Dropping and Rolling on the Floor?

[random person]

There does seem to be similarity. Have you seen this video?

yes that is a great video.

remove all christian identity from these charismatic practices and what have we left?

spazzed-out demoniacs i dare say?

 

[jimmyjimmy]

But these ARE explanations that have been given--very standard ones--by those particular Christian groups. That's not to say that we have to be persuaded by them. However, these verses are about the "slain in the spirit" idea. Why it might be appropriate to twitch or roll around on the floor could be a separate issue, I suppose.

I understand. I know that you do not practice this, but were simply trying to put forth their standard arguments.

 

[Goatee]

yes that is a great video.

remove all christian identity from these charismatic practices and what have we left?

spazzed-out demoniacs i dare say?

Agreed. They are obviously possessed.

 

[RDKirk]

Agreed. They are obviously possessed.

No, they aren't demon-possessed. That's a terrible thing and not lightly mentioned.

But they are in error about how the Holy Spirit operates and are operating out of their own flesh.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

No, they aren't demon-possessed. That's a terrible thing and not lightly mentioned.

But they are in error about how the Holy Spirit operates and are operating out of their own flesh.

How are they in error? Some scriptural backing would be helpful.

 

[Goatee]

No, they aren't demon-possessed. That's a terrible thing and not lightly mentioned.

But they are in error about how the Holy Spirit operates and are operating out of their own flesh.

Well, it looks demonic to me.

 

[Radrook]

To give a more complete answer, I should have been clear that there appear to me to be various explanations that Pentecostal and Charismatic Christians who accept the idea of being "slain in the spirit" hold to. Included are these--

• Jesus said to them, “I am He.” And Judas, who betrayed Him, also stood with them. Then when He said to them. “I am He,” – they drew back and fell to the ground.” (John 18:6)

• “And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. But He laid His right hand on me, saying to me, “Do not be afraid; I am the First and the Last.” (Revelation 1:17)

• “And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their faces and were greatly afraid.” But Jesus came and touched them and said, “Arise, and do not be afraid.” (Matthew 17:6

But the one that seems to have had given to me most often would be this one--

• “And as he journeyed he came near Damascus, and suddenly a light shone around him from heaven. Then he fell to the ground, and heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?” (Acts 9:3-4)

Thanks for providing the scriptures used to support that belief.
All describe a fearful reaction.

In the case of Paul we can assume it was fear as well. We can also assume they were conscious since they were spoken to and understood.

None describe rolling all over the floor while uttering unintelligible noises, and then claiming to be Jesus.

So to me these scriptures don't seem to support the behavior I observed.

God Bless!

 

[DamianWarS]

Pentecostals tend to validate a lot of things by biblically themed expressions of the holy spirit. A prime example of this is being slained in the spirit. This is not a biblical manifestation of the hs but it sounds biblical and so gets wide approval in pentecostal circles many not even knowing it isn't biblical or quote cut and paste verses to support its use. They will also just add "in the spirit" after a verb and somehow this affirms it.

This is actually common practice in the church and many things we do are just biblically themed but not actually biblical and people don't know the difference. Talk to people about the ceremony behind the Eucharist and many will say it is biblically based. I have even seen full youtube videos on proof it is biblically based but this is false. The ceremony is not biblically based it is biblically themed like a cut and paste of scriptures from revelation.

In the case of pentecostals some poor examples have caused focus on misguided truth largely putting experience over scripture. This is wrong and have led many down the wrong path. But contrary to popular belief these non biblical focuses are typically rejected by main stream pentecostal churches.

Pentecostals, like many Christians, have a "folk" side they just concentrate that on the hs and it draws a lot of negative attention. Kinda like saying people worship Mary, doctrinaly this is rejected but the "folk" side still happens. People associate the movement as "culty" and discount the whole of it but classical pentecostalism is firmly based on biblical accounts that most Christians tend to sweep under the rug and ignore. Posts like these tend to affirm people's positions but I challenge people to look at the core of pentecostalism and you will find it is very biblical and well supported.

 

[Radrook]

Pentecostals tend to validate a lot of things by biblically themed expressions of the holy spirit. A prime example of this is being slained in the spirit. This is not a biblical manifestation of the hs but it sounds biblical and so gets wide approval in pentecostal circles many not even knowing it isn't biblical or quote cut and paste verses to support its use. They will also just add "in the spirit" after a verb and somehow this affirms it.

This is actually common practice in the church and many things we do are just biblically themed but not actually biblical and people don't know the difference. Talk to people about the ceremony behind the Eucharist and many will say it is biblically based. I have even seen full youtube videos on proof it is biblically based but this is false. The ceremony is not biblically based it is biblically themed like a cut and paste of scriptures from revelation.

