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Is the creation account supposed to be interpreted literally?

  • Yes

    Votes: 7 50.0%
  • No

    Votes: 5 35.7%
  • Yes but with nuance

    Votes: 2 14.3%
  • Not even a little, big bang baby!

    Votes: 1 7.1%

  • Total voters
    14
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The Hour IS AT HAND

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If everyone is descended from Abraham then why are we told that we are adopted into the family.

Romans 11:17 Now if some branches have been broken off, and you, a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others to share in the nourishment of the olive root, 18 do not boast over those branches. If you do, remember this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you.…
Everyone is not descended from Abraham literally, but the followers of Christ are the descendants of Abraham spiritually.

Joh 8:37 I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.
Joh 8:38 I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.
Joh 8:39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them,
If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
Joh 8:40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.
Joh 8:41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
Joh 8:42 Jesus said unto them,
If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
Joh 8:43
Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Joh 8:45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
Joh 8:46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
Joh 8:47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
 
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The Hour IS AT HAND

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In the context of science, "wealth" refers to the rich and extensive body of evidence, knowledge, and understanding that has been accumulated through systematic inquiry and empirical research. This wealth of scientific information forms the foundation for further exploration, discovery, and the advancement of human knowledge and technology.
And what does the Bible say about the wisdom of men?

1Cor 1:20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
1Cor 3:18 Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.
1Cor 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.
 
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Diamond72

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And what does the Bible say about the wisdom of men?
Many religious and philosophical traditions posit that divine wisdom or a higher intelligence is an integral part of the creation and order of the world. This belief often underlies the idea that there is a purpose and meaning to the universe, and that this purpose is guided by a divine or transcendent wisdom.
 
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Diamond72

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Everyone is not descended from Abraham literally, but the followers of Christ are the descendants of Abraham spiritually.
According to Bishop Ussher Abraham was born in 1996 BC. Jesus was born exactly 2,000 years later. So it is difficult to trace the DNA on someone that lived 4,000 years ago.
Everyone is not descended from Abraham literally, but the followers of Christ are the descendants of Abraham spiritually.
The "Cohen gene" or the genetic marker associated with the Jewish priestly lineage (Kohen or Cohen) is the Y-chromosomal haplogroup J-P58. It is found in a higher frequency among Jewish populations, particularly among individuals who identify as descendants of the priestly class (Kohanim). However, not all individuals who identify as Kohanim carry this specific genetic marker, and it is not exclusive to Jewish populations.

The frequency of the J-P58 haplogroup can vary among different Jewish communities and regions. Estimates suggest that approximately 5-10% of Jewish males from Ashkenazi, Sephardic, and other Jewish backgrounds may carry this marker. It is important to note that this is a rough estimate and can vary significantly among different populations and communities.
 
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Strong in Him

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Brothers and Sisters, greetings. Today I am going to present evidence for why I think we should trust the Bible and it's creation account as literal, meaning that the Earth is just several thousand years old, just over 6,000 to be more precise. Firstly let me just say that I do not think this issue is a matter of salvation, and therefore not essential, but I fear not trusting the Bible in this regard only helps the adversary further weaken our resolve and understanding when it comes to other issues.
It shouldn't.
What the adversary loves to do is to get Christians obsessed with, and arguing about, matters which are nothing to do with salvation - in the expectation that this will stop us spreading the Gospel and being concerned about salvation.
Ok, so science (or the world) describes the Earth as being billions of years old. Lets see what the Bible says.
Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
Gen 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
Gen 1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
Gen 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.


Now, scripture does tell us that a thousand years is like a day to God.
LIKE. Like. Like. Like. Poetic language.
The Bible is not a science textbook. Genesis tells us GOD made the universe. God does nothing without a reason, so it seems logical to conclude that he created it because he wanted to create it. That tells us that the universe was created by someone and there was a purpose behind it.
God created, but we are not told how he created.
Again we see that a thousand years to God is like one day,
Again, it is LIKE a day.
That does not give us the right to insist that one earthly day is EQUAL to 1000 years for God. God is outside time - how is he going to mark off the days and nights?
Before we do, lets address wisdom, or being wise. Are we, who are sinful and wicked, wise?
The thing with that is that if you are talking to born again Christians - which you are - we still sin but we are not wicked.
We have become new creations 2 Corinthians 5:17, we are made clean when we confess our sins, 1 John 1:9, we have been made righteous by Christ, 2 Corinthians 5:21, we can know God's will, John 6:40 and we have the mind of Christ, 1 Corinthians 2:16.
There is nothing in the whole of creation that was not made through Jesus, John 1:3; that includes wisdom. So the Lord created, and gives, wisdom, and if we feel we need more, we can ask God for it, James 1:5.
So if Satan is running this earth (for a time), should we be surprised if the whole earth is teaching something that is contrary to God and his Word?
It isn't.
The purpose of the Bible is to reveal God, his character, his ways and his works. The Bible says that he created; it does not say how he created. It is not, and never was, the purpose of the Bible to explain how all creatures and plants came to be made - how their arteries, veins. cells and so on were made.
Science can't tell us WHY the world was made; the Bible doesn't tell us how.

