the proverbial "relationship with God", i.e. mystical experienceWhat's this "direct access to God" supposed to mean?
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the proverbial "relationship with God", i.e. mystical experienceWhat's this "direct access to God" supposed to mean?
But the proverbial "relationship with God" does not mean that we can know all things by holding a conversation with him. "Direct access" is the way you put in in that post.the proverbial "relationship with God", i.e. mystical experience
The so-called harshness is just in your thoughts - when you or anyone does disobey God, you or anyone will suffer, sometimes harshly, even perish, unless you or they repent - God is not prejudiced and does not show favor to anyone.@yeshuaslavejeff , I am talking about post #94. If I replaced "A pagan god(s)" with "The Christian God" in your statement then I would violate CF rules. I wanted to highlight the harshness of your post by asking you to imagine how you would feel if you were the pagan or if your statement criticized the Christian God. The harshness isn't helping you win souls IMO.
I did not have any question about any pagan god.The criticism you wrote of the pagan gods was not a question, so if I rephrase your criticism to make it apply to the Christian God then it will not be a question either. So what is it that you want me to ask and find out?
False gods destroy souls.The harshness isn't helping you win souls IMO.
I like one translation of what Jesus said: "Turn to Yahuweh, for His Kingdom is now at hand" compare to "repent!... ... ... " ...
Turn to Yahuweh seemed to me to be more uplifting - oh, it totally includes even devastating sorrow and grief for sin, and repenting - turning AWAY from sin, yes....
yet
so POSITIVELY LIFE CHANGING >>> TURN TO THE CREATOR! HE IS HERE ! HALLELUYAH!
By what authority, may I ask? I find the word "fastenings" nowhere in my search for definitions of Strong's H1099. Nor in relation to Job 26:7 itself.The reading supported by the Bible for Job 26:7 is
The Hebrew is —
neteh tsephoon ol tehoo tehleh arets ol belimeh,
The proper translation of which is:
"He spreadeth out the North over the desolate' place (the abyss of waters), and supporteth the Earth upon fastenings (foundations) ."
Let's say God takes me to the 7th heaven and shows me that the Book of Revelation is uninspired, ludicrous, and never should have been included in the Biblical canon. Then I would be faced with a choice between trusting the inspiration of the council that defined the Biblical canon or trusting my own inspiration. To be honest, if the experience seemed real and profound to me then I might give more weight to my own inspiration - at least I know what I experienced and I don't know what an ancient council of bishops experienced when they declared Revelation canonical.But the proverbial "relationship with God" does not mean that we can know all things by holding a conversation with him. "Direct access" is the way you put in in that post.
The "relationship with God" phrase refers to our standing with God.
Let's say God takes me to the 7th heaven and shows me that the Book of Revelation is uninspired, ludicrous, and never should have been included in the Biblical canon. Then I would be faced with a choice between trusting the inspiration of the council that defined the Biblical canon or trusting my own inspiration. To be honest, if the experience seemed real and profound to me then I might give more weight to my own inspiration - at least I know what I experienced and I don't know what an ancient council of bishops experienced when they declared Revelation canonical.
Except that that doesn't do anything for anyone else, so it is not the way to find out if God is real, which is the true god, if the Bible is credible, or any of that.Let's say God takes me to the 7th heaven and shows me that the Book of Revelation is uninspired, ludicrous, and never should have been included in the Biblical canon. Then I would be faced with a choice between trusting the inspiration of the council that defined the Biblical canon or trusting my own inspiration. To be honest, if the experience seemed real and profound to me then I might give more weight to my own inspiration - at least I know what I experienced and I don't know what an ancient council of bishops experienced when they declared Revelation canonical.
.____________________________________.By what authority, may I ask? I find the word "fastenings" nowhere in my search for definitions of Strong's H1099. Nor in relation to Job 26:7 itself.
IF you are seeking the truth, the time is long passed to know and to realize that Yahuweh does not contradict Himself like that.Let's say God takes me to the 7th heaven and shows me that the Book of Revelation is uninspired,
Theological hobby horsemanship. Utter, thread-derailing rubbishtishtishtish..____________________________________.
From Terra Firma: David Wardlaw Scott
The Hebrew word teleh means to hang, suspend, or support by actual contact.
