• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.
  3. Please note there is a new rule regarding the posting of videos. It reads, "Post a summary of the videos you post . An exception can be made for music videos.". Unless you are simply sharing music, please post a summary, or the gist, of the video you wish to share.

Do you all accept biblical inerrancy/infallibility and why?

Discussion in 'Christianity and World Religion' started by cloudyday2, Dec 6, 2019.

  1. cloudyday2

    cloudyday2 Generic Theist Supporter

    +1,896
    United States
    Agnostic
    Single
    the proverbial "relationship with God", i.e. mystical experience
     
  2. cloudyday2

    cloudyday2 Generic Theist Supporter

    +1,896
    United States
    Agnostic
    Single
    @yeshuaslavejeff , I am talking about post #94. If I replaced "A pagan god(s)" with "The Christian God" in your statement then I would violate CF rules. I wanted to highlight the harshness of your post by asking you to imagine how you would feel if you were the pagan or if your statement criticized the Christian God. The harshness isn't helping you win souls IMO.
     
  3. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

    +22,924
    Anglican
    Married
    But the proverbial "relationship with God" does not mean that we can know all things by holding a conversation with him. "Direct access" is the way you put in in that post.

    The "relationship with God" phrase refers to our standing with God.
     
  4. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

    +10,396
    Anabaptist
    The so-called harshness is just in your thoughts - when you or anyone does disobey God, you or anyone will suffer, sometimes harshly, even perish, unless you or they repent - God is not prejudiced and does not show favor to anyone.

    You can criticize the One True God Yahuweh ALmighty as much as you want.
    It won't change where your destination is.

    Oh, it might bring suffering in this life, perhaps. But eternal death is worse by far.

    Likewise, no pagan god can nor will do anything for you, nor can grant you eternal life.

    So why play with pagan gods? They only bring death and destruction to yourself and those around you, and those who listen to you who turn to pagan gods or are harmed by your deception.
     
  5. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

    +10,396
    Anabaptist
    I did not have any question about any pagan god.
    The question might by , why perish serving any pagan god? Why suffer practicing idolatry or serving demons ?
     
  6. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

    +10,396
    Anabaptist
    False gods destroy souls.
    Here is a good thing though >>>>>
     
  7. Elisha's Bear

    Elisha's Bear Member

    176
    +73
    United States
    Christian
    Private
    By what authority, may I ask? I find the word "fastenings" nowhere in my search for definitions of Strong's H1099. Nor in relation to Job 26:7 itself.
     
  8. cloudyday2

    cloudyday2 Generic Theist Supporter

    +1,896
    United States
    Agnostic
    Single
    Let's say God takes me to the 7th heaven and shows me that the Book of Revelation is uninspired, ludicrous, and never should have been included in the Biblical canon. Then I would be faced with a choice between trusting the inspiration of the council that defined the Biblical canon or trusting my own inspiration. To be honest, if the experience seemed real and profound to me then I might give more weight to my own inspiration - at least I know what I experienced and I don't know what an ancient council of bishops experienced when they declared Revelation canonical.
     
  9. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

    +10,396
    Anabaptist
    Their experience and your experience is not a standard at all.

    If you experienced something like you just posted, it is clearly of demonic (and God Permitted) deception.

    Why seek deception, instead of the truth ?!
     
  10. Elisha's Bear

    Elisha's Bear Member

    176
    +73
    United States
    Christian
    Private
    As we see how God deals with us and try to understand why He has led us the way He has, we can know that He is a God of love, mercy, and power. We can understand only as much of why He does some things as is good for us to know. We must trust His loving hands to lead us the rest of the way. His heart of love will do what is best for us.

    The Word of God, like the One who gave it, can never be fully understood. We cannot fully explain the sad story of how sin came into the world. We are not able to understand how the Son of God became a man. Nor can we understand just how we are made righteous and how we will be raised from the dead. But we must not doubt God’s Word because we cannot understand some things it tells us about.

