Does the OT say not to lie?

Phil.Stein

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I'm not criticizing your answer btw. Just looking at the subject a little deeper in response to word choice. :)

God be with you.
thanks. was trying to say that in war, pretty much anything goes.

it does make it hard for christians, because if we love our enemies, we won't kill them (no war), let alone lie to them.
 
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ace of hearts

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I know the 10 commandments command us not to bear false witness against our neighbor but what about other lies?
So are you trying to evade the law with a legalism?

If a person asks to borrow something and I tell them it is broken when it isn't, am I lying or communicating the item isn't available for them?
 
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ace of hearts

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thanks. was trying to say that in war, pretty much anything goes.

it does make it hard for christians, because if we love our enemies, we won't kill them (no war), let alone lie to them.
So what's with God telling Israel to kill whole cities? Doesn't God love them? I thought God is love.
 
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brinny

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What comes to mind for me, is that we are to obey God, rather than man.

It would be a sin to obey a wicked law that God Himself abhors and to "collude" with it.

It ties right in to the "fear of the Lord". Are we to "fear" men, or God?

"Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men." ~Acts 5:29
 
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W2L

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So are you trying to evade the law with a legalism?

If a person asks to borrow something and I tell them it is broken when it isn't, am I lying or communicating the item isn't available for them?

So are you trying to evade the law with a legalism?
No im not. I was just wondering what the OT said about lying.


If a person asks to borrow something and I tell them it is broken when it isn't, am I lying or communicating the item isn't available for them?

Jesus said to give to all who asks. (Matthew 5:42) Is that legalism?
 
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brinny

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That seems helpful, thank you brinny.

You are most welcome, my friend.

Life is tough, and can twist us and scatter us AND our thinking, reasoning, and even our hearts.. Thank GOD for HIS guidance when any of our decisions and/or choices rest on, as it were, a thin thin edge, and the very lives and the very blood of innocent people can quite possibly be resting on it.

God is INFINITELY wiser than ANY of us. THe very beginning point is to "fear the Lord". When we do, EVERYTHING else falls into place.

Such was it so for the midwives in Egypt and when Moses was born, and his mother, rather than obey wicked laws that God abhorred, she chose to "fear God", rather than man, when she HID Moses. And as we find later, it surely was God's will that she did.

This comes to mind:

288876_8f017ff7ee321a80cd44901072721419.jpg
 
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W2L

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You are most welcome, my friend.

Life is tough, and can twist us and scatter us AND our thinking, reasoning, and even our hearts.. Thank GOD for HIS guidance when any of our decisions and/or choices rest on, as it were, a thin thin edge, and the very lives and the very blood of innocent people can quite possibly be resting on it.

God is INFINITELY wiser than ANY of us. THe very beginning point is to "fear the Lord". When we do, EVERYTHING else falls into place.

Such was it so for the midwives in Egypt and when Moses was born, and his mother, rather than obey wicked laws that God abhorred, she chose to "fear God", rather than man, when she HID Moses. And as we find later, it surely was God's will that she did.

This comes to mind:

288876_8f017ff7ee321a80cd44901072721419.jpg
Good quote and wise words as well..
 
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RDKirk

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it does make it hard for christians, because if we love our enemies, we won't kill them (no war), let alone lie to them.

Of course we would in certain circumstances.

I knew an elderly French lady who had been a young girl in France during WWII. Her family regularly helped ferry Jews out of the country to safety. That involved frequently lying to Nazi search patrols.

Now, let's say there was a young German lad who had been a member of one of those patrols. At this point, he's never killed anyone--at least not anyone who hadn't been shooting at him.

When this family lied to the Nazi patrol, they not only saved that particular Jew, they also saved this young German lad from having to kill an innocent person. That was a righteous thing.

Lying to the pharaoh to save the Hebrew boys was a righteous thing--scripture says so.

Lying to save Joshua's spies was a righteous thing--scripture says so.
 
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brinny

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Of course we would in certain circumstances.

I knew an elderly French lady who had been a young girl in France during WWII. Her family regularly helped ferry Jews out of the country to safety. That involved frequently lying to Nazi search patrols.

Now, let's say there was a young German lad who had been a member of one of those patrols. At this point, he's never killed anyone--at least not anyone who hadn't been shooting at him.

When this family lied to the Nazi patrol, they not only saved that particular Jew, they also saved this young German lad from having to kill an innocent person. That was a righteous thing.

Lying to the pharaoh to save the Hebrew boys was a righteous thing--scripture says so.

Lying to save Joshua's spies was a righteous thing--scripture says so.

Whoa!!! You said it so well. It's a quagmire of a question and situation.

You added MUCH clarity to something that can appear so "murky".

Thank you.
 
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~Anastasia~

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thanks. was trying to say that in war, pretty much anything goes.

it does make it hard for christians, because if we love our enemies, we won't kill them (no war), let alone lie to them.
It's not always easy to be Christian, that's true.

The better we know Christ, the more we can know what He would do, and the better we can follow that as our guide, the better we will do.

Thankfully the grace of God is there for us, as long as we are cooperating with it by trying to follow Christ, that will help our shortcomings. Sometimes the world puts us in a position where we are forced to fall short whether we do or we don't do a thing. We can try to do what is in the best interest of others - i.e. Love - and let God worry about the rest. The world is, after all, broken. Someday it won't be anymore. :)
 
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RDKirk

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Those are rare exceptions.

For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith.

In combat with the enemy while on the side of justice and mercy and faith, tactical deception is always righteous, not exceptional.
 
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Reborn1977

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For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith.

In combat with the enemy while on the side of justice and mercy and faith, tactical deception is always righteous, not exceptional.

For clarity, not or debate...The number of times God allowed lying in the Bible "are rare exceptions" compared to His emphasis on being honest and telling the truth. That is what I meant, I was not trying to argue or get into some debate.

Bottom line God expects us to be honest and tell the truth in our dealing with people, the circumstances and instances where He would be okay with lying would be "rare exceptions" comparatively speaking.
 
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RDKirk

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For clarity, not or debate...The number of times God allowed lying in the Bible "are rare exceptions" compared to His emphasis on being honest and telling the truth. That is what I meant, I was not trying to argue or get into some debate.

Bottom line God expects us to be honest and tell the truth in our dealing with people, the circumstances and instances where He would be okay with lying would be "rare exceptions" comparatively speaking.

But the point is to know the principle that creates the exception.
 
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Reborn1977

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But the point is to know the principle that creates the exception.
My original point, in my first post on this topic, was merely to reply to the original post by W2L, which you then quoted I can only imagine because I used the wording "for any reason" (which I could have worded more precisely perhaps), but I do not enjoy straining on a gnat in these matters thus I will not respond any further.

23 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone. 24 Blind guides, who strain out a gnat and swallow a camel!

The New King James Version - Jesus speaking - (Mt 23:23–24)
 
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