Does the Book of Revelation repeat itself?

[Douggg]

 

[Timtofly]

Does this mean that you agree that all 7 vials are poured out during the 7th trumpet, exactly what I'm arguing? Some interpreters think, for example, that during the first trumpet, the first vial is also poured out, and that during the 2nd trumpet, the 2nd vial is also poured out, etc. I don't see that being logical myself since the first vial involves being poured out on those that have the mark, and are worshiping his image. And if the first vial is meanig during the first trumpet, this indicates that they already have the mark and are already worshiping his image prior to the time of the first trumpet, since it would be unreasonable to be pouring out vials on ppl who are not even doing those things yet.

It is the 7th Trumpet that gets split into 2 halves per Daniel 9:27.

This is a week of days, not a week of years.

About mid week of the sounding of the 7th Trumpet, Satan is given 42 months.


The 7th Trumpet finishes 42 months later while the 2 witnesses lay dead for 3.5 days. The last half of the week that was split in half.

The 7 vials are also poured out on these last 3 days, while the 7th Trumpet is still sounding.

The earthquake in Revelation 11 of the 2 witnesses is the same earthquake at the 7th vial. That is when they come to life and ascend into heaven.

But all the Seals are opened before the first Trumpet. The Second Coming is the 6th Seal. Jesus is on earth during the Trumpets and Thunders. Jesus leaves earth with the 144k in the middle of the week of the 7th Trumpet for mount zion.

Revelation 19 is not the Second Coming. It is the return after Satan's 42 months, to take back control, and then Satan is bound for 1,000 years.

Jesus and the angels are on the earth during the final harvest, the GT. This is the first 6 Trumpets and the 7 Thunders. Jesus is not on the earth during Satan's 42 months, the AoD.

There is silence in heaven at the 7th Seal, because Jesus is already on earth setting up His throne and temple in Jerusalem. It is like at a golf tournament when the golfer is setting up for his tee off. The crowd in heaven holds their breath, and waits in silence as Jesus is about to tee off the final harvest. Once the first Trumpet sounds they can be as noisy as they want in Paradise while the GT, final harvest, happens on earth.

Matthew 13 and Matthew 25 show Jesus and the angels are on earth during the GT, final harvest. Satan only gets the leftovers. The 7th Trumpet may not be split at all. Satan may not get 42 months. We will only know at the 7th Trumpet when the Atonement Covenant is confirmed to see if all the redeemed were harvested, or if some are left.

Satan does not take over the world and has a one world government prior to the Second Coming. Satan is allowed to take over the throne Jesus Himself set up, if that becomes necessary. But no one can know for certain until the 7th Trumpet starts to sound.

 

[Timtofly]

Christ said it would be cut short, and Rev shows us how long it was cut down to. It was originally 7 years so it was cut down to half of that.

The AoD length was not shortened. It will be 42 months if at all.

The GT is shortened. Jesus is sitting on His throne during the GT.

The reason the GT is shorter, is because the fulness of the Gentiles, the church age goes past the time the GT should have started.

The Second Coming has always been the unknown point of the Day of the Lord. Revelation 19 is not the Second Coming. Revelation 19 happens after Satan's 42 months of the AoD.

The Second Coming is the 6th Seal, and no one can know the exact hour and day the 6th and 5th Seal are opened. They are opened after the days of the first 4 Seals, that period of tribulation, that no one thinks will happen, but does.

 

[Douggg]

The 7 vials are also poured out on these last 3 days, while the 7th Trumpet is still sounding.

That is impossible.

The sixth vial of God's wrath alone of gathering of the armies of the earth to Armageddon will be a major that will take over a month.

 

[Timtofly]

What about if that's just when Jesus goes down?

Because okay, so 6th seal is the signs of Him appearing on the clouds, and Revelation 7 has the lamb still in heaven
Revelation 7


So the lamb is in heaven in this scene. So it's like the heavens open up in the 6th seal, and Jesus is visible on the clouds on a throne, that's what those on the Earth are wailing about, to hide them from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the lamb.

