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Do masons build?

Discussion in 'Philosophy' started by Godisgood12, Jan 10, 2014.

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  1. circuitrider

    circuitrider United Methodist Supporter

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    Zstar, you need to look up the definition of the term "sect." The Boy Scouts require a belief in God, that doesn't make them a sect either. A "sect" is a group within a religion. Words have meanings so it isn't "call it what I will." I'll call it what it is.

    I'm guesing you mean prerequisite?

    The purpose of Freemasonry is not to join around a certain belief in God. You just have to believe there is God. That is as far as it goes and as far as we ask. The fraternity does not want atheists.

    Freemasons get their religion in their own churches or whatever. That isn't what Freemasonry is for.
     
  2. smaneck

    smaneck Baha'i

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    It sort of depends on who you ask. Catholic opposition to Freemasonry seems largely aimed at the Grand Orient or French Freemasonry which was intimately tied to the Enlightenment and the French Revolution, both of which were explicitly anti-Catholic.
     
  3. circuitrider

    circuitrider United Methodist Supporter

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    The Vatican at least at one time was against freemasonry because we supported things like separation of church and state, public education, and personal freedom, all of the ideals of the United States.

    I find that most Roman Catholics and priests have a much more open view than what may be or once was the official church position. I know a number of Masons who are practicing Roman Catholics.
     
  4. smaneck

    smaneck Baha'i

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    That's true and many of our Founding Fathers were Masons. However, the US was not a Catholic country to begin with so the Freemasons were no threat to them here. In France, however, Freemasonry provided Enlightenment Philosphes an opportunity to get together and share political ideas which would have been otherwise suppressed. The same thing was true in Iran, btw.

    I think it is clearly relic of the past. Baha'is don't join Freemasonry because we avoid all secret societies, but we don't make up conspiracy theories about them, much less think they are demonic.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2014
  5. circuitrider

    circuitrider United Methodist Supporter

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    I agree. Just as a point of information, Freemasonry really isn't a secret society as much as some religious groups refer to it that way.

    A secret society keeps its membership and its existence a secret. However most Masons are quite open about their membership wearing rings, lapel pins, kneck ties etc. with masonic logos. Most Masonic buildings in the US are clearly marked as such.

    We are a private organization yes. A secret order, no.
     
  6. smaneck

    smaneck Baha'i

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    There was a time when some Baha'is were Freemasons. For instance, Ali Kuli Khan, the Iranian Charge d'Affairs to the US was very active in the Freemasons. I expect that Shoghi Effendi asked the Baha'is to withdraw because Freemasons in Iran tended to be very political and we did not want to be seen as anti-government.
     
  7. circuitrider

    circuitrider United Methodist Supporter

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    In the US freemasons avoid politics. It just leads to division. Both politics and religion are forbidden to be discussed in a lodge meeting.
     
  8. smaneck

    smaneck Baha'i

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    I doubt if that were the case back when most of our Founding Fathers were Freemasons.
     
  9. circuitrider

    circuitrider United Methodist Supporter

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    Actually the rule has been in effect for a very long time, pre 1776. But that doesn't mean Masons can't discuss politics outside of lodge. The idea that Masons started the revolution is a bit of mythology that even some Masons enjoy believing. But it really is just that many of the founders happened to be Masons.
     
  10. Zoness

    Zoness 667, neighbor of the beast Supporter

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    I should have been more clear: excommunication for being a mason apparently seized in 1983.
     
  11. Zstar

    Zstar Christian Zoroastrian

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    Cool, names are not so nice sometimes... Interested...
     
  12. Alonso_Castillo

    Alonso_Castillo Newbie

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    Wrong:


    Declaration on Masonic Associations Nov 26, 1983

    CONGREGATION FOR THE DOCTRINE OF THE FAITH


    DECLARATION ON MASONIC ASSOCIATIONS


    It has been asked whether there has been any change in the Church's decision in regard to Masonic associations since the new Code of Canon Law does not mention them expressly, unlike the previous Code.

    This Sacred Congregation is in a position to reply that this circumstance in due to an editorial criterion which was followed also in the case of other associations likewise unmentioned inasmuch as they are contained in wider categories.

    Therefore the Church's negative judgment in regard to Masonic association remains unchanged since their principles have always been considered irreconcilable with the doctrine of the Church and therefore membership in them remains forbidden. The faithful who enrol in Masonic associations are in a state of grave sin and may not receive Holy Communion.

    It is not within the competence of local ecclesiastical authorities to give a judgment on the nature of Masonic associations which would imply a derogation from what has been decided above, and this in line with the Declaration of this Sacred Congregation issued on 17 February 1981 (cf. AAS 73 1981 pp. 240-241; English language edition of L’Osservatore Romano, 9March 1981).

    In an audience granted to the undersigned Cardinal Prefect, the Supreme Pontiff John Paul II approved and ordered the publication of this Declaration which had been decided in an ordinary meeting of this Sacred Congregation.
    Rome, from the Office of the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, 26 November 1983.


    Joseph Card. RATZINGER

    Prefect




    + Fr. Jerome Hamer, O.P.

    Titular Archbishop of Lorium
    Secretary
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2014
  13. Alonso_Castillo

    Alonso_Castillo Newbie

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    Yes somehow from my catholic prospective you have never been part of the body of Christ.
     
  14. awitch

    awitch Well-Known Member

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    From the site rules:
    ● Do not state or imply that another member or group of members who have identified themselves as Christian are not Christian
     
  15. Alonso_Castillo

    Alonso_Castillo Newbie

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    Ok this is the last time I express my conviction. sorry.
     
  16. awitch

    awitch Well-Known Member

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    I didn't report it or anything. I should have specified that the note was intended to be a helpful reminder.

    Personally, I find circuitrider to be quite patient, open, and credible.
     
  17. Zoness

    Zoness 667, neighbor of the beast Supporter

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    I stand corrected. I haven't been Catholic for years, my knowledge is getting a little rusty.
     
  18. smaneck

    smaneck Baha'i

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    Ah, Ratzinger. Don't you love him?

    Let's see what this new Pope does.​
     
  19. Alonso_Castillo

    Alonso_Castillo Newbie

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    He is not going to change a fundamental truth, Masonry is a religión, a false one, so no catholic can join anothe religious movement out of the church unless that one wants to be excomunicated.
     
  20. LoAmmi

    LoAmmi Dispassionate

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    Based upon my dealings with a few, it seems more like a social club at this point with some odd rituals.
     
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