Do you carry a firearm in church?

[RDKirk]

Cutting a man's life short before he might accept Christ is too terrible to comprehend.

I should add- a number of the responses talk about guns being for "personal defense". While there are, I am sure, many who carry for this reason, that is not why I would carry. I would carry it to defend the congregation. If a person comes and kills me, so be it. But if a crazy white kid goes to shoot up a church because they have black members...? No. That is why I want to carry. To defend those who cannot defend themselves.

And that is where I am. I am mindful of what I call the Nate Saint Consideration: "I am prepared to meet my Maker; they are not."

And Nate Saint proves the point. He refused to kill in his own self-defense, and his son successful carried the gospel to the man who killed his father. That's a win-win for Jesus.

However, while I'm prepared to meet my Maker, I can't make that presumption for others around me, even if they're sitting in church pews. They need their opportunity, and if this fallen world places me in the unfortunate position of having to weigh one man's chance to repent against several others, I will protect those others' chance to repent.

 

[Clovis Man]

I have spoken with several people in the past, who espoused the idea that, unless lives were at stake, they would simply draw their pistol and watch a crime, say a robbery for instance. Unless the bad guy started to hurt somebody, in which case the bad guy would get shot. But for a simple robbery, they would let the bad guy go, simply for the reason mentioned above.

I've thought that in the past, but I have to admit it would be terribly difficult to do that.

I need to add, in case it wasn't obvious enough, that I won't let a bad guy hurt people.

 

[Darkhorse]

Unless the bad guy started to hurt somebody, in which case the bad guy would get shot. But for a simple robbery, they would let the bad guy go, simply for the reason mentioned above.

I've thought that in the past, but I have to admit it would be terribly difficult to do that.

It would be impossible to know when a situation is changing from "threat" to "violent" until the violence actually happens. I remember seeing security-camera footage of a bank robbery years ago. The robber pointed a shotgun at the bank clerk, who was standing still facing him. A couple of seconds later, he shot her. She did nothing to provoke it or escalate it.

 

[GeorgeJ]

It would be impossible to know when a situation is changing from "threat" to "violent" until the violence actually happens. I remember seeing security-camera footage of a bank robbery years ago. The robber pointed a shotgun at the bank clerk, who was standing still facing him. A couple of seconds later, he shot her. She did nothing to provoke it or escalate it.

I was taught that I should never point a gun at another man unless I fully intended to pull the trigger.....

I will assume that anyone who points a gun at me or another innocent person was taught the same thing and would reply in kind...

 

[jimmyjimmy]

I have spoken with several people in the past, who espoused the idea that, unless lives were at stake, they would simply draw their pistol and watch a crime, say a robbery for instance. Unless the bad guy started to hurt somebody, in which case the bad guy would get shot. But for a simple robbery, they would let the bad guy go, simply for the reason mentioned above.

I've thought that in the past, but I have to admit it would be terribly difficult to do that.

That's a good idea. The use of deadly force should be reserved for life and death situations, not to protect the silverware. Having said that, if the person is armed, they are dead, if I have them in my sights.

 

[marineimaging]

Dont you worry that you have a societal problem if its people feel that have to load up weapons when they go to church?

I have no problem with our society. What I have a problem with is the criminal mind that has no barriers, no civility, no honor, no love, no constraints..., nothing but a lot of hate and the desire to destroy that which we have built.

 

[marineimaging]

That's a good idea. The use of deadly force should be reserved for life and death situations, not to protect the silverware. Having said that, if the person is armed, they are dead, if I have them in my sights.

A person who walks into a legal establishment with a gun in their hand and the intention of robbing it has thrown away all of their rights to civility and respect. They made their decision LONG before they arrived and it was to trade life and liberty for material possessions, or for political or religions domination. Be it in church, a business, or a C-Store I have no way of knowing what they intend to do but the law has already been laid down and allows me to do something to stop them. I would not chase them down the street shooting at them. That is just crazy. But if they are showing a gun and threatening to take innocent life they had to know that at some point they would become a target of a policeman or a citizen legally carrying.

 

[lsume]

With the current threat in the national news of the domestic terrorist from Wisconsin threatening to target churches and schools, was wondering if you carry a firearm in church.

I used to go to a Baptist church in Idaho in which the preacher always had a little Glock 26 concealed on him, even when preaching. He said it was well within Biblical teaching to do so.

I never felt particularly threatened in church and just wasn't comfortable carrying a firearm while worshipping, so I didn't.

