Do you all accept biblical inerrancy/infallibility and why?

[cloudyday2]

The scriptures are God's conversation with those of us who He has not deigned to give direct revelation to. If He speaks to you directly so that the Bible is superfluous then deem yourself either blessed, lucky or in need of counselling. If I do not accept the Bible as the one infallible source of my faith then I might just as well make up a faith of my own to follow. I consider the Bible to be infallible in telling me what God wants me to know about the relationship between God and His people. It is not a mere book of factual information about the world but a biographical study of a relationship.

Why would anybody believe without a direct revelation of some kind? I don't mean God talking to you atop Mt. Sinai but something that seems special to you.

 

[Albion]

Maybe not:

Those are all possibilities. Very theoretical, but possible, just like solipsism. But if so, then the only answer to the question(s) you started us off with would be "No one can say."

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Why would anybody believe without a direct revelation of some kind? I don't mean God talking to you atop Mt. Sinai but something that seems special to you.

A direct revelation is what the Father gives.

 

[dlamberth]

Even if that were true, what makes anyone think that each person who seeks the answer to the questions that we are discussing on this thread will have them answered, in identical fashion, across the board?

Because every human being has a different image of God, there's no way an identical answer can be gathered across the board. That's one of the reasons there are over 20000 different Christian denominations world wide. It's also why different Christian beliefs have evolved and changed over time.

The idea is, I think, to have an answer that is absolute, applicable to every person at all times.

Whose idea is that?

The only universal answer that I'm able to think of is called "Love".

 

[Albion]

Why would anybody believe without a direct revelation of some kind? I don't mean God talking to you atop Mt. Sinai but something that seems special to you.

That's the Bible!

The only thing outstanding is whether or not the Bible is what it claims to be, whether the contents are credible. But if so...then that is exactly what you are referring to, no? Unless, that is, you are insisting that each one of us really is expected to have a personal, miraculous, visit from the Creator--which as I said before is categorically unrealistic.

 

[Albion]

Because every human being has a different image of God, there's no way an identical answer can be gathered across the board.

Then the question here remains unanswered and there is no way to know the truth about God or even if he exists. All that would remain would be that each person is free to believe whatever he wants to believe.

That, however, doesn't answer the question of the thread. It's more like throwing up our hands when hearing it. Is that the reply we give if someone asks how to know God or if there is a God--"believe whatever you want?"

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Because every human being has a different image of God,

No.
As written, as has been, as is, as will be,
Ekklesia with the attitude (mind) of Christ,
all those whose mind also is set on Christ,
is kept (strongly guarded) in perfect peace.
We live in union with the son and with the Father.
Without imagery, without idolatry, without following feelings or emotions that deceive ,
but with obedience by God's Grace, with a pure heart granted by Him, in simplicity of truth, cleansed by His Word, as written of the permanent disciples in the Gospel.

 

[cloudyday2]

That's the Bible!

The only thing outstanding is whether or not the Bible is what it claims to be, whether the contents are credible. But if so...then that is exactly what you are referring to, no? Unless, that is, you are insisting that each one of us really is expected to have a personal, miraculous, visit from the Creator--which as I said before is categorically unrealistic.

I don't think that is unrealistic. If a person needs to hear from God directly shouldn't God be eager to provide? Look at the story of doubting Thomas. Jesus didn't refuse the evidence to somebody who needed that evidence.

As an example, my grandfather claimed to have felt something special when he was baptized. If a person doesn't experience something for themselves then hopefully they might know somebody they trust who had some experience. It isn't an unreasonable expectation. It is certainly unreasonable to expect people to believe in Christianity without the tiniest scrap of evidence in favor and mountains of evidence opposed. I'm not saying that feeling something special is certain proof of God, but it is better than feeling nothing at all.

BTW, the Bible is probably part of that mountain of evidence opposing belief in Christianity. An unbiased person reading the Bible cannot help coming away highly skeptical of Christianity. Numerous Christians resolved to read the Bible cover-to-cover only to lose their faith as a result.

 

[dlamberth]

Then the question here remains unanswered and there is no way to know the truth about God or even if he exists. All that would remain would be that each person is free to believe whatever he wants to believe.

That, however, doesn't answer the question of the thread. It's more like throwing up our hands when hearing it. Is that the reply we give if someone asks how to know God or if there is a God--"believe whatever you want?"

With the question posed in the op, which Bible?
There's the Catholic Bible, the Protestant Bible, the Greek Orthodox Bible, the Ethiopian Orthodox Bible, are there more?

The Truth about God has always been and always be a personal venture. The one central Truth throu out it all is Love.

When asked about God, my reply is to open your heart to Love, Compassion and Service to those in need. Regardless of our beliefs, that's how we make God a reality in our lives. Other than that, believes are just that "belief".

 

[Albion]

I don't think that is unrealistic. If a person needs to hear from God directly shouldn't God be eager to provide?

