Do masons build?

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smaneck

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Ishraqiyun

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Operative Free masons do the literal architecture work and build things. Early Masons organized as a workers guild with certain trade secrets and such. Speculative Masons aren't required to actually build stuff though. Along with the building secrets they were also thought to have passed on ethical, philosophical, and esoteric teachings as well. That's the speculative side.
 
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Sorry but I just can't say that you are saying truth, I have spoken with freemasons of scotish rite, and when we bring Baphomet theme to the table, they change completly in their faces, as hiding something, the make any effort to say that we outsiders do not understand its meaning, that they are not going to speak of it any further, the truth is, that Masonic is satanic,
 
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circuitrider

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Sorry but I just can't say that you are saying truth, I have spoken with freemasons of scotish rite, and when we bring Baphomet theme to the table, they change completly in their faces, as hiding something, the make any effort to say that we outsiders do not understand its meaning, that they are not going to speak of it any further, the truth is, that Masonic is satanic,

Alonso,

That is always what gets disturbing to me in conversations about Freemasonry with some non-masons. You aren't a Mason. You may have no idea what is in our ritual and you've read some oddball website and now assume that Freemasonry is Satanic? Absolutely not. Did you read the link I provided? The Baphomet thing is one of the oldest hoaxes out there and long disproved.

If Masons look uncomfortable when you start asking questions about the Baphomet hoax it could easily be because it is one of those false accusations that gets brought up by persons with anti-masonic sentiments. It gets old defending the Fraternity from accusations that are generations old, been proven not to be true over and over again, and yet people still come back with them and still believe them. Masons get tired of some people calling us Satanists, etc.

For some reason people like to believe conspiracy theories. I don't know why, but often people would rather believe a wild story about satanism than the simple truth that Freemasonry is just a very old fraternity which teaches moral lessons and promotes charitable and social activities. It isn't run by aliens, it isn't Satanic, it doesn't rule the world, and I don't own a black helicopter or have a magic decoder ring.

You don't know me so of course it is hard for you to gauge truthfulness. But I'm an ordained United Methodist minister. I've been ordained for nearly 25 years. I am the Senior Pastor of a very active UM Church in Iowa. I am a devout Christian with a lot of theological training.

I've also been a Freemason for fourteen years. I am a member of two Craft Lodges in Iowa, I'm a Past Master, I am a certified Masonic Instructor, I'm a member of the York Rite the Scottish Rite along with quite a few other Masonic organizations.

All that it to say is that I know my faith as a Christian, I know what my Church teaches, and I know what Freemasonry teaches. Freemasonry isn't Satanic or incompatible with the Christian faith.

You can choose to believe me. Or you can choose to believe the wild conspiracy theories. That is up to you. But all you'll get from me in this thread is the absolute truth.
 
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smaneck

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Sorry but I just can't say that you are saying truth, I have spoken with freemasons of scotish rite, and when we bring Baphomet theme to the table, they change completly in their faces, as hiding something, the make any effort to say that we outsiders do not understand its meaning, that they are not going to speak of it any further, the truth is, that Masonic is satanic,

My uncle, who was a judge in California was a Freemason and he was anything but Satanic. When I was a small child I served as a Bible-carrier in some Freemason ritual. It was anything but Satanic. Yeah, if you accuse people of Satanism you will definitely shut all conversation down, but that doesn't make your accusations true.
 
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smaneck

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You don't know me so of course it is hard for you to gauge truthfulness. But I'm an ordained United Methodist minister. I've been ordained for nearly 25 years. I am the Senior Pastor of a very active UM Church in Iowa. I am a devout Christian with a lot of theological training.

I've also been a Freemason for fourteen years. I am a member of two Craft Lodges in Iowa, I'm a Past Master, I am a certified Masonic Instructor, I'm a member of the York Rite the Scottish Rite along with quite a few other Masonic organizations.

There is one thing I've always been curious about. Why do Shriners use so much Islamic symbolism?
 
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Zoness

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Sorry but I just can't say that you are saying truth, I have spoken with freemasons of scotish rite, and when we bring Baphomet theme to the table, they change completly in their faces, as hiding something, the make any effort to say that we outsiders do not understand its meaning, that they are not going to speak of it any further, the truth is, that Masonic is satanic,

You must be the expert as a member of the organization-- ...oh wait.
 
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circuitrider

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There is one thing I've always been curious about. Why do Shriners use so much Islamic symbolism?

Basically he themes are more Arabic than Islamic.

The Shrine is a fun organization which was created during a time of the stories of the Arabian Nights was popular. So they created an organization with themes related to fezzes, camels, pyramids, etc. just for the fun of it.

The Shrine is primarily an organization for recreation but they do have some very serious charities for children including the Shrine hospitals.
 
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smaneck

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Basically he themes are more Arabic than Islamic.

The Shrine is a fun organization which was created during a time of the stories of the Arabian Nights was popular. So they created an organization with themes related to fezzes, camels, pyramids, etc. just for the fun of it.