We as followers of Christ, should forget what we think we know, and look to God's word for understanding.
Well then, you're going to be stuck.
There are many things the Bible doesn't tell us, and it certainly doesn't address all the problems and issues of life in the 21st century - computers, green issues, IVF, organ transplants etc etc.
If you needed a blood transfusion, pacemaker, hearing aids or an operation to save your life, would you refuse to listen to the doctors and experts and "forget what you thought you knew" because the Bible doesn't address these issues? Or would you gratefully accept, and have more years, or a better quality, of life as a result?

So, the last reason I think the earth is only over 6,000 years is because the signs of the times. I think we are in the last days.
We've been in the Last Days since the ascension. The Apostles believed that Jesus was going to return in their lifetime.
They only began to write the Gospels when it looked like they might be killed before he returned and soon there would be no one left who had known the Lord personally.

Just as God made the Earth in a literal week, he will bring about its completion in a figurative week.
Is there a Bible passage which teaches that, or is that something which "you think that you know"?

Meaning, its been almost 2,000 years since the death and resurection of Jesus Christ. We are now in the figurative third day.
Are we?
We'll soon find out.

We have already read how 1,000 years is like a single day to God. When did Jesus rise from the dead? On the third day. When will he return? On the third (figurative) day!
If you're talking about time and man made calendars, I suppose you know that:
- our calendar is different to the Jewish calendar
- our calendar once had 10 months, now it has 12
- our calendar changed in 1752 (ish) when 11 days were removed.

And as Jesus said "no one knows the day nor hour, not even the Son of Man", what makes you think that we can know that it will be on the "third day"?
If you asking whether we trust the words of God or the words of man (you), I'm with God on this. History is full of people who've - unsuccessfully - predicted the Lord's return and, at best, looked like complete idiots when it didn't happen. Some on these forums have given dates for the Lord's return, too.
I will ask you one final time. Do you believe the Word of God, or the wisdom of man?

With regards to the timing of the 2nd coming, I believe Jesus (God) who said "no one knows the day nor hour", rather than the wisdom of a human being who thinks they know the right time.

With regards to creation - both.
God made this world. He is the Creator, artist, author and so on; the beginning and the end.
He created man in his own image, and gives us gifts, curiosity, wisdom and the ability to explore, discover, learn etc. Some scientists are Christians. They do not see a conflict between Genesis and science; they can hold knowledge and faith and be comfortable with both.
I tend to agree with the late John Stott who said "the Bible tells us WHO made the world; science tells us HOW."
 
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The Hour IS AT HAND

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God created, but we are not told how he created.
Hello!
Thank you for your response, I must disagree with you though on several points. Firstly the Bible does tell us how God made everything.
Gen 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

God spoke, thats how everything was made.

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.


And as Jesus said "no one knows the day nor hour, not even the Son of Man", what makes you think that we can know that it will be on the "third day"?
Agreed, we do not know the hour or day of His return, however we are given many prophecies and are told these things so we know what to look for and so we are not deceived.

Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
Mat 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
Mat 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.


Daniel even gives us super specific things to look for so we will know, not when Christ will return, but in regards to the AoD.

Dan 8:12 And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.
Dan 8:13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?
Dan 8:14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

Lastly we must honestly consider what we are being told here...

1Cor 1:20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?

1Cor 3:18 Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.
1Cor 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.


 
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Diamond72

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I think we should trust the Bible and it's creation account as literal
I believe in a literal Bible. There are still many layers and levels of understanding. We are finite and God is infinite.
 
