Dropping and Rolling on the Floor?

[TheDag]

The usual explanation for the "slain in the spirit" phenomenon is that Saul was knocked from his horse by the Lord while on the road to Damascus. Why this should be transferrable to any other believer is not so well explained, IMHO, and the 'rolling around' stuff I think is just part and parcel of whatever one thinks is the way the Holy Spirit comes upon the believer. It's supposed to take you over, so....

however it is also just as legitimate to ask why it wouldn't be transferred to others. Your expectation that it ust be justified why it would be transferrable shows that you are starting from a bias.

 

[TheDag]

You are labelled Christian under your avatar! How can you say the above?

I'm sorry that you are unable to see what your post actually means. You kept repeating the verse about praying in private. Well Jesus prayed in public at times which means according to your continued insistence that praying in private is the only way then Jesus must have been sinful. There is no other conclusion one can make unless you acknowledge you are wrong in your understanding.

 

[TheDag]

I'm still waiting for a biblical defense of this strange behavior. I have read none in my Bible, and I've never seen this type of thing in any of the numerous churches I've attended in over 30 years.

This sounds just like a person who condemned speaking in tongues on the basis that they had never experienced it so therefore it must not be of God! Once we start judging behaviour by if we have seen or experienced it then we start setting ourselves up as being perfect example of what a christian should and shouldn't be then we are in grave danger of falling.

In terms of the biblical defence as I said earlier one can not condemn it unless one reads certain passages with a pre-formed opinion. Of course using some of the passages especially from ezekial to support it requires people to have a pre-formed opinion as well.

 

[Albion]

however it is also just as legitimate to ask why it wouldn't be transferred to others.

It is fair to ask that, but what reason could there be for thinking that God confronted Saul in this emphatic way....therefore all Christians ought to think they can, by imitating the action, be part of it?

What's more, those who are "slain in the spirit" aren't replicating anything but the action of falling down anyway! There's no suggestion that they are, by doing this, being commissioned through it to be the same as Paul.

 

[TheDag]

Absolutely! i agree 100%. There are many things that the different denominations do which seem to either lack scriptural support or else go completely contrary to scripture.

However, the majority of Christian places of worship don't have members hissing, ululating, growling, shouting, violently trembling, dropping to the floor, rolling down the isles nor claiming to be the Lord Jesus or some other biblical personage while mimicking the bodily movements of voodoo practitioners.

So when confronted with such an horrendously unbiblical display, I can't help but to suspect something ungodly at work.

As I said people can imitate and fake things. So just because someone does something which seems wrong does not make it justifiable to make a blanket condemnation like you are. In the specific case of your aunt I wasn't there but I find it hard to imagine it would have been of God.

That you don't find it in the majority of churches means nothing really. All kinds of explanations could be offered. I grew up in a church where while the Holy Spirit was mentioned one did not talk about the spirit. The spirit was essentially denied. When I did start visiting some more charismatic/pentecostal churches and anything during the service was foreign to me and strange I would just start praying.

It seems as if you have made up your mind and you approach the topic from a closed position rather than wanting to see what is and is not said. This is no different of course to the way some pentecostal people appraoch it of course however it does not assist to learn the truth. Does the bible talk about the spirit groaning and uttering in a language we can't understand? Yes it does. Is it possible that is part of what is happening? Yes of course. Is it possible for people to fake that? Of course. Tony Campolo tells a good story of a person standing up in a church and speaking in a unnaturally low tone and saying "As Moses led the animals two by two onto the ark" Of course people noticed she said Moses not Noah. A friend of mine tells how he was being prayed for and people insisted he should be able to speak in tongues and eventually just to please them he uttered some garbage and they got all excited. So yes it can be faked but then I have been in churches where tongues have been spoken and then there has been interpretation (yep the biblical way of doing it!) It was clear the message was legit.

Anyway gotta rush now so will come back and read rest of thread later.

 

[Albion]

In terms of the biblical defence as I said earlier one can not condemn it unless one reads certain passages with a pre-formed opinion.

It's more accurate to say that one cannot affirm it unless one reads certain passages with a pre-formed opinion.

 

[TheDag]

Yes.

Many of the parables and miracles had the same aim. Jesus was bringing judgement on Israel for not being good stewards or a light to the world, and He was ushering in the gentiles. No longer would the Jews have an exclusive deal. . .

might need to clarify this. I would say they never did have an exclusive deal. Perhaps by being brief I have misunderstood what you mean.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

It's more accurate to say that one cannot affirm it unless one reads certain passages with a pre-formed opinion.

