does the bible pradict the reign of the 10 germanic tribes and the vatican and papacy

[Yauming]

The Pope's power was powerful in the past. But at the moment the Pope's influence in the Catholic world, much less the outside world is weak. I'm not talking about his theorectical theological power of course.

The pope is suppose to be infalliable on matters of faith but he's having enough trouble trying to convince Catholics to stop using contraceptives, condoms etc...

He's also having a pretty hard time getting enough good decent Catholic men to enter the Priesthood. Err... as atested by a recent post by RThunder, he seems to be attracting the rather wrong type. Just kidding

Moreover, Italy hasn't been a great military power house for a very long time. During WWII, the Italian soldiers were nicknamed chocolate soldiers because their courage "melted" during the heat of battle. The only people the Italians had success in conquering were the Abbysessians who were armed mainly with spears. The Italians, had to use poison gas and tanks, to score a victory.

Cheers,

YM

 

[rollinTHUNDER]

Hello celtic crusader,
Okay, so we're in agreement on the ten horns are all at once. And the same for the European Union becoming Roman Empire. I would also agree that the first six chapters in Daniel are history, but the last six are prophecy. It took us this long, because your posts are way too long.

But I still have a problem with that History Professor's theory. One of his tribes is totally wrong. The Vandels on your map, they are not from the Roman Empire, or EU. This is now the State of Lybia, which is muslim. He was stretching to get that tenth one, wasn't he??

His theory is not too far off. I would say that he was pretty close, but not close enough. I would say that the ten toes are ten nations. These ten are very weak. But when you combine them, their weakness turns to strength, as in the coalition of today that is fighting against terrorism. His real and lasting strength though, won't be until He deceives the world into getting the mark of the beast. Then they will be trapped and defenseless and powerless. This will not be the pope. The Pope will only be his pawn, and this will be temporary as well. I believe the Pope will be the false prophet. The Anti-christ will later remove the Pope, then 3 1/2 years into the tribulation, after he has deceived all that he can, he will go into the New Jewish Temple and claim to be God. This is known as the abomination that causes desolation.

 

[jukesk9]

Has anyone thought that the Seven Hills spoken of in Revelations does not mean Rome? Could it possibly be seven nations within the vicinity of Jerusalem? Ancient Babylon could well mean Iraq and not Rome. For pagan traditions are alive and well in Iraq. Saddam isn't that devout of a Muslim. Arabs hate the Jews. The Vatican doesn't. Does it make sense an all out assault on the Jewish people would be launched from the Vatican or from the Middle East? Just my .02 cents.

 

[jukesk9]

The Catholic Church is seen as the "one world faith" to many because it is so universal. But it's not a member of the World Council of Churches. However, have you heard of the United Religions Initiative? The stated purpose of the United Religious Initiative is "to promoting enduring, daily interfaith cooperation, ending religiously motivated violence and creating cultures of peace, justice and healing for the Earth and all living beings." URI, the brainchild of Episcopal Bishop William Swing of San Francisco, and patterned after the United Nations, envisions "a world where the values and teachings of the great wisdom traditions guide people's service, where people respect one another's beliefs, and where the resourcefulness and passion of people working together bring healing and a more hopeful future to the Earth community. URI's charter expressly forbids proselytizing (evangelism) among URI's members.


Cardinal Arinze, head of the Vatican's Council for Inter-Religious Dialogue, said that a United Religions would give the appearance of syncretism and it would water down our need to evangelize. It would force authentic religions to be on equal footing with spurious religions. The Vatican is opposed to this. The Vatican sees the need to evangelize as it carries out Christ's command to make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and the Son and the Holy Spirit. Again, my .02 cents (which won't buy much).

 

[celtic_crusader]

Hi THUNDER,
Your right, my posts are way to long, it just seems so hard to shorten what I am trying to say. I will do my best to make things shorter. I would like to cover a few issues that you mentioned though. It could be long again this time. Trust me, it’s worth looking into more.

But I still have a problem with that History Professor's theory. One of his tribes is totally wrong. The Vandals on your map, they are not from the Roman Empire, or EU. This is now the State of Libya, which is Muslim. He was stretching to get that tenth one, wasn't he??

Actually, that link I gave you, well, I haven’t even read it and I don’t even know what professor your talking about.

I have believed this stuff for years so I have had plenty of time to study it. I mentioned another 5 links in a previous post; I haven’t read them either THUNDER. I speak souly from my own studies and so I will tell you a bit about the vandals.

I will keep this brief;

The vandals are one of the 3 tribes that perished under Arian persecution. The vandals no longer exist as a nation as Daniel said.