    In the natural world are many things we cannot explain. The wisest people cannot fully understand the smallest forms of life. Everywhere are wonders we do not understand. Should we then be surprised to find things in the spiritual world that we cannot explain? Our minds are too weak and narrow to reach these higher thoughts. God has given us enough reasons to believe that the Scriptures are inspired.

    Parts of the Scriptures are hard to understand. Because of these parts, some people say they do not believe the Bible. But the hard parts really show us that the Bible is from God. We cannot understand everything about God in the Bible because our minds are not as great as His. His greatness and goodness cannot be fully understood by human minds. The very grandness and mystery of the Bible should help us to have faith in it as the Word of God.

    The Bible brings us truth that satisfies the needs and desires of every heart. This truth is given in such a simple and interesting way that it surprises and pleases the best minds. Yet it makes clear even to humble and uneducated people how they can be saved. These simply stated truths also touch on subjects that are too hard for us to understand. We accept them only because God spoke them.

    We know that we do not fully understand all the truths of the Bible. Our minds cannot take hold of all the things understood by God’s mind. Our weak, human minds cannot always understand the way God works. Some people doubt God’s Word because the meanings are not always clear to them. This is a real danger even to people who say they believe the Bible.

    It is right to study closely the teachings of the Bible. It is good to search “even the hidden depths of God’s purposes” (1 Corinthians 2:10) as given in the Scriptures. “There are some things that the Lord our God has kept secret; but he has revealed his Law.” (Deuteronomy 29:29). Satan tries to get us to use our minds in the wrong way. When some people study the Bible, they feel they must be able to explain everything it says. They are proud, and they feel unhappy when they come to parts that are not clear to them. It humbles them to say that they do not understand all of God’s Word. They are not willing to wait until God is ready to show the truth to them. They feel that their own understanding should be enough. When they cannot understand some parts, they say the Scriptures are not from God.

    Many ideas that some people say come from the Bible are not found in it. These ideas are very different from the Bible teachings. They cause people to doubt God’s Word. But we cannot blame the Bible. We should blame the wrong use of the Bible. We do not fully understand God and His works. If we could, there would be no more truth to discover. There would be no further growth of the heart and mind. God would no longer be first and above all. Let us thank God that He is greater than we are. God is infinite. “All the hidden treasures of God’s wisdom and knowledge” are in Him (Colossians 2:3). In heaven people will be forever searching to learn how great is His goodness. They will be ever learning how wise and how powerful He is.

    Even in this life God wants to be ever opening the truth of His Word to His people. There is only one way we can receive these truths. We can understand God’s Word only through the light that comes from His Spirit. “Only God’s Spirit knows all about God.” “The Spirit searches everything, even the hidden depths of God’s purposes.” (1 Corinthians 2:11, 10). The Saviour’s promise to His followers was “When ... the Spirit comes, who reveals the truth about God, he will lead you into all the truth.... He will take what I say and tell it to you.” (John 16:13, 14). God wants us to use our reasoning powers. The study of the Bible will strengthen these powers and lift our minds as no other study can. Yet we must be careful not to make reason a god, for it can be as weak as the human mind or body.

    Satan guides the thoughts when people do not ask for God’s help as they study the Bible. They may make mistakes in understanding the Scriptures no matter how well educated they may be. It is not safe to trust what they say the Word means unless they are obeying God. Some people read the Bible to try to find mistakes. They have not given their hearts to God, so they think they find many reasons for not believing. Doubt makes it hard for them to understand truths that are plain and simple. In most cases the real cause of unbelief is the love of sin. When we are proud and sin-loving, we do not welcome the teachings of God’s Word. If we are not willing to obey God’s Word, we are ready to doubt.