Revelation 6

These are unbelievers, they have to see Him to believe Him.
But anyway, He doesn't come down then, He's visible, He's worshiped by those raptured up, THEN He comes down, with the 7th seal, and the 7 trumpets.

because as I pointed out to you I guess in another thread, in Revelation 19, the Lamb is not stated to be gin heaven. He's talked about, but they don't worship the Lamb as they worship God who sits on the throne. While in Revelation 7 they worship both God who sits on the throne, AND the Lamb.
It's a critical omission.

That scene in Revelation 7 was of the last 1992 years since the Cross. They have all been serving God with the Lamb since the Cross. People have been added to that multitude daily for over 1900 years (out of great tribulation). That is now the church glorified, but the church was removed from earth as Jesus was heading to the Mount of Olives. Jesus sets up His throne and temple in Jerusalem between the 6th and 7th Seals.

Jesus and the angels gather the final harvest during the first 6 Trumpets and the 7 Thunders.

 

[Timtofly]

I tend to think what is meant by it is cut short, is the fact that if it continued indefinitely, the end result would be what is trying to be avoided, that no flesh would be saved. It doesn't matter if it's meaning 7 years or 3.5 years, it still involves that entire amount of time, 3.5 years in this case, but isn't permitted to extend past that period of time because if it did, no flesh would be saved eventually. By no flesh being saved, I tend to take that to mean as in wiped off the planet, as in went extinct. Keeping in mind, it says it is for the elect's sake these days are cut short. The elect, obviously meaning the church, which further proves that the wrath is against the church, thus satan's wrath, not God's wrath---for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time(Revelation 12:12)

Going extinct is not what it meant. It means there was a longer opportunity to repent and be among the glorified church.

Adam's dead corruptible flesh is going extinct. None of Adam's dead corruptible flesh will exist in the Millennium.

 

[Timtofly]

I'd be surprised if even one person agrees with that. It's quite clear ALL the trumps sound before Jesus returns and the GT does take place during the 6th trump because Rev 11 tells us how the 6th/2nd woe ends and the 7th/3rd woe shortly happens and the two prophets of Rev 11 die in the GT period.

Since the Second Coming is the 6th Seal, I have repeatedly claimed, Jesus and the angels are on earth during the first 6 Trumpets and the 7 Thunders.

This is the final harvest. This is Jacob's trouble, because all of Israel will be removed from Adam's dead corruptible flesh. Some as sheep to live on earth during the Millennium, the remnant. The rest of Israel as goats. The wheat and tares are dealt with during the Thunders.

Of course events have happened when the Seals have been opened. John was told to look towards the earth from heaven to watch what happens and write it down. He wrote down those events and used 4 horses as bullet points.

Since Jesus was opening the Seals and the rapture Second Coming happened at the 5th and 6th Seal, they did not get bullet points. There are only 4 points for the tribulation of those days the church would endure.

 

[ewq1938]

Since the Second Coming is the 6th Seal,

The 6th seal describes the second coming but it is not when the second coming happens which is why Christ remains in heaven rather than leave to the clouds of the Earth.

 

[Timtofly]

Only the 7th trumpet is the wrath of God.

The 7th Trumpet is a celebration of The Victory of Jesus over sin and Adam's dead corruptible flesh.

The third woe is if Satan splits this celebration in half, and is allowed his AoD.

The 7th Trumpet is the end of Adam's 6,000 years of sin and death. The 7th Trumpet is the end of Daniel's 70 weeks. The final harvest was the last 3.5 years of Jesus as King, the Prince to come. Jesus was on earth with His angels during the GT. Satan's 42 months is the AoD. The 3.5 days at the end of this 42 months, the last half of the week of the 7th Trumpet, this same 3.5 days the 2 witnesses are dead in Jerusalem is when the 7 vials of God's wrath are poured out on Satan's Babylonian empire. The grand finale is Armageddon. Armageddon is a one hour battle. At the end of that hour the 7th Trumpet stops sounding. The Day of the Lord starts at that moment.

 

[Timtofly]

That is impossible.

The sixth vial of God's wrath alone of gathering of the armies of the earth to Armageddon will be a major that will take over a month.

There are not that many souls left on earth at that point.

Of course it is possible. All alive have been headed towards Jerusalem for 2 years. Those who choose beheading have been fleeing Jerusalem.

