Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
The seals are what binds the book closed to know what is in it. Those seals have already been opened back when John was taken in the spirit to heaven, to know what is in the book - which we all have been reading about.Jesus remains to open the 7th seal and remains in heaven for many centuries before the 7th trump announces his return. This is of course a future event.
I'd be surprised if even one person agrees with that. It's quite clear ALL the trumps sound before Jesus returns and the GT does take place during the 6th trump because Rev 11 tells us how the 6th/2nd woe ends and the 7th/3rd woe shortly happens and the two prophets of Rev 11 die in the GT period.
It is a shame that you guys don't make time line charts - that give a comprehensive view of how events fit together - rather than the complicated narrations which get so bogged down so as to be a failure in communication - for lack of a single comprehensive view that a chart has.So here you're going to tell me that at the 7th seal, that chapters and verses aren't Inspired so you disconnect those things
but you're going to think that the 2 witnesses are Chronologically after the 6th trumpet?
When they ordered the chapter break in 10 they really botched up.
Revelation 11's first half is more explanation, and is parenthetical.
there are not 3.5 years between the 6th trumpet and 7th trumpet. What is being explained is what has been happening before the 6th seal.
Kinda like how Babylon is explained in Revelation 17, Babylon didn't become the world capital after the 7 vials, that was way before, before the midpoint.
the flow at the end of chapter 10 flows straight into the first half of Revelation 11
as Revelation 10 is Parenthetical so it continues into the first half of Chapter 11.
it is when they say the two woes are past that Chronology is restored.
Because remember, in chapter 10, the Angel is explaining when the 7th trumpet is sounding that's the end of the mystery of God.
6th seal, great earthquake, and I propose resurrection and rapture.
the two witnesses in Revelation 11, great earthquake, are resurrected, and raptured.
are you going to have 2 resurrections and raptures?
It is a shame that you guys don't make time line charts - that give a comprehensive view of how events fit together - rather than the complicated narrations which get so bogged down so as to be a failure in communication - for lack of a single comprehensive view that a chart has.
Then try to put the sequence of events in order as an outline, in a narration that does not skip around.I just have no skill with graphics or art of any kind.
It is a shame that you guys don't make time line charts - that give a comprehensive view of how events fit together - rather than the complicated narrations which get so bogged down so as to be a failure in communication - for lack of a single comprehensive view that a chart has.
View attachment 323235
View attachment 323232
View attachment 323233
Revelation 8:1 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.except the 7th seal dispenses the trumpets, and the 6th seal says the wrath is come.
We will just have to agree to disagree. I believe at least the first 4 seals have already been opened and maybe we are living in the fifth right now.The 6th seal and all the seals are prophecies of future events.
It was proven.
I said no such thing. The 7th seal does not release the trumps.
This is another strawman fallacy. Rev is chronological in places and not in other places. The chronology jumps around often.
If I was unclear I apologize. The above statement is what you have not proved.Seals, trumpets and vials do overlap to some degree all ending in the return of Christ.As I have said before, all the seals are completed before any angel is given a trumpet. This proves there is no such thing as a seal, trump and vial happening at the same time.
I believe you have misunderstood Luke 17. Those taken are not taken to safety! 36 [There shall be two men in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.] 37 And they answering say unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Where the body [is], thither will the eagles also be gathered together. Where the eagles are gathered is not a place of protection it is a place of destruction! Matthew 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered togetherSo what's the picture painted here?
That it will be normal for sinners up until the day that Jesus comes back, but the righteous will be mocked and persecuted. Both Noah and Lot tried to warn people but they were mocked.
They were also both taken away to safety just before the wrath of God started, not at the end of it, but just before it started. They did however have to endure persecution up to that point.
The wrath of God began the same day they were taken to safety.
Noah and Lot were taken to safety.I believe you have misunderstood Luke 17. Those taken are not taken to safety! 36 [There shall be two men in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.] 37 And they answering say unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Where the body [is], thither will the eagles also be gathered together. Where the eagles are gathered is not a place of protection it is a place of destruction! Matthew 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together
Revelation 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
And everyone else was taken away by the flood. They Ask Jesus where and He did not say to safety. Birds eating dead flesh is not a place of safety.Noah and Lot were taken to safety.
Not the point and isn't even the verses I'm referring to. I'm referring to the examples of Noah and Lot.And everyone else was taken away by the flood. They Ask Jesus where and He did not say to safety. Birds eating dead flesh is not a place of safety.