They came into Europe as a Germanic tribe. The vandals started a mass migration and invaded Gaul in 406.
The franks (roman allies at the time) refused to let them settle so they crossed into Spain were they settled for a while.

While in Spain they warred with the Visigoths and Rome and built their naval power.

Under preshuer from the Goths the vandals finally crossed into Africa were it wasn`t so populated (although they were still a Germanic tribe).

They built their empire there and ruled the Mediterranean with their navy.

In 455 the vandals sacked Rome it’s self.

The vandals were fervent Arian believers and so pope Leo 1 tried to have them wiped out and by 555 the vandals stopped being a nation as the pope had wiped them of the map.

They were defiantly a major player in bringing Rome down and they were Germanic.

His theory is not too far off. I would say that he was pretty close, but not close enough. I would say that the ten toes are ten nations. These ten are very weak. But when you combine them, their weakness turns to strength, as in the coalition of today that is fighting against terrorism.

Ok, the problem is that there is 1500 yrs missing between the time of Rome`s fall and the future that you are looking to. It is hard to fulfil something in the future if it has already defiantly taken place. Or at least three quarts through the prosses of completion.

His real and lasting strength though, won't be until He deceives the world into getting the mark of the beast. Then they will be trapped and defenceless and powerless. This will not be the pope. The Pope will only be his pawn, and this will be temporary as well.

Ok, well, I believed this has already happened to, learn your history thunder and the future will become clearer.

The roman emporor defiantly did deceive the world by claiming the position of head of gods church and called himself the holy roman emporor. He is still sitting in the same throne in the Vatican.
Europeans were trapped, defenceless and powerless under the vatican through the dark age and middle ages.. Study the Dark Age and the middle age and see that if you weren`t a catholic then you couldn’t even bye or sell. Your possessions were taking from you. Study your history, that’s were the answers are, not in the future.

Thunder, stop reading hal liney, he doesn’t know anything j/k

The mark of the beast, well, have you ever wondered about the mark that is on gods people mentioned a few verses later? Why would john say the mark of the beast and straight after talk about the mark on the foreheads of the sons of god if it is a litral mark? Is god going to send an angel to mark his chosen litraly??

So, why are people saying that the beast’s mark is a literal mark and yet god’s mark is some spiritual thing?

Well, I think that they are both spiritual and the mark is most likely baptism since jesus said to baptise and they will be saved or his, so it isn’t bar coded but a false baptism.

That’s the mark of salvation, baptism. I’m not saying it saves you but it does mark you.

we must know history or we can be easly decieved. we can`t possably understand prophesy without an exallent knowledge of history. if we don`t know history we are looking in the dark.

The Anti-Christ will later remove the Pope, then 3 1/2 years into the tribulation, after he has deceived all that he can, he will go into the New Jewish Temple and claim to be God. This is known as the abomination that causes desolation.

No, I disagree hear too. This is also past, you have been reading hal’s stuff haven’t you??? these guys are of with the faries in my opinion.

Ok, I will start another thread on this because when you see what I put you will be shocked because of what I say and you will fervently disagree but it is history to me.
.
It will be entitled, “were is the antichrist spoken of in Daniel 9.”

In that, I will address what I think it means. To me it doesn’t even mention anything about the anti Christ. It was all about Jesus the messiah. I will address it there so this doesn’t get to long.

I would also agree that the first six chapters in Daniel are history, but the last six are prophecy.

I disagree hear too, a lot of denials predictions would last from the time he spoke them to the time of the end and they are stretched from there to now.

Eg. The 4 beasts and 10 horns and the little horn, they didn`t and won’t happen quickly. They have been in place from the time Daniel spoke it till now. It changes and it is still changing and we get closer to the end were jesus will smite the statue but my point is that they are all progressive predictions over long periods of time so to start placing any full prophesy of Daniels into a short time period in the future is a huge mistake and the future you believe will never ever happen. (offcourse this isn`t in all situations but Daniel talks mainly about the world empires to rule through time.)



There is very little to go. Very little left to fulfill

Sorry it is so long, I wanted to cover a few points that you mentioned.

celtic

ps. no offence agains hal linsey fans , I havn`t even read his stuff and I wouldn`t bother either.
the bible mixed with history is so clear that we don`t need a teacher from the 20th century that thinks everything the bible says is for today??????

we need more biblical history teacher and less so called prophets

 

[celtic_crusader]

The Pope's power was powerful in the past. But at the moment the Pope's influence in the Catholic world, much less the outside world is weak. I'm not talking about his theoretical theological power of course.

