Do you carry a firearm in church?

Do you carry a firearm in church?

  • Nope. Against my religious beliefs.

    Votes: 14 13.6%
  • Yes.

    Votes: 44 42.7%
  • Nope. I don't think there is a need and/or just not comfortable with the idea.

    Votes: 45 43.7%

  • Total voters
    103

jimmyjimmy

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It's against the law in my state. I plan to keep it that way.

In Jesus' Holy Name

Amen

Which state is that? NY, MA? The Constitution of the US gives its citizens the right to arm themselves, so it should not be illegal in any state.

How are you in a position to "keep it that way"?
 
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Pastor Jay Randolph

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I grew up in a family with firearms, so I was fairly educated with firearms. After serving in the military, a firearm just felt like a part of my body. When I got out of the service I did not feel like there was a need for me to carry a firearm. Over the years that feeling has changed. However, Charleston, SC was a very safe City. besides I almost always hung around Christian people and places. Then, a nut case goes into one of the Charleston Churches I have visited and shoots up the place killing the Minister and several people.
I am responsible for all who comes to my service. So I purchased a 9mm Glock. I know I can hit center of target at 50 yards, because 3 times a year I go to the range with 100 rounds to prove it to myself. I pray, I will never have to pull my Glock out anywhere but the range and at home. But if there is ever a threat, God knows I will fire as soon as I aguie my target. Do NOT bring hate, to a church.
 
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It is estimated that law abiding citizens defend themselves using guns
over one million times a year. Without personal firearms, there would
be over one million more victims per year

This is why I defend the brothers and sisters of our Lord Jesus Christ


Genesis 9:5-6 (KJV)

5 And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will

I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I

require the life of man.

6 Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God

made he man.


1 Corinthians 6:19-20 (KJV)

19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you,

which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your

spirit, which are God's.


Psalm 82:4 (KJV)

4 Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked.


Nehemiah 4:17-23 (KJV)

17 They which builded on the wall, and they that bare burdens, with those that laded,

every one with one of his hands wrought in the work, and with the other hand held a

weapon.

18 For the builders, every one had his sword girded by his side, and so builded. And

he that sounded the trumpet was by me.

19 And I said unto the nobles, and to the rulers, and to the rest of the people, The

work is great and large, and we are separated upon the wall, one far from another.

20 In what place therefore ye hear the sound of the trumpet, resort ye thither unto

us: our God shall fight for us.

21 So we laboured in the work: and half of them held the spears from the rising of

the morning till the stars appeared.

22 Likewise at the same time said I unto the people, Let every one with his servant

lodge within Jerusalem, that in the night they may be a guard to us, and labour on

the day.

23 So neither I, nor my brethren, nor my servants, nor the men of the guard which

followed me, none of us put off our clothes, saving that every one put them off for

washing.


Proverbs 24:11 (KJV)

11 If thou forbear to deliver them that are drawn unto death, and those that are

ready to be slain;


Ezekiel 33 (KJV)

33 Again the word of the Lord came unto me, saying,

2 Son of man, speak to the children of thy people, and say unto them, When I bring

the sword upon a land, if the people of the land take a man of their coasts, and set

him for their watchman:

3 If when he seeth the sword come upon the land, he blow the trumpet, and warn the

people;

4 Then whosoever heareth the sound of the trumpet, and taketh not warning; if the

sword come, and take him away, his blood shall be upon his own head.

5 He heard the sound of the trumpet, and took not warning; his blood shall be upon

him. But he that taketh warning shall deliver his soul.

6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the trumpet, and the people be

not warned; if the sword come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away

in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

7 So thou, O son of man, I have set thee a watchman unto the house of Israel;

therefore thou shalt hear the word at my mouth, and warn them from me.

8 When I say unto the wicked, O wicked man, thou shalt surely die; if thou dost not

speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but

his blood will I require at thine hand.

9 Nevertheless, if thou warn the wicked of his way to turn from it; if he do not turn

from his way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.

10 Therefore, O thou son of man, speak unto the house of Israel; Thus ye speak,

saying, If our transgressions and our sins be upon us, and we pine away in them, how

should we then live?

11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of

the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from

your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

12 Therefore, thou son of man, say unto the children of thy people, The righteousness

of the righteous shall not deliver him in the day of his transgression: as for the

wickedness of the wicked, he shall not fall thereby in the day that he turneth from

his wickedness; neither shall the righteous be able to live for his righteousness in

the day that he sinneth.

