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All seals are opened before the first trump sounds. When the last trump sounds, the vials will be poured.
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The trumpets sound and the vials are poured out all during the seven seals. You are placing a restriction that really isn't there.
I'm pretty certain jamdoc already agrees with that. I think =/= means Not Equal to.
except the 7th seal dispenses the trumpets
There is one part I disagree with his statement the "3 and a half year tribulation" I don't think the great tribulation is even that long. that's the MAXIMUM length of time it can be, but it's cut short.
The 7th seal only showed John 30 min of silence in heaven. It does not have anything to do with the trumpets.
1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.
2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
1 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.
2 And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.
3 And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.
4 And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand.
5 And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake.
6 And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.
26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.
32 Remember Lot's wife.
Christ said it would be cut short, and Rev shows us how long it was cut down to. It was originally 7 years so it was cut down to half of that.
The seven seals are parenthetical and cover the entire judgement period.
There is silence in heaven because Jesus, the saints and the angels have come to earth
All seals are opened before the first trump sounds. When the last trump sounds, the vials will be poured.
That appears to be a reasonable way to put it. I tend to then agree.
But what about when this half hour meant ends? Shouldn't that mean heaven is once again occupied? Otherwise, wouldn't the silence in heaven be neverending if the initial reason for the silence is that Jesus, the saints and the angels have come to earth? Does this mean they return 30 minutes later in order for the silence in heaven to end?
I have heard the theory you are proposing before. I don't know if it explains it or not since the text indicates the silence is for about half an hour. And once again, the fact this half hour has to end, this should mean this silence has ended when this half hour meant expires. So, what ended it if what started it was Jesus, the saints and the angels having come to earth, thus vacated heaven 30 minutes earlier?
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
These are unbelievers, they have to see Him to believe Him.15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
It was never "originally 7 years"
it was given in Daniel as time, times, and half a time, 3.5 years.
because as I pointed out to you I guess in another thread, in Revelation 19, the Lamb is not stated to be gin heaven. He's talked about, but they don't worship the Lamb as they worship God who sits on the throne. While in Revelation 7 they worship both God who sits on the throne, AND the Lamb.
It's a critical omission.
Which doesn't mean the same thing as all of the events involving the first 6 seals, that these events are fulfilled before any of the trumpets sound, correct? If yes, I think I'm finally grasping where you are coming from in that case.
I'm not sure I understand your question. My belief is that all the seals are simply glimpses of future events that will happen when the trumps sound. Jesus was in heaven opening the seals, all of them. He did not leave heaven when he opened teh 6th seal because it was not an event that was happening right then. Nothing happened in the world or heaven when each seal was opened aside from John seeing visions of the future.
That seems to mean that even though all the seals have already been opened, the events they involve haven't been fulfilled yet, or at least none of them were being fulfilled as Jesus was opening them, like you indicated. Where pertaining to the latter, I fully agree. which then means, just because the first trumpet is recorded as if it chronologically follows after the first 6 seals are fulfilled first, meaning what they record that those things come to pass, that that is not really the case.
IOW, it is not until all 7 seals are opened first, that any angels are eventually given trumpets to sound. Which means that happens in real time once it begins, something that never happened when the seals were opened 2000 years ago. And that this does not mean that the first angel, for example, sounds after what is recorded in the first 6 seals come to pass first. Not meaning the opening of the seals since that obviously already came to pass, but meaning the events each seal is involving, those events coming to pass.
Hopefully this is less confusing this time around for you, as to what I was getting at, since I'm thinking that it sounds like we might be on the same page here.
I tend to think what is meant by it is cut short, is the fact that if it continued indefinitely, the end result would be what is trying to be avoided, that no flesh would be saved. It doesn't matter if it's meaning 7 years or 3.5 years, it still involves that entire amount of time, 3.5 years in this case, but isn't permitted to extend past that period of time because if it did, no flesh would be saved eventually. By no flesh being saved, I tend to take that to mean as in wiped off the planet, as in went extinct. Keeping in mind, it says it is for the elect's sake these days are cut short. The elect, obviously meaning the church, which further proves that the wrath is against the church, thus satan's wrath, not God's wrath---for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time(Revelation 12:12)
As to Revelation 7 and what you brought up, where I am assuming you are meaning verses 15-17, if comparing that to Revelation 21-22, the time period meant is during the new heavens and new earth and is meaning on earth not in heaven. Therefore, in that particular context it is parenthetical, in my opinion anyway.
As to the 7 trumpets, though you never brought this up in this post, and that they have to fit somewhere within Matthew 24 since that ch recodrs the 2nd coming, and that the first 6 trumpets at least, have to precede the 2nd coming. While I can see trumpets 1-3 maybe fitting after the great tribulation, I'm not seeing how trumpets 4-6 could also be meaning after great tribulation. Those trumpets involve the time of the beast, at least trumpet 6 does, which then means trumpet 6 fits during the time involving Matthew 24:15-26.
And since the first 3 trumpets logically precede the 6th trumpet, and that if the the 6th trumpet involves Matthew 24:15-26, this means the first 3 trumpets are meaning prior to the trib of those days, or maybe even during the trib of those days, not after the trib of those days. This is why your view on this is so confusing to me since I can't see trumpets 4-6 meaning after the trib of those days, and that trumpets 1-3 have to precede trumpets 4-6.
all of them happen after the great tribulation, they all happen after Jesus returns.
so here's a thing, this idea that the seals aren't events but rather just information and the scroll can't be read until after all 7 seals are undone...
but what is described as happening are events
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