Do masons build?

Status
Not open for further replies.

circuitrider

United Methodist
Supporter
Sep 1, 2013
2,071
391
Iowa
✟102,534.00
Country
United States
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Private
Where?

If they have beliefs about God, they are a sect who believes about God... call it what you will.

Joining in a certain belief about God... be pre-requisitant or not - why else bother?

Zstar, you need to look up the definition of the term "sect." The Boy Scouts require a belief in God, that doesn't make them a sect either. A "sect" is a group within a religion. Words have meanings so it isn't "call it what I will." I'll call it what it is.

I'm guesing you mean prerequisite?

The purpose of Freemasonry is not to join around a certain belief in God. You just have to believe there is God. That is as far as it goes and as far as we ask. The fraternity does not want atheists.

Freemasons get their religion in their own churches or whatever. That isn't what Freemasonry is for.
 
Upvote 0

smaneck

Baha'i
Sep 29, 2010
21,182
2,948
Jackson, MS
✟55,644.00
Faith
Baha'i
Marital Status
Single
According to the sources I've found, that doesn't seem to have been true since 1983.

It sort of depends on who you ask. Catholic opposition to Freemasonry seems largely aimed at the Grand Orient or French Freemasonry which was intimately tied to the Enlightenment and the French Revolution, both of which were explicitly anti-Catholic.
 
Upvote 0

circuitrider

United Methodist
Supporter
Sep 1, 2013
2,071
391
Iowa
✟102,534.00
Country
United States
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Private
It sort of depends on who you ask. Catholic opposition to Freemasonry seems largely aimed at the Grand Orient or French Freemasonry which was intimately tied to the Enlightenment and the French Revolution, both of which were explicitly anti-Catholic.

The Vatican at least at one time was against freemasonry because we supported things like separation of church and state, public education, and personal freedom, all of the ideals of the United States.

I find that most Roman Catholics and priests have a much more open view than what may be or once was the official church position. I know a number of Masons who are practicing Roman Catholics.
 
Upvote 0

smaneck

Baha'i
Sep 29, 2010
21,182
2,948
Jackson, MS
✟55,644.00
Faith
Baha'i
Marital Status
Single
The Vatican at least at one time was against freemasonry because we supported things like separation of church and state, public education, and personal freedom, all of the ideals of the United States.

That's true and many of our Founding Fathers were Masons. However, the US was not a Catholic country to begin with so the Freemasons were no threat to them here. In France, however, Freemasonry provided Enlightenment Philosphes an opportunity to get together and share political ideas which would have been otherwise suppressed. The same thing was true in Iran, btw.

I find that most Roman Catholics and priests have a much more open view than what may be or once was the official church position. I know a number of Masons who are practicing Roman Catholics.

I think it is clearly relic of the past. Baha'is don't join Freemasonry because we avoid all secret societies, but we don't make up conspiracy theories about them, much less think they are demonic.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

circuitrider

United Methodist
Supporter
Sep 1, 2013
2,071
391
Iowa
✟102,534.00
Country
United States
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Private
I think it is clearly relic of the past. Baha'is don't join Freemasonry because we avoid all secret societies, but we don't even conspiracy theories about them, much less think they are demonic.

I agree. Just as a point of information, Freemasonry really isn't a secret society as much as some religious groups refer to it that way.

A secret society keeps its membership and its existence a secret. However most Masons are quite open about their membership wearing rings, lapel pins, kneck ties etc. with masonic logos. Most Masonic buildings in the US are clearly marked as such.

We are a private organization yes. A secret order, no.
 
Upvote 0

smaneck

Baha'i
Sep 29, 2010
21,182
2,948
Jackson, MS
✟55,644.00
Faith
Baha'i
Marital Status
Single
A secret society keeps its membership and its existence a secret. However most Masons are quite open about their membership wearing rings, lapel pins, kneck ties etc. with masonic logos. Most Masonic buildings in the US are clearly marked as such.

