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Dispensationalism Refuted

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by JM, Oct 23, 2014.

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  1. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    1 Peter 1
    10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:

    You is the dispersion in its entirety, which as has been shown unquestionably included Gentiles.

    Whether the prophets were or were not aware, the grace of which they prophesied was declared by Peter to "come unto you", Jew and Gentile alike, without distinction.

    And Hosea (Romans 9:24-26) was a prophet who did not "know nothing".

    Your allegations are false.

    Your terminal case of Biological Supersessionitis is clouding your thinking.
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2019
  2. keras

    keras Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

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    This is a serious mis-quote, that I call you out for.

    1 Peter 1:1-3 From Peter, Apostle of Jesus Christ: To the scattered people of God, now living as aliens in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bythnia, chosen in the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the consecrating work of the Holy Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and the sprinkling of His blood.
    Peter then goes on to tell of the hope those people have for their inheritance, a people who have not seen Jesus, yet they love and trust Him.

    I suggest to you jgr, that you cease your campaign against the truth of God having a people whom He chose, who apostasied and were exiled, but for a decreed time and to whom God sent His Son to redeem and offer Salvation to.
    Not all of them will accept Jesus and many non-Israelites will. But plainly, there are a people in the world, who will come back to God, who will be Redeemed, restored and will re-occupy all of the holy Land.

    This incredible Second Exodus of the descendants of the Patriarchs, is well prophesied and must happen in order for the fulfilment of God's Promises to them. Isaiah 11:11-13
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2019
  3. keras

    keras Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

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    We know the disgusting allusion you are making here. A low and rude comment.
    It shows up your ignorance and inability to counter proper understanding of God's Plan.
    Think about it: if God does totally abandon the Israelites, He has failed.
    You think so; why?
     
  4. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    You are fully aware, bro. keras, that God's only covenant people are those who accept and follow His Son in faith and obedience.

    Their physical DNA is irrelevant.

    You are also fully aware that Abraham's physical DNA is found in every person on earth, further confirming its irrelevance as a covenant criterion.

    Or have you lost that awareness?
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2019
  5. keras

    keras Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

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    What I do know and believe, is that all those who become Christian are the Israel of God. From whatever race, nation and language. BUT, there is a mystery of God's, that ties us Christians back to the original chosen people.
    As 1 Peter 1:8 says; it is those people who having not seen Jesus, yet believe and trust in Him. The majority who do become Christian are from the Western nations, who it is provable, had their origins in the 10 tribes of the House of Israel.

    That this premise is rejected by modern experts, merely supports the fact that God does not want His amazing Plan generally known. Matthew 11:25
     
  6. Jerryhuerta

    Jerryhuerta Historicist Supporter

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    You avoided the part that Ephesians 3:4-6 affirms the prophets knew nothing about the gentiles becoming fellow heirs, members of the same body, and partakers of the promise in their Messiah, so they couldn’t have been inquiring about their salvation, period. Your interpretations are anachronistic, both anthropologically and scripturally.

    This was in response to my comment that 1 Peter 1:10-12 could not have been about the prophets inquiring about the gentiles. There is no historical or grammatical support that the prophets would be inquiring about the future time of the salvation of the gentiles, when their principal concern was the salvation of the descendants of Jacob, the elect exiles of the dispersion, promised before they were born in Deuteronomy 30:1-10.
     
  7. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    You've avoided the prophet Hosea in Romans 9:24-26.
     
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  8. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The characteristics that “tie us Christians back to the original chosen people” have never been a mystery, and have never changed from the beginning, irrespective of origins or anything else.

    Faith and obedience, and nothing else.

    I thought you understood that.
     
  9. claninja

    claninja Well-Known Member

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    Just as God forgives all his people through Christ.

    I have

    Paul has Isaiah 11:10 fulfilled during the 1st century, which is in much closer relation to verse 13 than verse 4 is.

    Isaiah 11:10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, and he that shall arise to rule over the Gentiles; in him shall the Gentiles trust, and his rest shall be glorious

    Romans 15:8-9,12 For I tell you that Christ has become a servant of the Jews on behalf of God’s truth, to confirm the promises made to the patriarchs, so that the Gentiles may glorify God for His mercy. As it is written: And once more, Isaiah says: “The root of Jesse will appear, One who will arise to rule over the Gentiles; in Him the Gentiles will put their hope.”

    Fulfilled through Christ, as affirmed by Paul

    Ezekiel 37:19 you are to tell them that this is what the Lord GOD says: ‘I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel associated with him, and I will put them together with the stick of Judah. I will make them into a single stick, and they will become one in My hand.’