Examples: Genesis 40:19, Psalms 137:2,
Ezekiel 15:3
belimeh wrongly translated "nothing" is the crucial word. translators appear to have derived it from the noun blee, signifying consumption or desolation, and the pronoun meh, who which what, but the meaning "nothing" drawn from these words, seems to be very far fetched. Hebrew is a very ancient language, to all probability the most ancient of any, and this being the only place in the Bible where the word belimeh occurs, it is, of course, difficult to test the meaning. I have myself, however, not the slightest doubt, that Parkhurst is right in deriving the noun belimeh from the verb belem, to confine, restrain, or hold in, so used in
Psalm 32:9 Do not be like the horse or like the mule, Which have no understanding, Which must be harnessed(belem) with bit and bridle, Else they will not come near you.
and that belimeh simply means "fastenings," or "supports," and this interpretation exactly agrees with what God asked Job a little farther on in Job 38:6 To what were its foundations fastened?
Or who laid its cornerstone, But while I consider Parkhurst to be correct as to the rendering of the word belimeh, I believe him to be wrong as to the strange application of it which he makes.
.____________________________________.
The Bible several times states the earth is set on foundations. Never is it stated in the Bible except in the wrongly translated Job 26:7 the earth hangs on nothing. That idea has been imported into the Bible from science.
I think you missed the point. I'm not advocating that @Albion should trust @cloudyday2 rather than trusting the Bible. I'm advocating that @Albion should trust @Albion rather than trusting the Bible. Of course the Bible is not completely worthless. Presumably the Bible records the mystical experiences and insights of others, but those experiences are not as trustworthy as your own experiences in most cases.Except that that doesn't do anything for anyone else, so it is not the way to find out if God is real, which is the true god, if the Bible is credible, or any of that.
And that scenario is completely fictional, so it isn't a real answer anyway.
I cannot say as this advances the discussion in any way. A few posts ago, I was reading about a "relationship with God" and the importance of a "direct access" to God. What "direct access" that we should rely upon to tell us the truth of God would that be, I wondered.I think you missed the point. I'm not advocating that @Albion should trust @cloudyday2 rather than trusting the Bible. I'm advocating that @Albion should trust @Albion rather than trusting the Bible. Of course the Bible is not completely worthless. Presumably the Bible records the mystical experiences and insights of others, but those experiences are not as trustworthy as your own experiences in most cases.
I have some experiences that seemed to be answers to questions about theology, so my hypothetical is only hypothetical in its specifics (the 7th heaven, Revelation, etc.). In fact what God seemed to tell me was even more heretical than the hypothetical about Revelation being uninspired.I cannot say as this advances the discussion in any way. A few posts ago, I was reading about a "relationship with God" and the importance of a "direct access" to God. What "direct access" that we should rely upon to tell us the truth of God would that be, I wondered.
So then I was told "Let's say" something about a mythical ascension into the 7th Heaven in which something is revealed to us. Well, that doesn't happen and even if it did, it doesn't provide an answer to all the people who wonder about the reality of God, does it?
And now you're telling me that I ought to "trust my own experiences" when seeking to know if the Bible is true.
That's it?????
No.I have some experiences that seemed to be answers to questions about theology, so my hypothetical is only hypothetical in its specifics (the 7th heaven, Revelation, etc.). In fact what God seemed to tell me was even more heretical than the hypothetical about Revelation being uninspired.
Not everybody gets the same answers from God, and not everybody gets any answers at all from God. That is a problem, but putting the Bible into the role of separating the chaff from the wheat is naive because the Bible itself has differing answers.
Well, you are entitled to your own religious values or beliefs, but what you are describing now is not something that can be applied to everyone else. Surely you know that. Very few Christians believe in anything like that. The importance of my saying that is just that you were talking originally about a question that was applicable to everyone, or so I thought--"how does one know X, Y, and X?"I have some experiences that seemed to be answers to questions about theology, so my hypothetical is only hypothetical in its specifics (the 7th heaven, Revelation, etc.). In fact what God seemed to tell me was even more heretical than the hypothetical about Revelation being uninspired.
Not in the way you have described concerning your own case. But every Christian has access to divine revelation--the Bible. The credibility (or lack of credibility) of the Bible holds the answer to your question.Not everybody gets the same answers from God, and not everybody gets any answers at all from God.
No, it doesn't. There are only different interpretations, just as there are different interpretations for your dream of having been taken up into heaven.That is a problem, but putting the Bible into the role of separating the chaff from the wheat is naive because the Bible itself has differing answers.