    We must have a sincere desire to know the truth and a willingness to obey it. If we study the Bible with a willing heart, we will find good reasons to believe that it is God’s Word. We will understand the truths that will bring us salvation. Christ said, “Whoever is willing to do what God wants will know whether what I teach comes from God or whether I speak on my own authority.” (John 7:17). We should not question and find fault with the truths we do not understand. We must walk in the light that we already have, and then we will receive greater light. By the grace of Christ we must do every duty that has been made plain to us. Then we will be able to understand and do those things we now doubt and question.

    The apostle Paul says of God, “He rescued us from the power of darkness and brought us safe into the kingdom of his dear Son.” (Colossians 1:13). When we have accepted salvation, we are able to say “that God is truthful.” (John 3:33). We can say, “I needed help, and I found it in Jesus. Everything I needed was given me. The hunger of my heart was satisfied. The Bible shows Jesus Christ to me. Do you ask why I believe in Jesus? Because He is to me a divine Saviour. Why do I believe the Bible? Because I have found it to be the voice of God speaking to my heart.” We can know in our hearts that the Bible is true and that Christ is the Son of God. We can know that we are not following false and foolish ideas.

    Peter tells his brothers to “continue to grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.” (2 Peter 3:18). When the people of God are growing in grace, they will understand His Word better and better. By faith we may look to life in heaven and take hold of God’s promise that we will forever grow in understanding. In heaven our powers will unite with God’s powers, and we will be brought in touch with Him from whom comes the light of truth. We can be thankful that in heaven all the things that we do not understand now will be explained and made clear. We may now see only broken plans and failure, but then we shall see God’s perfect and beautiful plan for our lives. “What we see now is like a dim image in a mirror; then we shall see face-to-face. What I know now is only partial; then it will be complete—as complete as God’s knowledge of me.” (1 Corinthians 13:12).

    While God has given ample evidence for faith, He will never remove all excuse for unbelief. All who look for hooks to hang their doubts upon will find them. And those who refuse to accept and obey God's word until every objection has been removed, and there is no longer an opportunity for doubt, will never come to the light....
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2019
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  11. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

    +22,924
    Anglican
    Married
    Except that that doesn't do anything for anyone else, so it is not the way to find out if God is real, which is the true god, if the Bible is credible, or any of that.

    And that scenario is completely fictional, so it isn't a real answer anyway. :)
     
  12. d taylor

    d taylor Well-Known Member

    +557
    United States
    Protestant
    Single
    .____________________________________.
    From Terra Firma: David Wardlaw Scott

    The Hebrew word teleh means to hang, suspend, or support by actual contact.
    Examples: Genesis 40:19, Psalms 137:2,
    Ezekiel 15:3


    belimeh wrongly translated "nothing" is the crucial word. translators appear to have derived it from the noun blee, signifying consumption or desolation, and the pronoun meh, who which what, but the meaning "nothing" drawn from these words, seems to be very far fetched. Hebrew is a very ancient language, to all probability the most ancient of any, and this being the only place in the Bible where the word belimeh occurs, it is, of course, difficult to test the meaning. I have myself, however, not the slightest doubt, that Parkhurst is right in deriving the noun belimeh from the verb belem, to confine, restrain, or hold in, so used in
    Psalm 32:9 Do not be like the horse or like the mule, Which have no understanding, Which must be harnessed(belem) with bit and bridle, Else they will not come near you.
    and that belimeh simply means "fastenings," or "supports," and this interpretation exactly agrees with what God asked Job a little farther on in Job 38:6 To what were its foundations fastened?
    Or who laid its cornerstone, But while I consider Parkhurst to be correct as to the rendering of the word belimeh, I believe him to be wrong as to the strange application of it which he makes.
    .____________________________________.

    The Bible several times states the earth is set on foundations. Never is it stated in the Bible except in the wrongly translated Job 26:7 the earth hangs on nothing. That idea has been imported into the Bible from science.
     