If the church is around 2 billion that is a quarter. In the Seals 2 billion die. In the Trumpets 2 billion die. In the Thunders 2 billion die. That is 8 billion.

 

[Timtofly]

The 6th seal describes the second coming but it is not when the second coming happens which is why Christ remains in heaven rather than leave to the clouds of the Earth.

The 6th Seal is the Prince to come moment. The 5th Seal is the glorification of the church. The putting on of the white robe.

The Church is glorified at the Second Coming. The 5th and 6th Seal is that event.

 

[ewq1938]

The 6th Seal is the Prince to come moment.

Pretty hard to do when there is no coming done at all.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

I have not seen where there are parallel time periods in the Book of Revelation.
But I do see where the seals, trumpets, and bowls are in a different arraignment.
There are the seven seals, and the seven trumpets are within the seventh seal.
There are the seven trumpets, and the seven bowls are withing the seventh trumpet (and therefore the seven bowls, being in the seventh trumpet, are also in the seventh seal).

So everything happening in the trumpets and bowls can be said to be happening in the seventh seal.
And everything happening in the seven bowls can be said to be happening in the seventh trumpet.
For those holding to the post trib rapture, it is possible that the rapture (at the end of bowl 7) also occurs during the 7th trumpet: "the last trump".

 

[Douggg]

Of course it is possible. All alive have been headed towards Jerusalem for 2 years. Those who choose beheading have been fleeing Jerusalem.

Based on what ?

If the church is around 2 billion that is a quarter. In the Seals 2 billion die. In the Trumpets 2 billion die. In the Thunders 2 billion die. That is 8 billion.

How do you know how many people die because of what the seven thunders said - since John was told not to write down what the seven thunders said ? In Revelation 10:3-4.

 

[Douggg]

I have not seen where there are parallel time periods in the Book of Revelation.
But I do see where the seals, trumpets, and bowls are in a different arraignment.
There are the seven seals, and the seven trumpets are within the seventh seal.
There are the seven trumpets, and the seven bowls are withing the seventh trumpet (and therefore the seven bowls, being in the seventh trumpet, are also in the seventh seal).
View attachment 323741
So everything happening in the trumpets and bowls can be said to be happening in the seventh seal.
And everything happening in the seven bowls can be said to be happening in the seventh trumpet.
For those holding to the post trib rapture, it is possible that the rapture (at the end of bowl 7) also occurs during the 7th trumpet: "the last trump".

Could you please show a bar on your chart representing the great tribulation?

 

[DavidPT]

It is the 7th Trumpet that gets split into 2 halves per Daniel 9:27.

This is a week of days, not a week of years.

About mid week of the sounding of the 7th Trumpet, Satan is given 42 months.


The 7th Trumpet finishes 42 months later while the 2 witnesses lay dead for 3.5 days. The last half of the week that was split in half.

The 7 vials are also poured out on these last 3 days, while the 7th Trumpet is still sounding.

The earthquake in Revelation 11 of the 2 witnesses is the same earthquake at the 7th vial. That is when they come to life and ascend into heaven.

But all the Seals are opened before the first Trumpet. The Second Coming is the 6th Seal. Jesus is on earth during the Trumpets and Thunders. Jesus leaves earth with the 144k in the middle of the week of the 7th Trumpet for mount zion.

Revelation 19 is not the Second Coming. It is the return after Satan's 42 months, to take back control, and then Satan is bound for 1,000 years.

Jesus and the angels are on the earth during the final harvest, the GT. This is the first 6 Trumpets and the 7 Thunders. Jesus is not on the earth during Satan's 42 months, the AoD.

There is silence in heaven at the 7th Seal, because Jesus is already on earth setting up His throne and temple in Jerusalem. It is like at a golf tournament when the golfer is setting up for his tee off. The crowd in heaven holds their breath, and waits in silence as Jesus is about to tee off the final harvest. Once the first Trumpet sounds they can be as noisy as they want in Paradise while the GT, final harvest, happens on earth.

Matthew 13 and Matthew 25 show Jesus and the angels are on earth during the GT, final harvest. Satan only gets the leftovers. The 7th Trumpet may not be split at all. Satan may not get 42 months. We will only know at the 7th Trumpet when the Atonement Covenant is confirmed to see if all the redeemed were harvested, or if some are left.