Amen to that. We are all waiting, from the OP until now, for scriptural backing for this behavior, but all we've heard is this:

 

[Radrook]

As I said people can imitate and fake things. So just because someone does something which seems wrong does not make it justifiable to make a blanket condemnation like you are. In the specific case of your aunt I wasn't there but I find it hard to imagine it would have been of God.

That you don't find it in the majority of churches means nothing really. All kinds of explanations could be offered. I grew up in a church where while the Holy Spirit was mentioned one did not talk about the spirit. The spirit was essentially denied. When I did start visiting some more charismatic/pentecostal churches and anything during the service was foreign to me and strange I would just start praying.

It seems as if you have made up your mind and you approach the topic from a closed position rather than wanting to see what is and is not said. This is no different of course to the way some pentecostal people appraoch it of course however it does not assist to learn the truth. Does the bible talk about the spirit groaning and uttering in a language we can't understand? Yes it does. Is it possible that is part of what is happening? Yes of course. Is it possible for people to fake that? Of course. Tony Campolo tells a good story of a person standing up in a church and speaking in a unnaturally low tone and saying "As Moses led the animals two by two onto the ark" Of course people noticed she said Moses not Noah. A friend of mine tells how he was being prayed for and people insisted he should be able to speak in tongues and eventually just to please them he uttered some garbage and they got all excited. So yes it can be faked but then I have been in churches where tongues have been spoken and then there has been interpretation (yep the biblical way of doing it!) It was clear the message was legit.

Anyway gotta rush now so will come back and read rest of thread later.

I am not judging individual member's who suddenly drop and roll on the floor, slowly rise showing only the white of their eyes while producing garbled sounds and then claiming to be Jesus and saying that the holy spirit is forcing them to do it. Each person stands or falls before God after God judges them-not me. As for recommending such places or attending them myself? Thanks but no thanks. Resembled an insane asylum too much.

BTW
There is a big difference between not understanding what is going on and deciding to pray for understanding and feeling as if you might be attacked at any moment by someone under the influence of the force which is claimed to be holy spirit but which to you resembles just the exact opposite.

 

[seashale76]

Dropping, rolling on the floor, slain in the spirit, falling out in the spirit… Where is any of that mentioned/strongly implied in the scriptures? It's somewhat rhetorical because I know there are no such scriptures advocating for such things.

 

[random person]

i am cessationist. the perfect came upon completion of the scriptures.

i have relatives that are charismatic affiliated.

the services are chaotic not orderly. prophecying is little more than words of encouragement with little or nothing to do with genuine prophecy that should be logged and tried according to deuteronomy 18:22. remember the prophets and apostles recorded their prophecies and visions in letter.

false prophets were rampant in both testaments.

and tongues are pure gibberish lets permit linguists to translate for us. the services can be very physical causing its participants to experience "runners high" an mind altering natural high that is usually accompanied with tinglying sensations and light headedness and warmth etc whereby they believe they've had their sunday's worth of the outpouring of the holy spirit.

 

[Goatee]

I'm sorry that you are unable to see what your post actually means. You kept repeating the verse about praying in private. Well Jesus prayed in public at times which means according to your continued insistence that praying in private is the only way then Jesus must have been sinful. There is no other conclusion one can make unless you acknowledge you are wrong in your understanding.

If you can understand that verse its how Jesus is saying dont go showing everyone else how you pray, how you want people to notice you! This is exactly how those other people look when they throw themselves about! All false and just for show.

Jesus is Our Lord and teacher. Nobody is above him on this earth. He can do anything he wants!

You should not have called Jesus the way you did.

 

[DamianWarS]

Eucharist is Biblically based:

Mark 14:22-24
22 And as they were eating, he took bread, and blessed, and broke it, and gave it to them, and said, “Take; this is my body.” 23 And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks he gave it to them, and they all drank of it. 24 And he said to them, “This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many.

Luke 22:19-20
19 And he took bread, and when he had given thanks he broke it and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body which is given for you. Do this in remembrance of me.” 20 And likewise the cup after supper, saying, “This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood.

John 6:51
51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven; if any one eats of this bread, he will live for ever; and the bread which I shall give for the life of the world is my flesh.”

John 6:53
53 So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you;

1 Corinthians 10:16
16 The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not a participation in the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ?

And this is exactly what I'm talking about. People post a tonne of scripture about their cause which does not address the topic specifically. This is then used as a platform to validate all the unbiblical stuff that rests on it. The reasoning is because the foundation is strong everything that rests on the foundation is also strong.