  13. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

    +10,396
    Anabaptist
    IF you are seeking the truth, the time is long passed to know and to realize that Yahuweh does not contradict Himself like that.
     
  14. Elisha's Bear

    Elisha's Bear Member

    176
    +73
    United States
    Christian
    Private
    Theological hobby horsemanship. Utter, thread-derailing rubbishtishtishtish.

    So this Scott fellow has a definite leg up on Strong, Thayer, and all the rest on ancient Hebrew, because the earth sits flat on a foundation that reaches down to, well... ?

    So all of the aircraft pilots and seamen must be in on the "globe lie," as well as the governments, which can't get along--I guess that's a ruse, too (so much for the "wars" part of the "wars and rumors of wars")--because they'd have to get along for the "globe lie" to go over, right? So, 70+ million dead was a hoax in WWII or... Well, how would that work?

    So (I'm trying to sort this out) the last 500 years of history have been a "work" just like a pro wrestling "kayfabe" angle.

    This is (legit) not goading, by the way. This is my brain melting, I think. Yeah, that's what it is.

    Either that or I can just relax because all of the "foreign policy" baloney on TV is just a tool to put over the round earth apostasy.

    Oh, I just can't do this. It strains credulity beyond my mental capacity. It's just a throbbing mind-ache. Oh, it hurts.
     
  15. cloudyday2

    cloudyday2 Generic Theist Supporter

    +1,896
    United States
    Agnostic
    Single
    I think you missed the point. I'm not advocating that @Albion should trust @cloudyday2 rather than trusting the Bible. I'm advocating that @Albion should trust @Albion rather than trusting the Bible. Of course the Bible is not completely worthless. Presumably the Bible records the mystical experiences and insights of others, but those experiences are not as trustworthy as your own experiences in most cases.
     
  16. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

    +10,396
    Anabaptist
  17. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

    +22,924
    Anglican
    Married
    I cannot say as this advances the discussion in any way. A few posts ago, I was reading about a "relationship with God" and the importance of a "direct access" to God. What "direct access" that we should rely upon to tell us the truth of God would that be, I wondered.

    So then I was told "Let's say" something about a mythical ascension into the 7th Heaven in which something is revealed to us. Well, that doesn't happen and even if it did, it doesn't provide an answer to all the people who wonder about the reality of God, does it?

    And now you're telling me that I ought to "trust my own experiences" when seeking to know if the Bible is true.

    That's it????? :mmh:
     
  18. cloudyday2

    cloudyday2 Generic Theist Supporter

    +1,896
    United States
    Agnostic
    Single
    I have some experiences that seemed to be answers to questions about theology, so my hypothetical is only hypothetical in its specifics (the 7th heaven, Revelation, etc.). In fact what God seemed to tell me was even more heretical than the hypothetical about Revelation being uninspired.

    Not everybody gets the same answers from God, and not everybody gets any answers at all from God. That is a problem, but putting the Bible into the role of separating the chaff from the wheat is naive because the Bible itself has differing answers. I agree it would be nice if the Bible was the gold standard of orthodoxy that the fundamentalists claim it to be, but unfortunately it is what it is.
     
  19. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

    +10,396
    Anabaptist
    No.
    The answers that you get from evil spirits are on purpose evil, or from evil people, and God permits it to test you, or because He has given you up to believe your own delusions.
     
  20. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

    +22,924
    Anglican
    Married
    Well, you are entitled to your own religious values or beliefs, but what you are describing now is not something that can be applied to everyone else. Surely you know that. Very few Christians believe in anything like that. The importance of my saying that is just that you were talking originally about a question that was applicable to everyone, or so I thought--"how does one know X, Y, and X?"

    Not in the way you have described concerning your own case. But every Christian has access to divine revelation--the Bible. The credibility (or lack of credibility) of the Bible holds the answer to your question.

    No, it doesn't. There are only different interpretations, just as there are different interpretations for your dream of having been taken up into heaven.
     
Loading...