Satan does not take over the world and has a one world government prior to the Second Coming. Satan is allowed to take over the throne Jesus Himself set up, if that becomes necessary. But no one can know for certain until the 7th Trumpet starts to sound.

Revelation 16:12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.


What some of us have noted is this, where the coming in verse 15 is placed in this chapter. It is placed between the 6th and 7th vial. But if the idea is, that this coming precedes any of the vials, why then is it recorded between the 6th and 7th vial, thus giving the impression, as of the 6th vial, the coming recorded in verse 15 hasn't occured yet, that it occurs during the 7th vial? Which then makes perfect sense of the 5th vial, for example, since that vial records that they repented not, where that obviously means repenting is at least an option, except they fail to do it. And that it doesn't make sense to some of us that repenting could still be an option after Christ has literally bodily returned.

And since there is also a Prewrath view, what I'm arguing here appears to maybe even debunk that view as well. Unless one wants to argue, that vial 5, for example, this is not related to God's wrath, or that one still has the option to repent after Christ has bodily returned.

 

[DavidPT]

View attachment 323369

Seriously, other than you, who can even make sense of this chart? Even if your chart was correct, what purpose does it serve if one cannot even follow what you are trying to convey here? And somehow you think charts like this make things clearer for others. Maybe for rocket scientists, except most of us are not rocket scientists.

 

[Douggg]

Revelation 16:12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

Revelation 16:12, the Euphrates dried up, the kings of the east with their massive army, march into Israel. The kings of the north and south are inside of Israel as well, focusing on removing the beast from power.

When suddenly like a thief in the night, the sixth seal event takes place, the sign of the Son of man in heaven, sending terror into them all.

Revelation 16:13 in reaction, the dragon, the beast, and the false prophet, convince the kings of the earth to band together to make war on Jesus, to stop Him from executing judgment on them.

Revelation 16:14 they assemble their armies at Armageddon.

Revelation 16:15 is for the Jews at that time, who will have turned to Jesus, to keep strong their belief in him.

 

[Douggg]

Seriously, other than you, who can even make sense of this chart? Even if your chart was correct, what purpose does it serve if one cannot even follow what you are trying to convey here? And somehow you think charts like this make things clearer for others. Maybe for rocket scientists, except most of us are not rocket scientists.

Just follow the events along the red line. The red line walks you through the 7 years events, once the seven years start.

To use the chart, begin in the upper left hand corner, which the first event pre-7 years is little horn leader of the EU, down through the chart, to reach the lower right hand corner, with the last event of the 7 years is the Armies destroyed.

What day of the 7 years is highlighted in pale yellow, and are read horizontally. There are only 5 days of the seven years highlighted on the chart. day1, day 220, day 1185, day 1260, day 2520. It's not that many, David. Confirmation of the covenant begins day 1 of the 7 years.

I had to make the chart on a diagonal for the critical path red line, because to make everything horizontal there is too much information to fit into a post and still be viewable without a magnifying glass. I don't know that I can explain that clearly to someone who doesn't make charts.

 

[DavidPT]

Revelation 16:12, the Euphrates dried up, the kings of the east with their massive army, march into Israel. The kings of the north and south are inside of Israel as well, focusing on removing the beast from power.

When suddenly like a thief in the night, the sixth seal event takes place, the sign of the Son of man in heaven, sending terror into them all.

Revelation 16:13 in reaction, the dragon, the beast, and the false prophet, convince the kings of the earth to band together to make war on Jesus, to stop Him from executing judgment on them.

Revelation 16:14 they assemble their armies at Armageddon.

Revelation 16:15 is for the Jews at that time, who will have turned to Jesus, to keep strong their belief in him.

Why can't the 6th seal involve all of the vials? Don't all of the vials involve His wrath? And does not the 6th seal indicate that the great day of His wrath is come?

But, something I have now noticed though, something I wasn't paying all that much attention to prior to your post here, is this.

Revelation 16:13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

Revelation 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

So maybe there is something to what you are proposing after all. I'm just not entirely certain yet.