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Strong in Him

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Hello!
Thank you for your response, I must disagree with you though on several points. Firstly the Bible does tell us how God made everything.
Gen 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

God spoke, thats how everything was made.
No - things came into being when God spoke, but that still does not tell us HOW he made everything.
HOW did he form a man from dust and give him bones, teeth and hair? How did he decide what temperature our bodies should be or how much water and food we need to keep us alive?
HOW did God decide what animals to make? Whether to give them 2 legs or many, fur or feathers?
HOW did he decide whether they should live on land, sea of in the air? How did he make their intricate nervous, respiratory and reproductive systems?
HOW did he make the trees - as saplings, acorns or fully formed? If Adam had cut one of these trees down, would it have had any rings inside, showing its age?
HOW did he make the stars? How is it that they are many thousands of light years away? What about the sun, which is made up of many gases - HOW was that made?

The Bible is not a science textbook.
 
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dwb001

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No - things came into being when God spoke, but that still does not tell us HOW he made everything.
HOW did he form a man from dust and give him bones, teeth and hair? How did he decide what temperature our bodies should be or how much water and food we need to keep us alive?
HOW did God decide what animals to make? Whether to give them 2 legs or many, fur or feathers?
HOW did he decide whether they should live on land, sea of in the air? How did he make their intricate nervous, respiratory and reproductive systems?
HOW did he make the trees - as saplings, acorns or fully formed? If Adam had cut one of these trees down, would it have had any rings inside, showing its age?
HOW did he make the stars? How is it that they are many thousands of light years away? What about the sun, which is made up of many gases - HOW was that made?

The Bible is not a science textbook.
But a historical textbook.
So just trust the first hand eye witness account.
 
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Jipsah

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My son has a program that takes computer or machine language and translates it into English, so the Government can look to see what ingredients goes into food and drugs.
Seems like rather a pointless exercise. Just read the source code. Not sure it's the same as the executable? Compile it down a compare the versions.

practically is a growable programming language, a language design tool, a hyper-language and a philosophy of how to design software.
Yeah, I've seen a good many of those come and go. They all have the asets and liabilities.

π technically is a fully reflective dynamically both semantically and syntactically extensible programming language (thus a macro language, as well).
Syntax is always a matter of what the compiler can digest. "Semantic" the same. If the compiler can parse what the coder wrote and turn it into executable code, that's all that's neccesary.
 
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Jipsah

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If God had told Adam how everything works... it would be in Genesis.
So He didn't, then. Not a surprise, since He old Adam of the creation in a teaching story, which isn't intended to give exhaustive detail.
So you suppose Adam could not write.
So where is your proof for that?
None at all, but fortunately it's entirely irrelevant whether he could or not.
Just use the website to correct your typing.
Until you do it is not worth my time trying to figure out what you are saying
I don't think it's my typing that's the problem there.

If there is no reason that days are not connected a solar day... then there is less than no reason to believe they aren't.
Theyou shouldn't object either way. But the fact is that Creation Itself gives evidence of being very old indeed, to which your lot shouts "NO!" That's why some of your folks have gone so far as to assert thAT God intentionally made thing look old.
At the base minimum we have the description of days, evening and mornings.
Even when there was no sun.

So there is more reason to believe in a 6 24hr day creation then not.
Except even a casual observation of Creation itself.
 
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Jipsah

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But when it come to God's creation, science offers only lies.
So H2+O != H2O? Is it really H2SO4?

Is voltage != current x resistance? Is so, none of these computers should be working. Maybe it's a diabolical deception, you reckon?
I have not found one area of science that touches on God's creation that is truthful.
Which is to say that you've never studied any science at all.
 
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dwb001

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So He didn't, then. Not a surprise, since He old Adam of the creation in a teaching story, which isn't intended to give exhaustive detail.
Your sentence structure does not make sense.
Clarify or move on.

History never gives exhaustive detail.
None at all, but fortunately it's entirely irrelevant whether he could or not.
Then why did you bring it up?
You introduce a topic then say it is irrelevant.
I don't think it's my typing that's the problem there.
Whatever just fix the spelling.
Theyou shouldn't object either way. But the fact is that Creation Itself gives evidence of being very old indeed, to which your lot shouts "NO!" That's why some of your folks have gone so far as to assert thAT God intentionally made thing look old.
I am against the 'appearance of age' theory.
Please stop lumping people together and try to treat each person as an individual and not part of some collective that you have written off.
And there are many different rational answers other than "God mad it look old".
Even when there was no sun.
Yep.
Except even a casual observation of Creation itself.
You provide no proof for your position.
You are just spouting your opinion and hoping that it makes sense.
 