The Shrine is primarily an organization for recreation but they do have some very serious charities for children including the Shrine hospitals.

I was somehow under the impression they were at the very top of the Masonic pyramid. But I'm familiar with their charity work. They provided orthotics for my son when he was a toddler, something insurance would not cover.
 
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circuitrider

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I was somehow under the impression they were at the very top of the Masonic pyramid. But I'm familiar with their charity work. They provided orthotics for my son when he was a toddler, something insurance would not cover.

No, not really. Some old charts used to be drawn that way because you either had to be in Scottish Rite or York Rite at one time to join the Shrine. But the Shrine isn't as popular as it used to be so they dropped the requirements down to just being a member of Blue Lodge.

I'm not a Shriner. It isn't my cup of tea. I'm more into historical research. I know men who have been Grand Master and never joined the Shrine.

there are a lot of side organizations to Freemasonry, so many that no one Mason is likely a member of all of them.
 
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Alonso,

That is always what gets disturbing to me in conversations about Freemasonry with some non-masons. You aren't a Mason. You may have no idea what is in our ritual and you've read some oddball website and now assume that Freemasonry is Satanic? Absolutely not. Did you read the link I provided? The Baphomet thing is one of the oldest hoaxes out there and long disproved.

If Masons look uncomfortable when you start asking questions about the Baphomet hoax it could easily be because it is one of those false accusations that gets brought up by persons with anti-masonic sentiments. It gets old defending the Fraternity from accusations that are generations old, been proven not to be true over and over again, and yet people still come back with them and still believe them. Masons get tired of some people calling us Satanists, etc.

For some reason people like to believe conspiracy theories. I don't know why, but often people would rather believe a wild story about satanism than the simple truth that Freemasonry is just a very old fraternity which teaches moral lessons and promotes charitable and social activities. It isn't run by aliens, it isn't Satanic, it doesn't rule the world, and I don't own a black helicopter or have a magic decoder ring.

You don't know me so of course it is hard for you to gauge truthfulness. But I'm an ordained United Methodist minister. I've been ordained for nearly 25 years. I am the Senior Pastor of a very active UM Church in Iowa. I am a devout Christian with a lot of theological training.

I've also been a Freemason for fourteen years. I am a member of two Craft Lodges in Iowa, I'm a Past Master, I am a certified Masonic Instructor, I'm a member of the York Rite the Scottish Rite along with quite a few other Masonic organizations.

All that it to say is that I know my faith as a Christian, I know what my Church teaches, and I know what Freemasonry teaches. Freemasonry isn't Satanic or incompatible with the Christian faith.

You can choose to believe me. Or you can choose to believe the wild conspiracy theories. That is up to you. But all you'll get from me in this thread is the absolute truth.


Ok tell me What is the meaning of Venus? ¿What is the meaning of The Pentagram? ¿What is the relation of Venus, Satan and pentagram?
 
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Zoness

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I only know that anyone member of any masonic lodge is outside of the body of Christ, the Catholic Church ipso facto. Excomunicated.

According to the sources I've found, that doesn't seem to have been true since 1983.
 
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Ishraqiyun

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I've read that the term Baphomet probably started out as a corruption of the name Mahomet. The Templers were accused of fraternizing with the Muslim "enemy. " Not sure why it eventually became connected with the goat head dude by Eliphas Levi. I didn't think it was originally a Masonic thing though.
 
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Zstar

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So who claims to have a purpose and hides it under a table?

Good question.

If the Masons did, makes sense they would be able to build structures incorporating their beliefs. Like monuments...

If a generation or two passes it would be displayed in brick...

Up to interpretation sure but those in the sect would know...

Sounds like the Magi and Astrological information...
 
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circuitrider

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Ok tell me What is the meaning of Venus? ¿What is the meaning of The Pentagram? ¿What is the relation of Venus, Satan and pentagram?

Alonso those aren't Masonic symbols so I have no idea.
 
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circuitrider

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I only know that anyone member of any masonic lodge is outside of the body of Christ, the Catholic Church ipso facto. Excomunicated.

Well Alonso, United Methodists don't believe that. So I guess it is a good thing I've never been a Roman Catholic. ;)
 
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circuitrider

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Good question.

If the Masons did, makes sense they would be able to build structures incorporating their beliefs. Like monuments...

If a generation or two passes it would be displayed in brick...

Up to interpretation sure but those in the sect would know...

Sounds like the Magi and Astrological information...

You lost me there. BTW, freemasonry isn't a "sect." A sect is a group within a religion with differing religious beliefs. Freemasonry isn't a religion. It is a fraternity. Big difference.
 
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Zstar

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You lost me there. BTW, freemasonry isn't a "sect." A sect is a group within a religion with differing religious beliefs. Freemasonry isn't a religion. It is a fraternity. Big difference.

Where?

If they have beliefs about God, they are a sect who believes about God... call it what you will.

Joining in a certain belief about God... be pre-requisitant or not - why else bother?
 
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