A few months ago, a local pastor was gunned down by a crazy guy during services.

And since the election, tensions have increased between the two political sides as noted by the previously mentioned person.

I think it is prudent to be prepared against evil men, but I do not begrudge anyone who feels differently as I likely felt the same just a short time ago.

*Edited the post to remove any language that may be construed as inflammatory towards a certain political ideology.

No, I never carry a concealed weapon. Though I have my concealed weapons carry permit, I never carry. I only have the permit for when I’m carrying my suppressors often called silencers. By law, I must carry each license for each suppressor whenever they are in my possession. This subject is a very personal one and each person must deal with the subject in his/her own way. I do not believe that any personal monetary possession is worth the life of whomever desires that type of possession at the risk of life or limb. However, if someone’s life is in danger, that is an entirely different subject. If an innocents life is threatened, that is when I would shoot to kill. Some years ago, a very public rape occurred in our upscale subdivision. The poor woman that was raped was also pistol whipped to nearly death and required multiple plastic surgeries to repair the damage inflicted on her. Thank God that some years later, the predator that committed that heinous crime was apprehended in another state by DNA analysis. Using a firearm to prevent that type of crime is clean Spiritually in my heart. As to carrying in a church, I do not. However, I strongly support the right to carry by a legally empowered individual to do so. If an evil person has the intent to physically harm or kill someone in attendance, I would be thankful for a legally licensed individual to stop that evil intent by any means possible. I am handicapped and not physically able to stop that type of threat any other way than with a firearm. However, I have never considered carrying a firearm into church. I assume today that there is probably someone in attendance that is carrying. Does that make me feel safer? Honestly I don’t think about it. I strongly believe in the second amendment.

 

[Newtheran]

Can I ask - and please understand that I ask this respectfully and with no judgement intended - how does this (what seems to be a perceived) need to watch everyone around you, impact your ability to worship?

Doesn't affect it at all. You'll be surprised how little attention it takes to keep your finger on the pulse of a place with which you are familiar. Furthermore, if a bad guy enters the church and draws, I and my concealed weapon have the element of surprise.

 

[Newtheran]

It's against the law in my state. I plan to keep it that way.

It's a poor shepherd who sides with wolves against his flock.

 

[marineimaging]

That's a good idea. The use of deadly force should be reserved for life and death situations, not to protect the silverware. Having said that, if the person is armed, they are dead, if I have them in my sights.

That used to be a good idea. But do a little bit of research on how many people were shot and killed by a robber after they gave up the money or goods? If you are a good person you cannot imagine what goes through the mind of a person who has decided to pick up a gun and go into a church to rob or kill. How long did it take them to get there and how many times could they have stopped and turned around? To get to that point were they were standing at the door, ready to go or stop..., and they go. Do you think the Holy Spirit did not wear on their mind and do you think they did not reject the voice of goodness? Be it a school with innocent children, or a church with innocent people bowing their heads and praying to God..., this person who decided to pick up a gun and do this deed is mentally, spiritually, soulfully, physically broken. The time for help has passed. The time to stop him or her is up to them. Yes, them, not you. Personally, if the person has a gun in their hand committing a robbery I do not know if they have the will or intention of actually pulling the trigger, but I know they have the ability to pull the trigger and kill someones wife or son or father or mother..., and that is enough to say that my decision was made the day I took my CHL license in hand and the day it converged with that broken person decided to bring his or her venom into our midst.

 

[now faith]

What mercy would a Man bold enough to walk into God's house and kill people have?
The Shepherd had a staff with a point to fend of Wolves and a hook to rescue the fallen sheep.
Personally it's nice to know a off duty police officer or ex navy seal is watching the only way into our church.
This is our world today you may hear a loud explosion behind you.
That is if your life is preserved by those who are called to serve and protect.

 

[now faith]

We do not encourage people to pack in Church.
That's how your members get hit with friendly fire.
We have video cam on outside and trained people on inside.
What the Pastor has is his business, but there was a group of our men who went to a tactical training seminar.
Lol our Church is just a bunch of country folks from a small farm town in Florida.

 

[Newtheran]

The other thing to remember here is that altough much of the discussion has centered around a criminal or deranged person attacking a congregation, that we are very much in the middle of a global Islamic jihad and that Christian churches have always been and continue to be prime targets for Muslims.

