Dropping and Rolling on the Floor?

[TheDag]

Matthew 6:6
6 But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you.

No need to go throwing yourself all over the floor etc!

Yeah how sinful was that Jesus bloke for praying in public occasionly!

 

[Goatee]

Yeah how sinful was that Jesus bloke for praying in public occasionly!

You are labelled Christian under your avatar! How can you say the above?

 

[jimmyjimmy]

I'm still waiting for a biblical defense of this strange behavior. I have read none in my Bible, and I've never seen this type of thing in any of the numerous churches I've attended in over 30 years.

 

[Flowful]

That's the impression I got as an 11 year old when I first saw my aunt going through those motions. She claimed to be Jesus and and admonishing me but I sensed something horribly wrong with claim so I bolted out the door as if running for my life. I still can't find scriptural support for it. I can't recall anyone at the Pentecostal Church we first attended doing that in that macabre exact way in which she did it. The closest I can compare it with is that scene in the film King Kong when those people were about to sacrifice the woman lighting fires and beating drums.

It is not far away to say she is Jesus Christ in my opinion. When you are reborn, you accept Jesus Christ as your savior or "in your heart", your spirit gets reborn. When I go deep into spirit “God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.” I kind of felt like Jesus is inside of me.

One time I felt that my reborn friend is Jesus. That is kind of who you really are in your spirit; identical to Jesus Christ. When you see your friend Matt or Mark who is reborn, think of them as Jesus Christ, it will change completely how you act around them. "35For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in; 36naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me."


Hebrews 10:10-12, 14 says,

“By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ

once for all. And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified,” (emphasis mine).

This is not talking about your physical body or your soul; it’s talking about your born-again spirit. Your spirit is identical to the Lord Jesus Christ. It is sinless! Your soul and your body can be defiled by sin, but your spirit never can; it’s sealed forever."
From: http://www.awmi.net/reading/teaching-articles/jesus_enough/


Matthew 9:17 reads,

“Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.”

The New Covenant is like new wine. It is meant to be placed in a new container. And you are that new container. In your spirit, when you were born again, you became a totally brand-new creation, created in righteousness and true holiness (Eph. 4:24). First John 4:17 says that you are identical to Jesus in your spirit: “As he is, so are we in this world.”
From: http://www.awmi.net/reading/teaching-articles/hebrews_highlights/

1 Corinthians 6:17 (NIV)
17 But whoever is united with the Lord is one with him in spirit.


"She claimed to be Jesus and and admonishing me but I sensed something horribly wrong with claim so I bolted out the door as if running for my life. I still can't find scriptural support for it."

There you have it. That is who you really are; identical to Jesus Christ as long as you are reborn in the spirit.

I dont think there is anything "wrong" in dropping on the floor from the power of God either. I've had uncontrollable shakes when Spirit possessed me. I have seen people dancing and it looked like they couldn't stop it, they were so happy. I have seen people dropping on the floor and I felt God's Spirit moving at that same convention, I cried and He asked me "Do you believe now?". We are pretty small and strenghtless compared to God after all...


God bless you

 

[Albion]

I'm still waiting for a biblical defense of this strange behavior. I have read none in my Bible, and I've never seen this type of thing in any of the numerous churches I've attended in over 30 years.

The usual explanation for the "slain in the spirit" phenomenon is that Saul was knocked from his horse by the Lord while on the road to Damascus. Why this should be transferrable to any other believer is not so well explained, IMHO, and the 'rolling around' stuff I think is just part and parcel of whatever one thinks is the way the Holy Spirit comes upon the believer. It's supposed to take you over, so....

 

[Goatee]

Dare i say it but could it also be the person being possessed by not nice spirits!

 

[Albion]

...just as it might be not nice spirits responding when people say that they prayed to this or that saint for a certain favor and got a reply.

 

[Goatee]

...just as it might be not nice spirits responding when people say that they prayed to this or that saint for a certain favor and got a reply.

I agree. One has to test the spirits as in:

1 John 4:1
4 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are of God; for many false prophets have gone out into the world.

 

[Radrook]

It is not far away to say she is Jesus Christ in my opinion. When you are reborn, you accept Jesus Christ as your savior or "in your heart", your spirit gets reborn. When I go deep into spirit “God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.” I kind of felt like Jesus is inside of me.

One time I felt that my reborn friend is Jesus. That is kind of who you really are in your spirit; identical to Jesus Christ. When you see your friend Matt or Mark who is reborn, think of them as Jesus Christ, it will change completely how you act around them. "35For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in; 36naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me."