13 When I shall say to the righteous, that he shall surely live; if he trust to his

own righteousness, and commit iniquity, all his righteousnesses shall not be

remembered; but for his iniquity that he hath committed, he shall die for it.

14 Again, when I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; if he turn from his sin,

and do that which is lawful and right;

15 If the wicked restore the pledge, give again that he had robbed, walk in the

statutes of life, without committing iniquity; he shall surely live, he shall not

die.

16 None of his sins that he hath committed shall be mentioned unto him: he hath done

that which is lawful and right; he shall surely live.

17 Yet the children of thy people say, The way of the Lord is not equal: but as for

them, their way is not equal.

18 When the righteous turneth from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, he

shall even die thereby.

19 But if the wicked turn from his wickedness, and do that which is lawful and right,

he shall live thereby.

20 Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. O ye house of Israel, I will judge

you every one after his ways.

21 And it came to pass in the twelfth year of our captivity, in the tenth month, in

the fifth day of the month, that one that had escaped out of Jerusalem came unto me,

saying, The city is smitten.

22 Now the hand of the Lord was upon me in the evening, afore he that was escaped

came; and had opened my mouth, until he came to me in the morning; and my mouth was

opened, and I was no more dumb.

23 Then the word of the Lord came unto me, saying,

24 Son of man, they that inhabit those wastes of the land of Israel speak, saying,

Abraham was one, and he inherited the land: but we are many; the land is given us for

inheritance.

25 Wherefore say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Ye eat with the blood, and lift

up your eyes toward your idols, and shed blood: and shall ye possess the land?

26 Ye stand upon your sword, ye work abomination, and ye defile every one his

neighbour's wife: and shall ye possess the land?

27 Say thou thus unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; As I live, surely they that are

in the wastes shall fall by the sword, and him that is in the open field will I give

to the beasts to be devoured, and they that be in the forts and in the caves shall

die of the pestilence.

28 For I will lay the land most desolate, and the pomp of her strength shall cease;

and the mountains of Israel shall be desolate, that none shall pass through.

29 Then shall they know that I am the Lord, when I have laid the land most desolate

because of all their abominations which they have committed.

30 Also, thou son of man, the children of thy people still are talking against thee

by the walls and in the doors of the houses, and speak one to another, every one to

his brother, saying, Come, I pray you, and hear what is the word that cometh forth

from the Lord.

31 And they come unto thee as the people cometh, and they sit before thee as my

people, and they hear thy words, but they will not do them: for with their mouth they

shew much love, but their heart goeth after their covetousness.

32 And, lo, thou art unto them as a very lovely song of one that hath a pleasant

voice, and can play well on an instrument: for they hear thy words, but they do them

not.

33 And when this cometh to pass, (lo, it will come,) then shall they know that a

prophet hath been among them.


Being Armed
Luke 22:35-39 (KJV)

35 And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked

ye any thing? And they said, Nothing.

36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and

likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

37 For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And

he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end.

38 And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is

enough.

39 And he came out, and went, as he was wont, to the mount of Olives; and his

disciples also followed him.


Their weapons were swords and spears, today it is firearms.

Not for revenge, or judgement, but for protection
 
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381465

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One person most likely could not adequately protect and defend a group.
The plan for risk assessment and quick response is redundancy from different locations in anticipation of threat from different points of entry. Those entry points will become points of egress in an emergency.
 
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ldonjohn

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My wife and I attend a church of about 600 in north Texas. We have several law enforcement officers who are members of our church, and they head a group called "Gatekeepers." The gatekeepers have teams that are made up of other church members with one law enforcement officer as head of that team. Each team is the "guard" team one Sunday per month. The team members do not carry on the Sunday they are "on guard." I know that doesn't make sense, but it is some kind of insurance & liability thing. Those team members who are not on guard duty may carry and I have been told that many of them do carry every Sunday that they are not on duty. Also, many other church members carry every Sunday.
Our church sits outside of town on an interstate highway & we would be an easy target for a shooter or shooters to hit. And, no, we do not worry about one of our own church members shooting other church members; it should be obvious to most intelligent people where the threat lies.

