spark and still others with no light at all .. but there is enough light in the room so we can see to walk about and feel comfortable enough (but there are many shadows in darkness)
when a person is near the persons with a good candle light they smile and all is sweetness ..while others prefer to ease away from those holding a beter candle light ,a little uncomfortable with what that light may expose if used on close inspection ...

then .. into the room comes one holding an 11,000 watt flood light ( let's call him the Holy Spirit ) and you can work out the rest of the scenario as soon as i said that haha ;)

There is an instant change ..ouh that all seeing all searching LIGHT .. rats hiding in the corner scurry and scatter ,cockroaches skittering frantically everywhere .that demon of inappropriate content in that guys heart over there squirms about trying to avoid that all exposing light ..& that lady over there ,such a lovely lady .reads new age books and has crystals at home and her spirit guide demon starts flipping its lid and saying ridiculous and blasphemous things ..

You see thats the point .. the lord does not "bring the evil spook .. he exposes what is already in the hearts .

THEN ..back to the topic .. we have this sort of thing happening and we get people stand back and say ouh look that person is being wonderfully "touched ".. but are they ..or is it simply a demon manifesting that needs to be driven out ?
--
this is another overlooked point .. we must NEVER assume a person who got "slain in the Spirit : -ie they fell down .. is saved . a person can go up for prayer ,fall down get up again .. go home and not know Christ , have not acknowledged him as lord and obeyed him in water baptism and have not been raised up again into his resurrection .
in scripture there is only one physical manifestation which was used to determine whether or not a spirit had received the Holy Ghost -and that was tongues . but all another topic for another day .
 
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