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Jipsah

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Your sentence structure does not make sense.
Ah, well let me see if I can ease the struggle for you, then. You said that God didn't gice Adam detail of Creatin, which I replied: "So He didn't, then." (I.E, I agreed with you.)
I then elaborated: "
Not a surprise, since He told Adam of the creation in a teaching story, which isn't intended to give exhaustive detail." I went over that sort of thing at wearisome length in my post about the Chicken & Corn analogy exkaining a serial port failure. Teaching stories don't include concepts the audience doesn't have any way of understanding. You're not getting detail in Genesis. Adam wouildn't have understood it, and neither can we!

There, sorted?

History never gives exhaustive detail.
I can give you the details of every movement of every unit from the the size of a platoon up on both sides of the Battle of Nashville. But if I was just teaching you about it, I wouldn't, as it would only serve to confuse you. (Spoiler Alert - the Yankees won.)
Then why did you bring it up?
The point was that it's a teaching story, not the technical treatise that you seem to believe it to be.

Whatever just fix the spelling.
I make no promises on that point.
I am against the 'appearance of age' theory.
I wou;d hope not, as it turns God Himself into a deceiver. Nasty

Please stop lumping people together and try to treat each person as an individual and not part of some collective that you have written off.
I'm sorry, but Flerfies have called down scorn upon themselves.
The Earth isn't flat.
Scripture doesn't say the Earth is flat.
Simple observation shows that the Earth isn't flat.
(Speaking of which, I've never gotten a single FLERFIE to even attempt to "explain" "long path propagation" It's there, it works, and if the earth was flat it could not possibly happen. All you need to try it is a cooperative HF HAM operator with some friends on the other side of the world (not unusual for HF operators) and get them to try it in your presense Won't always work, conditions have to be just-so, but when it works it works, and I've talked to Oz from Tennessee more than once on long path when short path was completely useless due to QRM

And there are many different rational answers other than "God mad it look old".
I didn't say that was a rational answer.
You provide no proof for your position.
You are just spouting your opinion and hoping that it makes sense.
I don't see any need to show proof that 2+2=4, either. It doesn't wotk that way. Spheroid Earth is the accepted truth. You prove it wrong.
 
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dwb001

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Ah, well let me see if I can ease the struggle for you, then. You said that God didn't gice Adam detail of Creatin, which I replied: "So He didn't, then." (I.E, I agreed with you.)
I then elaborated: "
Not a surprise, since He told Adam of the creation in a teaching story, which isn't intended to give exhaustive detail." I went over that sort of thing at wearisome length in my post about the Chicken & Corn analogy exkaining a serial port failure. Teaching stories don't include concepts the audience doesn't have any way of understanding. You're not getting detail in Genesis. Adam wouildn't have understood it, and neither can we!

There, sorted?
Too many spelling mistakes so your paragraph was not read.
I can give you the details of every movement of every unit from the the size of a platoon up on both sides of the Battle of Nashville. But if I was just teaching you about it, I wouldn't, as it would only serve to confuse you. (Spoiler Alert - the Yankees won.)

The point was that it's a teaching story, not the technical treatise that you seem to believe it to be.
That was your conclusion not mine.
Please stop putting your thought into my mouth... it tastes bad.
I make no promises on that point.
Yep.
I wou;d hope not, as it turns God Himself into a deceiver. Nasty
Spelling.

I'm sorry, but Flerfies have called down scorn upon themselves.
The Earth isn't flat.
Scripture doesn't say the Earth is flat.
Simple observation shows that the Earth isn't flat.
(Speaking of which, I've never gotten a single FLERFIE to even attempt to "explain" "long path propagation" It's there, it works, and if the earth was flat it could not possibly happen. All you need to try it is a cooperative HF HAM operator with some friends on the other side of the world (not unusual for HF operators) and get them to try it in your presense Won't always work, conditions have to be just-so, but when it works it works, and I've talked to Oz from Tennessee more than once on long path when short path was completely useless due to QRM
Spelling... and you don't appear to be talking to me but just venting.
I didn't say that was a rational answer.
Neither did I... I said there are rational answers that address the appearance of age.
I don't see any need to show proof that 2+2=4, either. It doesn't wotk that way. Spheroid Earth is the accepted truth. You prove it wrong.
Spelling.
And I agree with the ball Earth. Why would you think I don't?
 
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d taylor

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So H2+O != H2O? Is it really H2SO4?

Is voltage != current x resistance? Is so, none of these computers should be working. Maybe it's a diabolical deception, you reckon?

Which is to say that you've never studied any science at all.
-
Science is still lying about God's creation, will till satan is locked away.
 
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Jipsah

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