John
 
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RDKirk

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My wife and I attend a church of about 600 in north Texas. We have several law enforcement officers who are members of our church, and they head a group called "Gatekeepers." The gatekeepers have teams that are made up of other church members with one law enforcement officer as head of that team. Each team is the "guard" team one Sunday per month. The team members do not carry on the Sunday they are "on guard." I know that doesn't make sense, but it is some kind of insurance & liability thing. Those team members who are not on guard duty may carry and I have been told that many of them do carry every Sunday that they are not on duty. Also, many other church members carry every Sunday.
Our church sits outside of town on an interstate highway & we would be an easy target for a shooter or shooters to hit. And, no, we do not worry about one of our own church members shooting other church members; it should be obvious to most intelligent people where the threat lies.

John

In our north Texas church, uniformed police (off duty, hired) as well as our Men of Valor ministry. I know some carry concealed weapons, but I don't believe all do. But they patrol the buildings and the grounds during every meeting, they are in continuous radio contact with each other, they have frequent exercises and training to be able to respond to emergencies in a coordinated manner.

When a member in this ministry is not serving, he's worshipping. When he's serving, he's not worshipping, he's watching.
 
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I have always carried in church. I also watch for indicators of agitation, looking nervous around the room, possibly selecting a target person or area, moving around during the sermon. I watch the doors for any unusual activity including fast moving shadows, noise, changes in air.

Can I ask - and please understand that I ask this respectfully and with no judgement intended - how does this (what seems to be a perceived) need to watch everyone around you, impact your ability to worship?

Isn't one of the primary reasons for attending church to join in with corporate worship where as a body of believers we focus on the Lord? If you are focusing on what is going on around you and looking for such indicators or agitation, nervousness in others etc, how are you able to truly focus on the Lord or to fully immerse in the worship?

Let me place into a little context. I am from Ireland and we do not have (or perhaps I should say do not yet have) such a gun comfortable culture. So the whole thing is, admittedly, perhaps alien to me. But as the Lead Audio Visual Engineer for the church that I attend my focus is obviously on the role that I am undertaking. And I find it so very difficult to fully focus on the Lord.

Many thanks.
 
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381465

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That is an awesome question.

I view the sacrifice of "working" during service as service to the Lord.
I would love for more people to volunteer to rotate duties during church (Sunday school, nursery, security, AV, etc.).
Not many want to contribute behind the scenes, they want participate in worship.

Many hands make light work.
 
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Clovis Man

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That is an awesome question.

I view the sacrifice of "working" during service as service to the Lord.
I would love for more people to volunteer to rotate duties during church (Sunday school, nursery, security, AV, etc.).
Not many want to contribute behind the scenes, they want participate in worship.

Many hands make light work.

Right you are!

One can look at the role of "guard" or "sentry" or "protector" as service to the Lord.

Our congregation is so small that I'm not concerned that any of them will become a problem. Rather, I watch the front door to see who is coming in next. It hasn't been too long ago that two different churches, both within the state of New Mexico, were bombed. So yes, we look around the area outside, too.

I look at my concealed pistol as being for the protection of me and my family. It's just that my family gets quite a bit larger during church services. I feel as one person posted earlier, I DON'T want to shoot anyone and "punch their ticket" to eternity without Jesus, but I likewise won't let them harm my family, either.
 
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grandvizier1006

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Can I ask - and please understand that I ask this respectfully and with no judgement intended - how does this (what seems to be a perceived) need to watch everyone around you, impact your ability to worship?

Isn't one of the primary reasons for attending church to join in with corporate worship where as a body of believers we focus on the Lord? If you are focusing on what is going on around you and looking for such indicators or agitation, nervousness in others etc, how are you able to truly focus on the Lord or to fully immerse in the worship?

Let me place into a little context. I am from Ireland and we do not have (or perhaps I should say do not yet have) such a gun comfortable culture. So the whole thing is, admittedly, perhaps alien to me. But as the Lead Audio Visual Engineer for the church that I attend my focus is obviously on the role that I am undertaking. And I find it so very difficult to fully focus on the Lord.

Many thanks.
I think it's mainly a cultural thing. I can't answer for the people here but I'm from the southern US, where this "gun culture" is prevalent. Even so I've never seen a gun in a church setting, concealed or open. It depends on the values of the people. Rural America, for example, (or where I live it's a place that is urbanizing but was rural for generations) was more "untamed", and this led to a need to protect yourself from wild animals and sometimes just bad people. Law enforcement meant was harder to come by. europe, by contrast, was urban much longer than America. There are still places with hardly any people in them.

Even though those rural south areas are not necessarily rural today, the gun culture that sprung forth from previous conditions remains.