In the case of pentecostals some poor examples have caused focus on misguided truth largely putting experience over scripture. This is wrong and have led many down the wrong path. But contrary to popular belief these non biblical focuses are typically rejected by main stream pentecostal churches.

Pentecostals, like many Christians, have a "folk" side they just concentrate that on the hs and it draws a lot of negative attention. Kinda like saying people worship Mary, doctrinaly this is rejected but the "folk" side still happens. People associate the movement as "culty" and discount the whole of it but classical pentecostalism is firmly based on biblical accounts that most Christians tend to sweep under the rug and ignore. Posts like these tend to affirm people's positions but I challenge people to look at the core of pentecostalism and you will find it is very biblical and well supported.

Thanks for the information.

My apologies if I gave an erroneous impression of what constitutes Pentecostalism.
As I explained, my initial memory of Pentecostals isn't one of being harassed or in any other way being intimidated or of observing people claiming to be biblical personages. My initial experiences as a child were those of people singing, praying, listening to sermons. Then my second experience involved the same albeit with some folks making sounds which they claimed were tongues given by the Holy Spirit and perhaps falling to the floor and rolling.

So I did not come away with any negative opinion on those occasions. However, when I visited my aunt I encountered what I described and when i went to her church and observed the same initial manifestations I felt extremely threatened. Should I have shared that experience here?
Now that you mention the possibility of misrepresentation of Pentecostalism I am not sure.

 

[Goatee]

Eucharist is Biblically based:

Mark 14:22-24
22 And as they were eating, he took bread, and blessed, and broke it, and gave it to them, and said, “Take; this is my body.” 23 And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks he gave it to them, and they all drank of it. 24 And he said to them, “This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many.

Luke 22:19-20
19 And he took bread, and when he had given thanks he broke it and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body which is given for you. Do this in remembrance of me.” 20 And likewise the cup after supper, saying, “This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood.

John 6:51
51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven; if any one eats of this bread, he will live for ever; and the bread which I shall give for the life of the world is my flesh.”

John 6:53
53 So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you;

1 Corinthians 10:16
16 The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not a participation in the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ?

 

[Albion]

Sure, the Lord's Supper is "Biblically-based." We have the Gospel record in Mark and Luke to inform us that Christ did have his Last Supper with his Apostles and said what we all know that he said. What he meant is not so easily answered, however.

 

[Aldebaran]

No, they aren't demon-possessed. That's a terrible thing and not lightly mentioned.

But they are in error about how the Holy Spirit operates and are operating out of their own flesh.

This is one of those areas where it seems we have to tread lightly. Saying that they are demon-possessed is so similar to what the unbelievers said to Jesus and He responded about blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. But what do we say when people do things that in no way represent us to God, and yet they specifically claim that it's the Holy Spirit that is in them and making them do these things?

 

[RDKirk]

This is one of those areas where it seems we have to tread lightly. Saying that they are demon-possessed is so similar to what the unbelievers said to Jesus and He responded about blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. But what do we say when people do things that in no way represent us to God, and yet they specifically claim that it's the Holy Spirit that is in them and making them do these things?

By examining the results of their actions compared to the results of the work of the Holy Spirit in scripture. For instance, even in the circumstances anyone ever "fell down" by the hand of the Holy Spirit...does scripture record it ever happening to anyone twice? Notice that from Paul's instructions to the Corinthians, every alleged action of the Holy Spirit--tongues, prophesy, whatever--required validation by two or three persons.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

The Holy Spirit always brings order out of chaos, not the other way around.

 

[seashale76]

The Holy Spirit always brings order out of chaos, not the other way around.

Simply put and 100% on target.

 

[Goatee]

Why is it that these people fall about only in 'that' church? Reason, i dont believe it is the Holy Spirit. It is something else!!!!

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Why is it that these people fall about only in 'that' church? Reason, i dont believe it is the Holy Spirit. It is something else!!!!

They would claim just the opposite. They would say that our churches are devoid of God's Spirit, and their evidence would be that no one is rolling around on the floor, jumping up and down, etc.

They say that this rolling around stuff is evidence of God's Spirit working, and we would say differently. Who is right?

 

[Goatee]

They would claim just the opposite. They would say that our churches are devoid of God's Spirit, and their evidence would be that no one is rolling around on the floor, jumping up and down, etc.

They say that this rolling around stuff is evidence of God's Spirit working, and we would say differently. Who is right?

In the days when Our Lord walked the earth, if he came across someone acting like them he would cast the evil spirit from them and into pigs! This is what i believe.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

In the days when Our Lord walked the earth, if he came across someone acting like them he would cast the evil spirit from them and into pigs! This is what i believe.

I'm not saying that you are wrong, believe me; however, can you prove it?

 

[Goatee]

I'm not saying that you are wrong, believe me; however, can you prove it?

Obviously not.