ISIS TARGET CHURCHES: Experts issue warning Christian places of worship are NEXT

ISIS Claims Second Deadly Attack of the Weekend

Egypt: Isis claims responsibility for Coptic church bombings

Pakistan Church Attacked by 2 Suicide Bombers

ISIS sympathizers publish target list of churches in all 50 states: Reports

 

[marineimaging]

I would be interested in seeing scripture that tells us what to do as a Christian if a person enters a church or school, addresses innocent people, widows, old men, and or children, and does so in a manner that seems obvious that the intention is to make them a hostage to fear and/or to eventually kill them.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

The other thing to remember here is that altough much of the discussion has centered around a criminal or deranged person attacking a congregation, that we are very much in the middle of a global Islamic jihad and that Christian churches have always been and continue to be prime targets for Muslims.

ISIS TARGET CHURCHES: Experts issue warning Christian places of worship are NEXT

ISIS Claims Second Deadly Attack of the Weekend

Egypt: Isis claims responsibility for Coptic church bombings

Pakistan Church Attacked by 2 Suicide Bombers

ISIS sympathizers publish target list of churches in all 50 states: Reports

Interesting. I say that because the last three times that there have been threats made against my house of worship and the reason that our operating expenses have jumped by almost $150,000.00 a year to pay for armed security to protect the congregation and kids that attend the religious school, the parties involved were not Muslims.

 

[marineimaging]

Interesting. I say that because the last three times that there have been threats made against my house of worship and the reason that our operating expenses have jumped by almost $150,000.00 a year to pay for armed security to protect the congregation and kids that attend the religious school, the parties involved were not Muslims.

Well, we have failures that go way beyond worrying about whether the threat comes from a religious jihadist or a disgruntled worker, or disillusioned member of the church. The Air Force has acknowledged that it did not send required records to the FBI in the court martial of Devin Kelley in Sutherland Springs, Texas. Such a notification would have barred him from legally buying the weapon used in the attack. In fact, the military failed to notify the FBI 601 times. So much for the government protecting innocents. But seriously, our God does have a say in what we do, in our protection, in our eternal lives so I don't fear dying myself. But having been bedded in a hospital for weeks and spending over a year recovering afterwards I don't want to go through the pain or loss that comes from an injury that could have been avoided. I can't think of a time when you might be most distracted and unable to respond quickly than when your head is bowed and you are in serious prayer time in the sanctuary. That is when I am most vulnerable for sure. Just as is a lot of the people in my church and at that time, it doesn't matter what the status of the person is, what their mission of hate is, the end result is the same for those who die in prayer. So, if I can thwart Satan's mission, no matter who his minion is, I am going to do my best.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

Well, we have failures that go way beyond worrying about whether the threat comes from a religious jihadist or a disgruntled worker, or disillusioned member of the church. The Air Force has acknowledged that it did not send required records to the FBI in the court martial of Devin Kelley in Sutherland Springs, Texas. Such a notification would have barred him from legally buying the weapon used in the attack. In fact, the military failed to notify the FBI 601 times. So much for the government protecting innocents. But seriously, our God does have a say in what we do, in our protection, in our eternal lives so I don't fear dying myself. But having been bedded in a hospital for weeks and spending over a year recovering afterwards I don't want to go through the pain or loss that comes from an injury that could have been avoided. I can't think of a time when you might be most distracted and unable to respond quickly than when your head is bowed and you are in serious prayer time in the sanctuary. That is when I am most vulnerable for sure. Just as is a lot of the people in my church and at that time, it doesn't matter what the status of the person is, what their mission of hate is, the end result is the same for those who die in prayer. So, if I can thwart Satan's mission, no matter who his minion is, I am going to do my best.

I agree, churches face more legitimate threats from home grown sources that are probably fitting in just fine in the community instead of some foreign ISIS threat. And as you pointed out with Devin Kelley, who attended church and helped with Vacation Bible School for a time in Kingsville, TX, a potential church shooter could even be in the congregation.

 

[Clovis Man]

I can't think of a time when you might be most distracted and unable to respond quickly than when your head is bowed and you are in serious prayer time in the sanctuary. That is when I am most vulnerable for sure.

Time for an admission on my part -- when I am at the back of the nave, watching the doors, I never close my eyes, other than blinking. At least one person (me) is guarding over the others, and not in such a vulnerable position.

 

[Newtheran]

I would be interested in seeing scripture that tells us what to do as a Christian if a person enters a church or school, addresses innocent people, widows, old men, and or children, and does so in a manner that seems obvious that the intention is to make them a hostage to fear and/or to eventually kill them.

"And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing. Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."

Luke 22:35-36

"But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer."

Romans 13:4