The problem with setting up this interpretation is that it ignores 2 things. One is that God sent an angel to swear that at the 7th trump the mystery would be finished. If you look at what happens at the 7th you see the dead judged and rewarded. The next thing is that it ignores the fact that the 3 woes are also completed at the 7th trump. this means the vials should be already poured out as well, since if they weren't, the woes would not be finished. This contradicts the rigid chronological interpretation that I used to also subscribe to. I see why you hold it brother, because I held to the same concept for decades. Try to step outside the box for a moment and look at it from a different perspective. Now...it may be that you are correct. It's just that I ran into a few problems with this when I once held to it.All seals are opened before the first trump sounds. When the last trump sounds, the vials will be poured.
That appears to be a reasonable way to put it. I tend to then agree.
But what about when this half hour meant ends? Shouldn't that mean heaven is once again occupied? Otherwise, wouldn't the silence in heaven be neverending if the initial reason for the silence is that Jesus, the saints and the angels have come to earth? Does this mean they return 30 minutes later in order for the silence in heaven to end?
I have heard the theory you are proposing before. I don't know if it explains it or not since the text indicates the silence is for about half an hour. And once again, the fact this half hour has to end, this should mean this silence has ended when this half hour meant expires. So, what ended it if what started it was Jesus, the saints and the angels having come to earth, thus vacated heaven 30 minutes earlier?
I am thinking that perhaps it only takes 30 minutes to subdue all the nations. Once they are then the silence ends. Does that answer your question or I am misunderstanding it?That appears to be a reasonable way to put it. I tend to then agree.
But what about when this half hour meant ends? Shouldn't that mean heaven is once again occupied? Otherwise, wouldn't the silence in heaven be neverending if the initial reason for the silence is that Jesus, the saints and the angels have come to earth? Does this mean they return 30 minutes later in order for the silence in heaven to end?
I have heard the theory you are proposing before. I don't know if it explains it or not since the text indicates the silence is for about half an hour. And once again, the fact this half hour has to end, this should mean this silence has ended when this half hour meant expires. So, what ended it if what started it was Jesus, the saints and the angels having come to earth, thus vacated heaven 30 minutes earlier?
but you're going to think that the 2 witnesses are Chronologically after the 6th trumpet?
I understand some of this but parts like where you keep talking about 6 seals (rather than all 7) makes no sense.
The 2 witnesses I don't have starting their ministry in the 2nd half, or even really the first half, but they minister for 1260 days during the middle, it overlapsThe 6th trumpet obviously involves the time of the 2Ws if the 6th trumpet is the 2nd woe, and that once the following below happens to the 2Ws, we are then told the 2nd woe is past.
Revelation 9:13 And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,
This is where the events involving the 6th trumpet begin. Ch 10 is parenthetical, like you already pointed out. Ch 11, though some of it too is parenthetical in portions, not all of it is, though. Obviously, the 1260 days they prophesy, this has to fit somewhere. And that the following indicates it fits during the 6th trumpet.
Revelation 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
Verse 14 undeniably proves that the time of the 2Ws, that it involves the 6th trumpet. Does not verse 13 say---And the same hour was there a great earthquake? The same hour as what? How can it not be this? And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
And does not verse 14 say---The second woe is past? Meaning the events involving the 6th trumpet. If the 2Ws are called to heaven, and that during that same hour there was a great earthquake, and that we are then told that the 2nd woe is past, it is ludricrous for anyone to insist that the the time of the 2Ws that this does not involve the 6th trumpet.
By you putting all the trumpets after the trib of those days, your interpretation, whether you realize it or not, is putting, not only the time of the 2Ws, after the great trib, but also the time of the beast and it's42 month reign, after the trib as well. The time of the 2Ws come first, followed by the time of the beast, though some interpreters think those times run in parallel.
Regardless, which view might be correct concerning that, they still involve the time of the 6th trumpet, and that you have the 6th trumpet after the trib of those days, after great tribulation. And that you're arguing the wrath of God is not the great tribulation, the wrath of God is after great tribulation. But by wrongly placing the 6th trumpet after great tribulation, the fact it fits during great tribulation, you have then made the great tribulation to be involving the wrath of God since you insist all the trumpets are the wrath of God.
Except the way you are trying to get around that, the 6th trumpet is meaning after great tribulation. This is yet more reasons as to why your view involving all the trumpets isn't making sense to me, since it would mean that the time of the beast and it's 42 months is not involving the great tribulation, it is meaning after the great tribulation, the fact the time of the beast undeniably involves the time of the 6th trumpet, and that you have the time of the 6th trumpet after the great trib.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?