OldShepherd
Zaqunraah
I will only address this first "quote" in your litany Spiderr. I am assuming that this entire list is a blind copy, cut, and paste from some Uni. website. You will see a link, to the ECF online, with each one of my quotes because I researched every one of them myself.Today at 05:24 AM Spiderrr said this in Post #259
Iranaeus, the Bishop of Lyons (c.130 to 200 C.E.)
Wherefore also He drove him out of Paradise, and removed him far from the tree of life, not because He envied him the tree of life, ... but because He pitied him [and did not desire], that he should continue a sinner for ever, nor that the sin which surrounded him should be immortal, and evil interminable and irremediable. But He set a bound to his [state of] sin, by interposing death, and thus causing sin to cease, putting an end to it by the dissolution of the flesh, which should take place in the earth, so that man, ceasing at length to live to sin, and dying to it, might begin to live to God.
Against Heretics, Book III, Chapter. 23.6
First, all these so-called quotes ignore and do NOT address the quotes I posted which showed the ECF consistently taught an eternal place of torment and punishment. Just throwing a long list of copy, pasted quotes at the board does not refute anything I posted.
Second, this is one of the most egregiously, dishonest arguments I have seen in a long time. Here is your so-called quote IN-CONTEXT. The paragrah you quoted is NOT about mankind but one man, Adam, specifically. It is a small part of Irenaeus' argument against a heretic, Tatian.
- Irenaeus, Against Heresies, Chapter XXIII.-Arguments in Opposition to Tatian, Showing that It Was Consonant to Divine Justice and Mercy that the First Adam Should First Partake in that Salvation Offered to All by Christ.
1. It was necessary, therefore, that the Lord, coming to the lost sheep, and making recapitulation of so comprehensive a dispensation, and seeking after His own handiwork, should save that very man who had been created after His image and likeness, that is, Adam,* * *
6. Wherefore also He drove him [Adam] out of Paradise, and removed him [Adam] far from the tree of life, not because He [God] envied him [Adam] the tree of life, as some venture to assert, but because He pitied him, [and did not desire] that he [Adam] should continue a sinner for ever, nor that the sin which surrounded him [Adam] should be immortal, and evil interminable and irremediable. But He [God] set a bound to his [Adams] [state of] sin, by interposing death, and thus causing sin to cease,459 putting an end to it by the dissolution of the flesh, which should take place in the earth, so that man, [Adam] ceasing at length to live to sin, and dying to it, might begin to live to God.
* * *When therefore the Lord vivifies man, that is, Adam, death is at the same time destroyed.
8. All therefore speak falsely who disallow his (Adam's) salvation, shutting themselves out from life for ever, in that they do not believe that the sheep which had perished has been found.465
http://www.ccel.org/fathers2/ANF-01/anf01-60.htm#P7902_2166910
For this purpose did He give them this exhortation: "Fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to send both soul and body into hell; "346 [thus exhorting them] to hold fast those professions of faith which they had made in reference to Him. For He promised to confess before His Father those who should confess His name before men; but declared that He would deny those who should deny Him, and would be ashamed of those who should be ashamed to confess Him.
They indeed, had they been cognizant of our future existence, and that we should use these proofs from the Scriptures, would themselves never have hesitated to burn their own Scriptures, which do declare that all other nations partake of [eternal] life, and show that they who boast themselves as being the house of Jacob and the people of Israel, are disinherited from the grace of God.
the Saviour of those who are saved, and the Judge of those who are judged, and sending into eternal fire those who transform the truth, and despise His Father and His advent.
And this same thing does the Lord also say in the Gospel, to those who are found upon the left hand: "Depart from me, ye cursed, into ever: lasting fire, which my Father hath prepared for the devil and his angels; "454 indicating that eternal fire was not originally prepared for man, but for him who beguiled man, and caused him to offend-for him, I say, who is chief of the apostasy, and for those angels who became apostates along with him; which [fire], indeed, they too shall justly feel, who, like him, persevere in works of wickedness, without repentance, and without retracing their steps.
Chapter XXV.-This World is Ruled Providence of One God, Who is Both Endowed with Infinite Justice to Punish the Wicked, and with Infinite Goodness to Bless the Pious, and Impart to Them Salvation.
Therefore the Father will excel in wisdom all human and angelic wisdom, because He is Lord, and Judge, and the Just One, and Ruler over all. For He is good, and merciful, and patient, and saves whom He ought: nor does goodness desert Him in the exercise of justice,480 nor is His wisdom lessened; for He saves those whom He should save, and judges those worthy of judgment. Neither does He show Himself unmercifully just; for His goodness, no doubt, goes on before, and takes precedency.
4. The God, therefore, who does benevolently cause His sun to rise upon all,481 and sends rain upon the just and unjust, shall judge those who, enjoying His equally distributed kindness, have led lives not corresponding to the dignity of His bounty; but who have spent their days in wantonness and luxury, in opposition to His benevolence, and have, moreover, even blasphemed Him who has conferred so great benefits upon them.
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