    Ephesians 2:15-16 by abolishing in His flesh the law of commandments and decrees. He did this to create in Himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace and reconciling both of them to God in one body through the cross, by which He extinguished their hostility.

    Paul confirms Christ is the "head" of this new man

    Hosea 1:11 Then the people of Judah and of Israel will be gathered together, and they will appoint for themselves one head, and will go up out of the land. For great will be the day of Jezreel.

    Ephesians 1:22 And he put all things under his feet and gave him as head over all things to the church

    Colossians 1:18 And He is the head of the body, the church; He is the beginning and firstborn from among the dead, so that in all things He may have preeminenc

    Where do these witnesses mention the 2nd advent? Or is that your interpretation of what the witnesses "mean".

    Sure, just provide 1 NT scripture that states it is at the 2nd advent when the 2 nations are made one under Christ to support that YOUR interpretation of the OT is correct, and I will concede.

    I have not conceded, I have agreed. please show where I disagreed and then later agreed that Ephraim was redeemed and gathered in Christ to proclaim the great commission, then I will concede you understand the definition of concede.

    By God redeeming gentiles, of whom many of divorced Ephraim had descended, He gathers them into the body of Christ and sows them to proclaim the gospel to the nations.

    This doesn't answer my question. Did the Jews believe that divorced Ephraim (not my people) were considered God's people under the old covenant or no?

    Where in the world did you get this idea from? Where did I say caipahas held that the scattered children of God represented anyone, regardless of race, tribe or nationality? I suggest you re read #456.

    Absolutely agree. But not all the jews came back to live in the land. This is confirmed by Acts and James

    Acts 2:5 Now there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men from every nation under heaven

    James 1:1 James, a servanta of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, To the twelve tribes in the Dispersion:

    regardless, the 10 northern tribes became as gentiles. They were no longer God's people.

    Hosea 1:9 And the Lord said, “Call his name Not My People, for you are not my people, and I am not your God.”

    Correct, as I believe the old covenant, albeit obsolete at the cross, vanished in 70ad at the destruction of the temple. Thus, the children of those under the old covenant (Jews who rejected Christ) were cast out in 70 ad along with the temple and all of its rituals.

    Do you believe the Jews are still persecuting the body of Christ?

    There were 2 houses of Israel (Ephraim and Judah) from the time of Rehoboam until the Assyrian exile. At the Assyrian exile, God divorce them. They were no longer his people, and He was no longer their God. They were as gentiles From that point on. However, Judah remained married to God, thus there was only one house of Israel from that point on.

    The inclusion of the gentiles, which included Ephraim, into the body of Christ with the remnant of Judah fulfills The promise to Ephraim.

    If there was evidence you would have easily provided it, but it appears you can't. And this poor argument reflects that.

    goes both ways I guess.....

    Where did I avoid stating that gentiles being fellow heirs was always mentioned in the OT, it just wasn't understood until the Spirit gave understanding?

    sure Jerry............
     
  10. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git! Supporter

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    When in doubt go to the Greek and commentators proficient in NT Koine Greek........
    Remember, the Jews/Judeans only belong in the land of Judea.......

    http://www.eliyah.com/lexicon.html

    1 Peter 1:1
    Peter, an Apostle of Jesus Christ to chosen/elect<1588> expatriates/pilgrims/strangers/aliens<3927> of dispersion<1290> of Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia
    Greek New Testament - Parallel Greek New Testament by John Hurt
    petroV apostoloV ihsou cristou eklektoiV parepidhmoiV diasporaV pontou galatiaV kappadokiaV asiaV kai biquniaV

    1588. eklektos
    select; by implication, favorite:--chosen, elect.
    ========================
    3927. parepidemos from 3844 and the base of 1927;
    an alien alongside, i.e. a resident foreigner:--pilgrim, stranger.
    3844. para par-ah' a primary preposition; properly, near; i.e
    1927. epidemeo ep-ee-day-meh'-o from a compound of 1909 and 1218; to make oneself at home, i.e. (by extension) to reside (in a foreign country):--(be) dwelling (which were) there, stranger.
    1909. epi ep-ee' a primary preposition; properly, meaning superimposition (of time, place, order, etc.),
    1218. demos day'-mos from 1210; the public (as bound together socially):--people

    Heb 11:13
    These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off were assured of them,[fn] embraced them and confessed that they were strangers<3581> and expatriates/pilgrims<3927> on the earth.
    1Pe 1:1
    Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,
    To the pilgrims<2937> of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
    1Pe 2:11

    Beloved, I beg you as sojourners<3941> and pilgrims<, abstain from fleshly lusts which war against the soul,
    =========================
    1290. diaspora from 1289; dispersion, i.e. (specially and concretely) the (converted) Israelite resident in Gentile countries:--(which are) scattered (abroad).

    Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers
    To the strangers scattered throughout . . .--Literally, to the elect, sojourners of the dispersion of Pontus. The persons for whom the Letter is destined are very clearly specified. In John 7:35 we have "the dispersion of the Greeks," where it clearly means "those of the dispersed Jews who live among the Greeks," so here "the dispersion of Pontus," or "the Pontine dispersion," will mean "those of, the dispersed Jews who live in Pontus." In James 1:1 the same word is used, and, in fact, it seems to have been the recognised name for all Jews who did not live in Palestine. The word rendered by "sojourners" means people who are resident for a time among strangers: it might, for instance, describe English people who have taken houses in Paris without becoming naturalised; and, as it is here in so close a connection with geographical words, it seems forced to interpret it metaphorically (as in 1Peter 2:11). Palestine, not Heaven, is the home tacitly contrasted; Pontus, not earth, is the place of sojourn. This, then, is clear, that the Apostle of the Circumcision is writing to those of the Circumcision. The addition of the words "the blood of Jesus Christ" is the only thing which shows that they are Christian Jews.
    ==============================================
    Pulpit Commentary
    To the strangers scattered; literally, to the elect sojourners of the dispersion of Pontus, etc. "The dispersion" (διασπορά) was the recognized term (comp. James 1:1; John 7:35; 2 Macc. 1:27) for the Jews who were scattered over Gentile countries. The gospel of the circumcision was committed unto Peter (Galatians 2:7); Paul and Barnabas were to go unto the heathen; James, Cephas, and John unto the circumcision (Galatians 2:9). But St. Peter had been taught to call no man common or unclean; he did not forget that God had made choice that the Gentiles by his mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe (Acts 15:7); he can scarcely have intended to maintain in this Epistle that exclusiveness into which he once relapsed, and for which he was rebuked by St. Paul (Galatians 2:11-14).
    He certainly uses the word here rendered "strangers" (παρεπιδήμοις) metaphorically in 1 Peter 2:11 (comp. Hebrews 11:13);'and we cannot but think that, by "the sojourners of the dispersion," he means, not merely the Jewish Christians of Asia Minor, but all Christian people dispersed among the heathen. We shall see, as we proceed in the study of the Epistle, that the writer contemplates Gentile as well as Jewish readers. Those readers were sojourners for a brief time on earth (perhaps the preposition παρά marks the passing character of their sojourn). "Here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come;" they were dispersed here and there among the unbelievers, but they were one body in Christ. Compare Bengel's brief comment, "Advents in terra, in coelo, electis."
    =====================
    Meyer's NT Commentary
    Peter designates his readers by the words: ἐκλεκτοῖς παρεπίδημοις διασπορᾶς Πόντου κ.τ.λ.] he calls the Christians to whom he writes—for that his epistle is addressed to Christians cannot be doubted—“elect strangers;” and withal, those who belong to the διασπορά throughout Pontus, etc. ἐκλεκτοί the Christians are named, inasmuch as God had chosen them to be His own, in order that they might be made partakers of the κληρονομία (1 Peter 1:4) reserved for them in heaven; cf. chap. 1 Peter 2:9 : ὑμεῖς γένος ἐκλεκτόν.

    παρεπίδημος is he who dwells in a land of which he is not a native (where his home is not); in the LXX. it is given as the rendering of תּוֹשָׁב, Genesis 23:4; Psalm 39:12 (in other passages תּוֹשָׁב is translated by πάροικος; cf. Exodus 12:45; Leviticus 22:10; Leviticus 25:23; Leviticus 25:47, etc.); in the Apocrypha παρεπίδημος does not occur; in the N. T., besides in this passage, it is to be found in chap. 1 Peter 2:11; Hebrews 9:13.
    =========================
    Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges
    to the strangers scattered …] Literally, taking the words in their Greek order, to the elect sojourners of the dispersion. The last word occurs in the New Testament in John 7:35 and James 1:1, and in the Apocrypha in 2Ma 1:27. It was used as a collective term for the whole aggregate of Jews who, since the Assyrian and Babylonian captivities, had been scattered in Asia and elsewhere. It follows from this that the Apostle, true to his character, as sent to the circumcision (Galatians 2:7), addresses himself mainly, if not exclusively, to the Jewish Christians of the regions which he names, but the term would naturally include also the proselytes to Judaism, and so accounts for some of the phrases in the Epistle which seem to imply that some of its readers had had a Gentile origin. The term “sojourners” is translated “pilgrims” in chap. 1 Peter 2:11 and Hebrews 11:13. Its exact meaning is that of “dwellers in a strange land.”
    =======================
    Bengel's Gnomen

