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Featured Does the OT say not to lie?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by W2L, Nov 13, 2018.

  1. W2L

    W2L Well-Known Member

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    I know the 10 commandments command us not to bear false witness against our neighbor but what about other lies?
     
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  2. Halbhh

    Halbhh The wonder and awe of His Creation! Supporter

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    Lying is one of a group of 7 sins that are especially detestable:

    Bible Gateway passage: Proverbs 6:16-19 - New International Version

    And what I immediately think of as lying is when someone intends to deceive others by speaking what they know is false (and that includes asserting something as if fact that one isn't sure is fact; to speak as if certain about what one knows may not be certain).
     
  3. W2L

    W2L Well-Known Member

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  4. bcbsr

    bcbsr Newbie

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    Lev 19:11 You shall not steal, nor deal falsely, nor lie to one another.
     
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  5. W2L

    W2L Well-Known Member

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    Thank you.
     
  6. brinny

    brinny everlovin' shiner of light in dark places Supporter

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    This is an excellent study, my friend. What seems to be intrinsically part of the bearing false witness, is any malice involved towards the party lied about and seeking their harm or demise.

    It's part of a "heart condition" that God is focusing on.
     
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  7. Halbhh

    Halbhh The wonder and awe of His Creation! Supporter

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    In a key way, yes it does. :) When someone asks about a 'white lie' like telling someone they look fine when you think it's less than fine, I think of the way Christ said Matthew 7:12 as how to know. You put yourself in their shoes, and then ask what you'd want in their shoes, if you were in their position. As I think of it, a real lie is meant to take advantage of others, so that it is like theft in a way. To put others at disadvantage for one's seeming own gain at their expense.
    When you think on it well, you see that many 'white lies' are not ok -- they are not what you'd want if you were in that position. But some are not that way, and are more like only a politeness, and the person is not tricked, but only comforted. You're point about love is a great way to help discern this one.
     
  8. W2L

    W2L Well-Known Member

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    Yes love fulfills the law so bearing false witness against someone would not be love.
     
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  9. W2L

    W2L Well-Known Member

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    You make a good point. Yes, love fulfils the law.
     
  10. HTacianas

    HTacianas Well-Known Member

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    There is no specific commandment against lying per se, but "biblical" lying, such as "all liars" found in the Revelation refers to what we today call fraud. The Didache warns that a lie leads to theft, while the Shepherd of Hermes compares it to robbery.

    Lying in a business transaction was considered especially heinous in biblical times. One stern warning in the old testament was against holding back the wages of a worker. To cause a man to work a full day and then not pay him is the same as stealing from him. The old testament also warns against using rigged scales.

    But you should always be truthful. Maybe even about "the one that got away".
     
  11. ~Anastasia~

    ~Anastasia~ † Servant of God † Supporter CF Senior Ambassador

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    Sometimes we are forced in the world to choose the "lesser of evils". Rahab lied to protect Joshua's spies, the midwives lied to protect Moses and the other Hebrew babies. Lying is still technically a sin, but if we are forced to answer something, it is a greater sin to deliver up the innocent to murder.
     
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  12. brinny

    brinny everlovin' shiner of light in dark places Supporter

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    Excellent point. It's right in sync with the "intent" of the heart, via the "heart condition". The stickler here, is examples of Rahab, and those protecting others in "hiding" from evil intent, for instance.

    The bottom line is, what is and has been God's intent when He speaks of bearing false witness, and falsehoods, etc?
     
  13. W2L

    W2L Well-Known Member

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    Thank you.
     
  14. W2L

    W2L Well-Known Member

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    Thank you.
     
  15. W2L

    W2L Well-Known Member

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    Yes what is His intent? Im meditating on love.
     
  16. brinny

    brinny everlovin' shiner of light in dark places Supporter

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    That's deeep, isn't it?

    The bottom line is, for example how we are to respond to someone running (Jewish people or anyone else being hunted down) and hiding from for instance the Nazi's, etc.
     
  17. W2L

    W2L Well-Known Member

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    Yes, do unto others as you would have them do to you. I would want someone to lie to the Nazis in order to protect me from them.
     
  18. eleos1954

    eleos1954 God is Love Supporter

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  19. W2L

    W2L Well-Known Member

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  20. Dave-W

    Dave-W Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner! Supporter

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    There is a rabbinic principle determined from such OT stories that says that (with a couple of exceptions) when they are in conflict, negative commands, “Thou Shalt NOT,” are trumped by positive commands; “Thou Shalt.” Our Lord Himself appealed to this in several instances like healing on the Sabbath. So the principle stands.

    In both of your stated cases, the positive command to save life trumps the prohibition of lying. So it is NOT a “lesser of 2 evils” kind of thing after all.
     
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