Some of what European Christians do surprises me--I don't understand why so many of them support gay marriage, for example (more in other parts of Europe than Ireland). It's all different perspectives--what's outrageous to one believer is seen as necessary to another. But in any case it's more shaped by cultural values more than we may care to admit. I personally don't like the idea of one's local culture dictating a person's values because as Christians we should have unity in our beliefs, but that's just how things are sometimes.
 
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Servant68

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I believe the question of whether or not carrying a weapon in church affects your quality of worship is a valid concern.

When I am carrying, I feel an increased sense of responsibility to be aware of my surroundings. Focusing on the sermon and my commune with God is comprised. But that's just me.

Interesting point...
 
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Darkhorse

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I think it's mainly a cultural thing. I can't answer for the people here but I'm from the southern US, where this "gun culture" is prevalent. Even so I've never seen a gun in a church setting, concealed or open. It depends on the values of the people. Rural America, for example, (or where I live it's a place that is urbanizing but was rural for generations) was more "untamed", and this led to a need to protect yourself from wild animals and sometimes just bad people.

Believe it or not, in colonial times Virginians were required by law to bring their guns to church, to be ready for Indian (Native American) attacks...

Which seems strange now, given the peaceful co-existence of Indians with other Virginians in modern life.
 
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RDKirk

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I believe the question of whether or not carrying a weapon in church affects your quality of worship is a valid concern.

When I am carrying, I feel an increased sense of responsibility to be aware of my surroundings. Focusing on the sermon and my commune with God is comprised. But that's just me.

Interesting point...

I've said that earlier it this or the other ongoing thread. If one is armed and purporting to be acting as a protector, that absolutely requires being continuously in what we call Condition Yellow--essentially, actively being a guard and watchman.

Yes, that does preclude being in the concentration one should have in worship, in communion, in praise.

That's why I prefer what my congregation does, having a specific security ministry of men (our Men of Valor) who are trained for coordinated emergency responses of all kinds. In the services they are on duty, they are on duty; when they are not on duty, they are worshiping.
 
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grandvizier1006

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The idea of a trained security staff is more appealing to me than numerous worshipped having guns concealed somewhere. But I guess that's not an option for everyone who feels the need for someone in the church to be armed.
 
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ftw1029

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Yes, I make a point of carrying every week because I know I am the only person who does so, although I think my dad is going to start carrying also. There have been a fair number of church shootings across the country (1 is too many), so we feel the ability to react is desirable. I also make the deposit of the offering, so that's the second reason I carry. As far as trusting God, I do. If he wants me to defend myself and others in the church from a threat, then I will be successful. If he does not want me to, I will not be successful. The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away; blessed be the name of the Lord.
 
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I think it's mainly a cultural thing. I can't answer for the people here but I'm from the southern US, where this "gun culture" is prevalent.

Many thanks for replying,

I think you are right when you say it is mainly a cultural thing and certainly I understand that.

And I can also understand your statement, "But in any case it's more shaped by cultural values more than we may care to admit." And I think that sometimes that is because sometimes something is such a part of our culture that we simply don't question it.

And in many ways I can understand (and to some degree agree with) your sentiment, that you "personally don't like the idea of one's local culture dictating a person's values because as Christians we should have unity in our beliefs, but that's just how things are sometimes." But as I said above, sometimes something is such a part of our culture that we simply don't question it. And additionally, I think that our very understanding of God's word is to one degree or another so often shaped by our cultures.

And in these situations doesn't it often take an influence from without that culture - be it someone from another culture or the conviction of the Holy Spirit - to challenge these things and to bring them into line with God's will? Indeed hasn't that so very clearly happened even in the historical events recorded within the bible?

In respect of your statement that, "Some of what European Christians do" surprising you and your not understanding why "so many of them support gay marriage, for example (more in other parts of Europe than Ireland)." All I can say is that as a Christian who was born and raised and who still lives in Europe, that surprises and confuses the heck out of me too. LOL But again you are right when you say that sometimes, "It's all different perspectives--what's outrageous to one believer is seen as necessary to another."

Again, many thanks for replying. :)
 
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That is an awesome question.

I view the sacrifice of "working" during service as service to the Lord.
I would love for more people to volunteer to rotate duties during church (Sunday school, nursery, security, AV, etc.).
Not many want to contribute behind the scenes, they want participate in worship.

Many hands make light work.

Hi.

Many thanks for replying. I agree with you that what we do during the service is a service to the Lord and indeed to the body of believers which makes up that church. And like you I would also "love for more people to volunteer to rotate duties during church."
 
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