Hebrews 10:10-12, 14 says,

“By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ

once for all. And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified,” (emphasis mine).

This is not talking about your physical body or your soul; it’s talking about your born-again spirit. Your spirit is identical to the Lord Jesus Christ. It is sinless! Your soul and your body can be defiled by sin, but your spirit never can; it’s sealed forever."
From: http://www.awmi.net/reading/teaching-articles/jesus_enough/


Matthew 9:17 reads,

“Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.”

The New Covenant is like new wine. It is meant to be placed in a new container. And you are that new container. In your spirit, when you were born again, you became a totally brand-new creation, created in righteousness and true holiness (Eph. 4:24). First John 4:17 says that you are identical to Jesus in your spirit: “As he is, so are we in this world.”
From: http://www.awmi.net/reading/teaching-articles/hebrews_highlights/

1 Corinthians 6:17 (NIV)
17 But whoever is united with the Lord is one with him in spirit.


"She claimed to be Jesus and and admonishing me but I sensed something horribly wrong with claim so I bolted out the door as if running for my life. I still can't find scriptural support for it."

There you have it. That is who you really are; identical to Jesus Christ as long as you are reborn in the spirit.

I dont think there is anything "wrong" in dropping on the floor from the power of God either. I've had uncontrollable shakes when Spirit possessed me. I have seen people dancing and it looked like they couldn't stop it, they were so happy. I have seen people dropping on the floor and I felt God's Spirit moving at that same convention, I cried and He asked me "Do you believe now?". We are pretty small and strenghtless compared to God after all...


God bless you

God bless you as well.

However, if indeed you were right in your claim that the entity in possession of my aunt was Jesus or a semblance of Jesus or approved by Jesus or Jesus in any way manner or form then I would want nothing to do with Jesus and would respectfully request that he stay away from me.

 

[Radrook]

Lets look at this from a different perspective. look at many churches and what they do and show me the biblical support for their actions. Especially in catholic & orthodox churches. I grew up in the lutheran church and can say the same about them.

In regards to some of the passages used as support I would say that if one was to look at them without a pre-formed opinion then they could not make a definite statement either way. So that means those who say it definitely does not suppport it are just as wrong as those who say it does support it.

In terms of being slain in the spirit I will say it has never happened to me. I am convinced it can be of God. Does that mean it can't be faked? Of course not. Just like many legitimate things of God can be faked. At the end of the day there are clear examples of God communicating with people when they are in a trance like state. I would also say it does happen without anyone touching the person so it can not always be dismissed as being pushed or the like.

As to anyone who claims to be a biblical figure when this happens I would be more than happy to say that is straight up faking or worse. I am not going to say demon possession as that is a serious accusation to make and really should not be made lightly.

I am a cynical kind of person. Several times I have had friends ask me to accompany them to christian events because they said I was so cynical that if anything was wrong I would find it.

Absolutely! i agree 100%. There are many things that the different denominations do which seem to either lack scriptural support or else go completely contrary to scripture.

However, the majority of Christian places of worship don't have members hissing, ululating, growling, shouting, violently trembling, dropping to the floor, rolling down the isles nor claiming to be the Lord Jesus or some other biblical personage while mimicking the bodily movements of voodoo practitioners.

So when confronted with such an horrendously unbiblical display, I can't help but to suspect something ungodly at work.

 

[RDKirk]

The viewpoint I was taught was the one that the video mentions which is held by some Catholics, that the gift of tongues was a first-century phenomenon for a church that was in its infancy and needed such demonstrations in order to accelerate its growth. Paul does say that tongues would be done away with when a maturity was reached. So that was and still is my understanding and still is my preferred viewpoint.

I've been gathering a somewhat different understanding of why tongues existed and were necessary in the early church. When I look at where tongues are specifically mentioned and what the result actually was, I see that the purpose of tongues was as the specific tool used by the Holy Spirit to convince the Christianized Jews that He was moving out into the non-Jewish world.

Peter says this explicitly: If not specifically and uniquely because the Holy Spirit had demonstrated tongues in their own group, and then Cornelius spoke in tongues himself, Peter would not have baptized Cornelius--that is the specific reason Peter gives (Jesus telling him in a dream was apparently not enough on its own--that's how intransigent Peter's "Gentiles are vile" prejudice was). When Philip evangelized the Samaritans, Peter and John didn't believe in their conversion until they saw the Samaritans speaking in tongues.

Without exception, the result demonstrated in scripture of speaking in tongues in scripture is to convince someone who is already a Christian that an unexpected group has accepted Jesus.

So this causes me to look again at what Paul says about the purpose of speaking in tongues and makes me re-evaluate the antecedents of his pronouns.