    —Ἐκλεκτοῖς, elect) in heaven; elect out of the whole people, out of mankind. Comp. this and 1 Peter 1:5, with Matthew 24:24.—παρεπιδήμοις, strangers) on the earth, [with reference to their heavenly country.—V. g.]—διασπορᾶς Πόντου, of the dispersion of Pontus) He addresses the dispersed Jews, Jam 1:1; although he afterwards addresses believers of the Gentiles, who are mixed with them, ch. 1 Peter 2:10, note, 1 Peter 4:3. He mentions five provinces in the order in which they presented themselves to him, writing from the East: ch. 1 Peter 5:13. Cappadocia, Pontus, and Asia, is the order in which they are mentioned, Acts 2:9. The Epistles of Peter were formerly placed before those of John, James, and Jude: and from this circumstance all of them appear to have been called “Catholic” (General) Epistles, because that title is especially applicable to the first. It is not agreed upon whether Peter first sent this Epistle into Pontus, or to Jerusalem, where the Jews flocked together.
     
  11. keras

    keras Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

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    Sure, Faith and Obedience are the criteria for being recognized as a true Israelite of God. Many who have the required ancestry will fail because of lack of faith. Ezekiel 20:34-38
    As for that ancestry, I do agree that every person today has some of Abrahams genes. But we must narrow it down considerably to Jacobs sons, who seem to have kept to themselves as prophesied, in the Western nations. This is changing now, more and more, with cross-culturalism being promoted and marriage between races becoming normalized.
    So there are degrees of purity of descent, and you cannot deny that God plainly say He does know who His Israelite people are. Amos 9:8-9
     
  12. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Please cite the Scripture that informs us that the degree of purity of descent is a covenant criterion, and gives us the arithmetic value of that degree.

    Amos 9
    8 Behold, the eyes of the Lord God are upon the sinful kingdom, and I will destroy it from off the face of the earth; saving that I will not utterly destroy the house of Jacob, saith the Lord.
    9 For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth.
    10 All the sinners of my people shall die by the sword, which say, The evil shall not overtake nor prevent us.

    Why do you ignore the associated declarations?

    It is clear that sinners will die, and only the faithful and obedient remnant will not be destroyed (v. 8).

    "Purity of descent" is unknown, unseen, and unsaid.

    God certainly does know who His Israelite people are. They are the faithful and obedient.

    As He also knows who His Gentile people are. They too are the faithful and obedient.

    Spiritual DNA, and nothing else, determines who His people are.
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2019
  13. keras

    keras Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

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    1 Kings 8:33-53 is quite enlightening.
    .You, God have singled the Israelites out from all the peoples of the earth.....
    They were divorced from God and exiled from the Land, but many prophesies prove their eventual re-marriage to God and their return to the Land. We see them there in Revelation 7:4-14 & 14:1-7; Restored and Redeemed.
    It will happen, God will keep his promises to the Patriarchs.
     
  14. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    You haven't answered my request:
    Please cite the Scripture that informs us that the degree of purity of descent is a covenant criterion, and gives us the arithmetic value of that degree.

    God's promises to the Patriarchs are fulfilled in Christ.

    Acts 13
    32 And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that the promise which was made unto the fathers,
    33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

    2 Corinthians 1
    20 For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.

    You are fully aware (unless you've discarded your awareness) that Revelation 7 & 14 speak of the faithful and obedient of Israel.

    The Church and the 144,000

    Revelation 7:3-4 describe the 144,000 as “sealed.” That description is reserved in the NT for believers in Christ – His Body and Bride – the Church:

    2 Corinthians 1:21-22
    Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and anointed us is God, who also sealed us and gave us the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge.

    Ephesians 1:13
    In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

    Ephesians 4:30
    Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.