There was a time when some Baha'is were Freemasons. For instance, Ali Kuli Khan, the Iranian Charge d'Affairs to the US was very active in the Freemasons. I expect that Shoghi Effendi asked the Baha'is to withdraw because Freemasons in Iran tended to be very political and we did not want to be seen as anti-government.
 
Upvote 0

circuitrider

United Methodist
Supporter
Sep 1, 2013
2,071
391
Iowa
✟102,534.00
Country
United States
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Private
Actually the rule has been in effect for a very long time, pre 1776. But that doesn't mean Masons can't discuss politics outside of lodge. The idea that Masons started the revolution is a bit of mythology that even some Masons enjoy believing. But it really is just that many of the founders happened to be Masons.
 
Upvote 0

Zoness

667, neighbor of the beast
Supporter
Jul 21, 2008
8,384
1,654
Illinois
✟468,399.00
Country
United States
Faith
Pagan
Marital Status
Married
It sort of depends on who you ask. Catholic opposition to Freemasonry seems largely aimed at the Grand Orient or French Freemasonry which was intimately tied to the Enlightenment and the French Revolution, both of which were explicitly anti-Catholic.

I should have been more clear: excommunication for being a mason apparently seized in 1983.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
Dec 14, 2010
2,285
218
46
San Juan del Río
✟26,797.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
According to the sources I've found, that doesn't seem to have been true since 1983.


Wrong:


Declaration on Masonic Associations Nov 26, 1983

CONGREGATION FOR THE DOCTRINE OF THE FAITH


DECLARATION ON MASONIC ASSOCIATIONS


It has been asked whether there has been any change in the Church's decision in regard to Masonic associations since the new Code of Canon Law does not mention them expressly, unlike the previous Code.

This Sacred Congregation is in a position to reply that this circumstance in due to an editorial criterion which was followed also in the case of other associations likewise unmentioned inasmuch as they are contained in wider categories.

Therefore the Church's negative judgment in regard to Masonic association remains unchanged since their principles have always been considered irreconcilable with the doctrine of the Church and therefore membership in them remains forbidden. The faithful who enrol in Masonic associations are in a state of grave sin and may not receive Holy Communion.

It is not within the competence of local ecclesiastical authorities to give a judgment on the nature of Masonic associations which would imply a derogation from what has been decided above, and this in line with the Declaration of this Sacred Congregation issued on 17 February 1981 (cf. AAS 73 1981 pp. 240-241; English language edition of L’Osservatore Romano, 9March 1981).

In an audience granted to the undersigned Cardinal Prefect, the Supreme Pontiff John Paul II approved and ordered the publication of this Declaration which had been decided in an ordinary meeting of this Sacred Congregation.
Rome, from the Office of the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, 26 November 1983.


Joseph Card. RATZINGER

Prefect




+ Fr. Jerome Hamer, O.P.

Titular Archbishop of Lorium
Secretary
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

awitch

Retired from Christian Forums
Mar 31, 2008
8,508
3,134
New Jersey, USA
✟19,230.00
Country
United States
Faith
Pagan
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Democrat
Yes somehow from my catholic prospective you have never been part of the body of Christ.

From the site rules:
● Do not state or imply that another member or group of members who have identified themselves as Christian are not Christian
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

awitch

Retired from Christian Forums
Mar 31, 2008
8,508
3,134
New Jersey, USA
✟19,230.00
Country
United States
Faith
Pagan
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Democrat
Ok this is the last time I express my conviction. sorry.

I didn't report it or anything. I should have specified that the note was intended to be a helpful reminder.

Personally, I find circuitrider to be quite patient, open, and credible.
 
Upvote 0
Dec 14, 2010
2,285
218
46
San Juan del Río
✟26,797.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
Ah, Ratzinger. Don't you love him?

Let's see what this new Pope does.


He is not going to change a fundamental truth, Masonry is a religión, a false one, so no catholic can join anothe religious movement out of the church unless that one wants to be excomunicated.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
Status
Not open for further replies.