In the case of the Eucharist aka The Lord's Supper it has a strong foundation and is very biblically based. But in the case of the ceremony of the Eucharist (which is what I brought up) it is not biblically based it is traditionally based and at best biblically themed. The Lord's Supper is inherently very simple but the pomp and ceremony around it today has distorted it and the "folk" side will come out; people will look to the ceremony over Jesus regardless what the doctrine states like the bronze snake in exodus.

In the case of being baptized in the spirit it is also very biblically based and there is strong support for its continued practice despite how people ignore the subject today. But the many "in the spirit" actions that people claim is biblical is in fact not and is only trying to use the foundation to support all the other stuff. Ananias and Sapphira are the only ones who were slain in the spirit biblically speaking and no one is rolling around or laughing or staggering around like they are drunk. We can't make it up as we go along and just because there was an experience in a church with other people does not mean it was from God The enemy will use these fleshly experiences to defraud the work of the hs today and people will be blinded by the foolishness surrounding it.

 

[TheDag]

Thanks for providing the scriptures used to support that belief.
All describe a fearful reaction.

In the case of Paul we can assume it was fear as well. We can also assume they were conscious since they were spoken to and understood.

None describe rolling all over the floor while uttering unintelligible noises, and then claiming to be Jesus.

So to me these scriptures don't seem to support the behavior I observed.

God Bless!

Peter being in a trance would be identical to what many do. As I said before you are taking what appears to be one person faking something and making assumptions. Do I say that because some people who have pretended to be christian have read the bible means that reading the bible is wrong? Of course not. Likewise this should not be dismissed in that way.

 

[TheDag]

If you can understand that verse its how Jesus is saying dont go showing everyone else how you pray, how you want people to notice you! This is exactly how those other people look when they throw themselves about! All false and just for show.

Jesus is Our Lord and teacher. Nobody is above him on this earth. He can do anything he wants!

You should not have called Jesus the way you did.

It was not me calling him that but you by your lack of understanding. The disciples prayed in public as well. So clearly there is no blanket ban on praying in public as you claimed.

Why is it that these people fall about only in 'that' church? Reason, i dont believe it is the Holy Spirit. It is something else!!!!

Simple. It doesn't only happen in that church. That makes the rest of your post a false accusation. I have seen this stuff in non-pentecostal churches so sorry to burst your little bubble.

 

[Radrook]

Peter being in a trance would be identical to what many do. As I said before you are taking what appears to be one person faking something and making assumptions. Do I say that because some people who have pretended to be christian have read the bible means that reading the bible is wrong? Of course not. Likewise this should not be dismissed in that way.

To be honest, I see no other way to dismiss it.

Faking? How can you fake becoming as white as a ghost and breaking out in sweat and the producing an unnatural male voice? Do the voodoo people fake what they do? Doesn't seem like it to me. But if you prefer to think it was faked that is your right to an opinion.

Identical?

Peter acted identical to the people in the King Kong film excerpt that he added the furiously rolling around on the ground?

Please show me where Peter became drenched in sweat, began suddenly trembling, dropped to the ground, started rolling on the floor, making garbled sounds, showed only the white of his eyes, and acted like those people in the King Kong film.

BTW
It isn't only one person. They began behaving that way in church. Go on the internet and you can see them doing the same things during their meetings. What would a psychiatrist say about that behavior? Better yet, what would Jesus say?

 

[Aldebaran]

Dropping, rolling on the floor, slain in the spirit, falling out in the spirit… Where is any of that mentioned/strongly implied in the scriptures? It's somewhat rhetorical because I know there are no such scriptures advocating for such things.

Let's not forget the animal noises, impulsively yelling out certain words all the time, emotionally erratic behavior (alternately laughing one moment, then crying a few seconds later, then back to laughing again). I've seen this stuff, and it not only gives me the creeps, but it makes it extremely difficult to communicate with those people.

 

[Goatee]

It was not me calling him that but you by your lack of understanding. The disciples prayed in public as well. So clearly there is no blanket ban on praying in public as you claimed.


Simple. It doesn't only happen in that church. That makes the rest of your post a false accusation. I have seen this stuff in non-pentecostal churches so sorry to burst your little bubble.

Look at what you wrote dear friend.

Whatever denomination this happens in it is not, as far as i am concerned, the Holy Spirit at work. Look at Our Lords works and teachings and you will understand this.

 

[prodromos]

The disciples prayed in public as well. So clearly there is no blanket ban on praying in public as you claimed.

Where do the disciples pray in public?

 

[Alithis]

The preacher said the dog had died and came back to life.

?? that is resurrection.. Not reincarnation .

Gues we would have to hear that sermon to know what the reference actually meant