 

[Radrook]

The usual explanation for the "slain in the spirit" phenomenon is that Saul was knocked from his horse by the Lord while on the road to Damascus. Why this should be transferrable to any other believer is not so well explained, IMHO, and the 'rolling around' stuff I think is just part and parcel of whatever one thinks is the way the Holy Spirit comes upon the believer. It's supposed to take you over, so....

That's a flimsy basis upon which to justify rolling all over the floor.

 

[Albion]

To give a more complete answer, I should have been clear that there appear to me to be various explanations that Pentecostal and Charismatic Christians who accept the idea of being "slain in the spirit" hold to. Included are these--

• Jesus said to them, “I am He.” And Judas, who betrayed Him, also stood with them. Then when He said to them. “I am He,” – they drew back and fell to the ground.” (John 18:6)

• “And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. But He laid His right hand on me, saying to me, “Do not be afraid; I am the First and the Last.” (Revelation 1:17)

• “And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their faces and were greatly afraid.” But Jesus came and touched them and said, “Arise, and do not be afraid.” (Matthew 17:6

But the one that seems to have had given to me most often would be this one--

• “And as he journeyed he came near Damascus, and suddenly a light shone around him from heaven. Then he fell to the ground, and heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?” (Acts 9:3-4)

 

[Goatee]

To give a more complete answer, I should have been clear that there appear to me to be various explanations that Pentecostal and Charismatic Christians who accept the idea of being "slain in the spirit" hold to. Included are these--

• Jesus said to them, “I am He.” And Judas, who betrayed Him, also stood with them. Then when He said to them. “I am He,” – they drew back and fell to the ground.” (John 18:6)

• “And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. But He laid His right hand on me, saying to me, “Do not be afraid; I am the First and the Last.” (Revelation 1:17)

• “And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their faces and were greatly afraid.” But Jesus came and touched them and said, “Arise, and do not be afraid.” (Matthew 17:6

But the one that seems to have had given to me most often would be this one--

• “And as he journeyed he came near Damascus, and suddenly a light shone around him from heaven. Then he fell to the ground, and heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?” (Acts 9:3-4)

Good find. Thanks for sharing

 

[jimmyjimmy]

To give a more complete answer, I should have been clear that there appear to me to be various explanations that Pentecostal and Charismatic Christians who accept the idea of being "slain in the spirit" hold to. Included are these--

• Jesus said to them, “I am He.” And Judas, who betrayed Him, also stood with them. Then when He said to them. “I am He,” – they drew back and fell to the ground.” (John 18:6)

• “And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. But He laid His right hand on me, saying to me, “Do not be afraid; I am the First and the Last.” (Revelation 1:17)

• “And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their faces and were greatly afraid.” But Jesus came and touched them and said, “Arise, and do not be afraid.” (Matthew 17:6

But the one that seems to have had given to me most often would be this one--

• “And as he journeyed he came near Damascus, and suddenly a light shone around him from heaven. Then he fell to the ground, and heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?” (Acts 9:3-4)

Thanks for explaining; however, none of the texts are prescriptions for some of the things I've seen (on video). On top of that, they aren't even a descriptive match for what goes on either.

 

[Albion]

But these ARE explanations that have been given--very standard ones--by those particular Christian groups. That's not to say that we have to be persuaded by them. However, these verses are about the "slain in the spirit" idea. Why it might be appropriate to twitch or roll around on the floor could be a separate issue, I suppose.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

I see that the purpose of tongues was as the specific tool used by the Holy Spirit to convince the Christianized Jews that He was moving out into the non-Jewish world.

Yes.

Many of the parables and miracles had the same aim. Jesus was bringing judgement on Israel for not being good stewards or a light to the world, and He was ushering in the gentiles. No longer would the Jews have an exclusive deal. . .

 

[Spiritlight]

Aww come on, its great entertainment to break up a boring sermon, besides that it might help clean the floor.

 

[random person]

it has nothing to do with the holy spirit.

and alot to do with tossing out sound and sober doctrine for emotionalism and mass hysteria and mass hypnosis being labelled as personal experiences with the holy spirit

it is truly eerie how much of this resembles the kundalini awakenings from hinduism and the haitian voodoo rituals.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

it has nothing too do with the holy spirit.

and alot to do with tossing out sound and sober doctrine for emotionalism and mass hysteria and mass hypnosis being labelled as personal experience with the holy spirit

it is truly eerie how much of this resembles kundalini awakenings from hinduism and haitian voodoo rituals.

There does seem to be similarity. Have you seen this video?