I don't really know how to reply to questions and propositions in which one of us who hasn't accepted any particular God as real...nevertheless speculates all over the place about what God must want to do.

Look at the story of doubting Thomas. Jesus didn't refuse the evidence to somebody who needed that evidence.

I am sure that we all would agree that if we were to come face-to-face with God and have the opportunity to speak with him about this, that we would probably come away convinced. But again, I took your questioning to be about all of us, about how anyone might ap0proach this issue.

BTW, the Bible is probably part of that mountain of evidence opposing belief in Christianity. An unbiased person reading the Bible cannot help coming away highly skeptical of Christianity. Numerous Christians resolved to read the Bible cover-to-cover only to lose their faith.

And many others came away as believers. Counting noses really doesn't answer your question either.

 

[Albion]

With the question posed in the op, which Bible?
There's the Catholic Bible, the Protestant Bible, the Greek Orthodox Bible, the Ethiopian Orthodox Bible, are there more?

You know, it is common for people to talk as though the different Bible translations are as unlike each other as the Koran is from the New Testament. The fact is that this isn't so.

The differences are few and mostly inconsequential, at least so far as believing Christ to be the Savior or not and what God wants of us is concerned.

 

[coffee4u]

Do you all accept biblical inerrancy/infallibility and why? Shouldn't God be the standard rather than a book?

Yes

The Bible is God's word to us.

2 Timothy 3:16-17
16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

Hebrews 4:12
12 For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

Luke 21:33
33 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

 

[dlamberth]

You know, it is common for people to talk as though the different Bible translations are as unlike each other as the Koran is from the New Testament. The fact is that this isn't so.

The differences are few and mostly inconsequential, at least so far as believing Christ to be the Savior or not and what God wants of us is concerned.

Perhaps, but I'm not understanding how that relates to the question posed in the op? The various Bibles all have different numbers of books in them. If looking at inerrancy of the Bible, I ask: What is being looked at to make that judgment? A person might look at the Ethiopian Orthodox Bible, and because of all of the extra books will see something that's not in the Protestant Bible. I don't have to jump far for that person to claim Ethiopian Bible is wrong.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Numerous Christians resolved to read the Bible cover-to-cover only to lose their faith as a result.

This is basically not true.
People who read the Bible, seeking selfish things, excuses for their sinful lives, or support for their sinful thoughts/ way of life, are not Christian to start with.

 

[Rajni]

This is basically not true.
People who read the Bible, seeking selfish things, excuses for their sinful lives, or support for their sinful thoughts/ way of life, are not Christian to start with.

That's not your call to make.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I did not make the call.

See what Scripture says - it is all in there. Timothy I think especially.

 

[hedrick]

I am proposing that Christianity should be a living religion where each human uses his/her direct access to God to determine if God exists, who he is, what he wants from humans, etc. I am not recommending the use of non-Christian religious texts.

This seems like a moderately weird proposal for someone in your position. Every religion has religious experience that its participants think validates it.

 

[hedrick]

Why would anybody believe without a direct revelation of some kind? I don't mean God talking to you atop Mt. Sinai but something that seems special to you.

The Bible doesn’t suggest this. In the OT God is active in history. He is the God who brought Israel out of Egypt. When he thought things were going in the wrong direction, he spoke through prophets. In the NT he gave us Jesus to show us what he is.

There’s certainly religious experience all over the Bible, but I don’t think there’s any expectation that everyone has it or that it’s normative. The Christian tradition has been skeptical of what’s called “private revelation.”

The evangelical tradition has emphasized a “personal relationship” with Jesus. I'm not so sure there's much Biblical basis for that, but certainly being a Christian does involve imagination and feelings, and focusing on Jesus. You seem to have in mind something like mystical experience, though, and I don't think that necessarily implied.

Why did Christianity grow? Obviously people saw something in it that they liked. But was it that they experienced God, or that the Christian life made sense? I think it was more the latter. If you look at what the Christian life meant in the context of Roman culture at the time it’s easy to see why it was attractive. My impression is that it’s true today as well.

 

[cloudyday2]

This seems like a moderately weird proposal for someone in your position. Every religion has religious experience that its participants think validates it.

Hmmmm. Maybe you can explain what you perceive is my position, because your perception might be wrong. I don't see my proposal as weird in the slightest, so maybe you misunderstand my position or maybe I am so weird that I can't perceive my own weirdness LOL

 

[hedrick]

BTW, the Bible is probably part of that mountain of evidence opposing belief in Christianity. An unbiased person reading the Bible cannot help coming away highly skeptical of Christianity. Numerous Christians resolved to read the Bible cover-to-cover only to lose their faith as a result.

There are definitely examples of this. But generally the people you describe came from a fundamentalist background, and were disillusioned when the Bible turned out not to be what their tradition taught them it was. If you look at it as a human book, showing people responding to God's activity, I don't think you have this issue. Sure, it starts with a pretty barbaric idea of God. But you need to look at the direction in which the prophets moved the religion, and what Jesus did and taught.