Hey yauming,
Do you think that the next pope could be charismatic enough to gain back the power and therefore set himself up very easily as the antichrist?

I don’t mean charismatic as in charismatic churches but as in charisma.

Has anyone thought that the Seven Hills spoken of in Revelations does not mean Rome? Could it possibly be seven nations within the vicinity of Jerusalem? Ancient Babylon could well mean Iraq and not Rome. For pagan traditions are alive and well in Iraq.

hi juke,
are you a roman chatholic??
Actually, revelations make it very clear that the interpretation is shore. The 7 heads are 7 hills that the city sits on.

Rev 17
9
And here is the mind, which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sixtieth.

It calls kings “HORNS” in this prophecy not mountains.


Since Rome was the superpower and also persecuting Christian, there is no doubt at all that this is the city that john is speaking of.

ROME.

Jerusalem couldn’t fit the description because it fell as often as it stood and Babylon can’t be it because prophecy says that Babylon will fall and not rise again and that has happened. Babylon is deserted. Bagdad isn’t Babylon.

Look at the scripture, it is ROME.

Cardinal Arene, head of the Vatican's Council for Inter-Religious Dialogue, said that a United Religions would give the appearance of syncretism and it would water down our need to evangelise. It would force authentic religions to be on equal footing with spurious religions. The Vatican is opposed to this. The Vatican sees the need to evangelise as it carries out Christ's command to make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and the Son and the Holy Spirit. Again, my .02 cents (which won't buy much).

this is not true at all. this cardinal may be of that opinion but the vatican definatly is not.

Have you ever heard of the ecumenical movement? It started 10 or 15 yrs ago I think. Well it is a group of world religious leaders that are trying to unit religions into a common faith. Well, the pope is at the head of this new ecumenical movement, I have seen him sitting with the deli lama disscusing it, as he also is part of it.this has been on the news and in the papers ocasionaly over the last 15 yrs. I know this is true because I am watching it happen in my lifetime.

Check this out thorouly because I for one am very suss on this ecumenical movement to unit Catholicism with budhisim and they even have many other religious leaders. We will be hearing more and more about it, I am shore.

notice the similaritys between catholics and buhdists.

they both are mystry babylon (baal worship of old)

they both have rosarys

reputisious prayers

forbid to marry

monks and nuns

monisterys

temples

statues and idols

bald heads

dress wear for cloths.

worshiping saints

worshipping the madonna goddess.

I could go on alot further on the fact that roman catholisisim is BAAL and so is buhdisim BAAL.

learn history and see your eyes opened. they are already uniting in quiet.

if you don`t believe me , do a thorough search on the net , your bound to come up with exactly what I am saying.

celtic.

 

[rollinTHUNDER]

Hello celtic crusader,
You know- we may never agree. But I want you to know that I really did enjoy reading your stuff. You are right about history, and I could stand to be a little bit sharper in it. But I would also warn you to be very careful, because you stay too much in the past. I agree with a lot of your views but there are still others that I don't. I agree about the abomination that causes desolation happened in the past, but it will also happen in the future. And there were some other things I was going to mention, but I forgot what they were, because your posts are long. By the way, that link I was talking about you gave me this morning, in a private message, and I also thought you said that you didn't believe this theory you were talking about, but just seeing what others thought. But I could be wrong on that, so I won't push it. Maybe I could go back and re-read it, if I can pull it back up.

 

[celtic_crusader]

Hey THUNDER,
you would be surprised at how much I do agree with you on allot of things.

and I also thought you said that you didn't believe this theory you were talking about, but just seeing what others thought. But I could be wrong on that, so I won't push it. Maybe I could go back and re-read it, if I can pull it back up.

I’m not shore I’m with you?? are you talking about the 10 tribes theory. Was this in my PM?? You should be able to pull it up again??

I may have said that I put it hear because I wanted to see what others thought of it. I don’t think I would have said I don’t believe it though???


hear is my original Quote from the first post??

Does the bible predict the reign of the 10 Germanic tribes and the Vatican and papacy????

I would like to say first;
this is not designed to offend Catholics or anyone that respects the pope.

It is designed to inform people of what I believe are the facts.

I may have said that about something like the rapture or something like that , that I`m not shore off???.
I will see if I still got the pm.

But I would also warn you to be very careful, because you stay too much in the past.

well , if we have some more of these debates , maybe you can show me some more. I realy like that Eze 38 thread. I am learning alot just puting what you say to the test and finding that it is coming up trumps every time.

be patiant with me I may be alittle arragant , but I am learning a great deal from your challenges.

god bless you thunder, you are a brother in christ and this I know in my spirit.

celtic