    The Revelation 7 passage is therefore conveying the insight that the OT Israelitish faithful saints of God are included under the NT banner of the Church. This is further confirmed by the meanings of the names of the listed tribes and substitutes (Levi and Joseph replacing Dan and Ephraim), describing spiritual qualities and experiences of those who comprise the Church:
    Similarly, the meanings of the names of Dan and Ephraim convey the reasons for their exclusion:
    Satan in the guise of the serpent was responsible for the fall of mankind in Genesis 3, and for the bruising of Messiah's heel in Scripture's first recorded prophecy of Genesis 3:15. It was the same serpent Satan whose head Messiah bruised at Calvary.
    • Ephraim means “fruitful in the land of mine affliction” (Genesis 41:52)
    The reference to “the land of mine affliction” in Ephraim's name's meaning is to that of Egypt, which in Scripture is both a literal and spiritual reality and symbol of bondage. But the Church, God's Chosen People, do not inhabit a land of spiritual affliction and bondage. Rather, they inhabit the Heavenly Jerusalem on Mount Sion (Hebrews 12:22,23), located in the Heavenly Country that God has prepared for the faithful (Hebrews 11:16).

    Of additional significance is the order in which the names are presented, differing from the usual presentation by order of birth. In particular, Judah appears first, in recognition of its role as the tribal progenitor of Christ, the Lion of Judah.

    While rebellion and apostasy were repetitive afflictions of the OT Israelites, there were still thousands who remained faithful (1 Kings 19:18). Their number is depicted as 12, a scriptural value representing faithfulness; multiplied by 12, representing the faithful from each of the twelve tribes; multiplied by 1,000 representing the indeterminate but large number (Psalms 50:10; Psalms 91:7; Revelation 5:11) of the total faithful in Israel; thus, 144,000.

    Revelation 14 continues the descriptions further reflecting the qualities and experiences of the redeemed – the Church. Absent here is any mention of tribal, ethnic, or other distinctions, thus conveying the reality of the inclusivity and oneness of the NT Church which now embraces both Israelite and Gentile. Its number can also be depicted as 12, representing faithfulness; multipled by 12 representing the 12 faithful apostles, who with the prophets comprise the foundation of the NT church, with Christ as the Chief Cornerstone (Ephesians 2:20); multiplied by 1,000 representing the indeterminate but large number of the total faithful in the NT Church; thus, also 144,000.

    The NT Church's inclusivity and oneness are declared in the following:

    Galatians 3:28
    There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

    Ephesians 2:14
    For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall…

    Colossians 3:11
    Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.


    The 144,00 are described as celibate, meaning that as the Bride of Christ, they are not defiled by adultery with the world (James 4:4). They sing a new song of deliverance and victory. They follow Christ wherever He goes. Their residence is heavenly Jerusalem on Mount Zion. (Hebrews 12:22)

    No doubt about it…the Church is written all over the 144,000.
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2019
  15. keras

    keras Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

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    I agree. No need to repost lengthy dissertations.
    The faithful Christians are also the vast multitude of Revelation 7:9 and the 144,000 are selected by Jesus, out of them. Revelation 14:1-7
    Only God knows that. But what we know is there is a mystery that is hidden from our knowledge, that God will restore His chosen people. And lets be clear; they are NOT the Jewish people of today; only a Messianic remnant of them will survive.
    Correct, therefore it is the followers of Christ who inherit those Promises, Romans 8:16-18, Ephesians 3:6, + who are mainly actual descendants of Jacob. Is that too hard to comprehend?
     
  16. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Scripture?

    Scripture?

    God's restoration conditions and attributes of His Chosen People have never been a mystery.

    Faith and obedience and nothing else.

    The existence and attributes of the remnant were confirmed by God in Elijah's day (1 Kings 19:18), reconfirmed by Isaiah in his day (Isaiah 10:22), and reconfirmed by Paul in his day (Romans 9:27; 11:1-5).

    Faith and obedience and nothing else.
     
  17. keras

    keras Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

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    There are literally hundred+ prophesies that say the Lord will Restore, Redeem, Reinstate, Recompense, Recover and Reestablish His Israelite people. Then He will forgive their sins. Jeremiah 31:34b
    These prophesies do not just refer to anyone; they are specific to a people, a people whom God chose to be His witnesses, Isaiah 43:10 and His Light to the nations, Isaiah 49:3-8. Those people failed in their task and were punished by exile; which was to be for a set period. Ezekiel 4:4-6
    THEN, they will gather and go to live again in their own Land.

    This story is all throughout the Bible, even the initial gathering of Judah in apostasy is a fulfilment of prophecy and is a miracle in itself.
    Do you really think that God is not capable of miraculously bringing together those people who are actual Israelites according to whatever standard He decides.
    But the most amazing thing is, that now, it is we Christians who ARE God's witnesses, John 15:27, Acts 1:8, and His Light to the nations, Matthew 5:14-16, Acts 13:47 WE are the descendants of Jacob physically and spiritually.
     
  18. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    God will abandon faith and obedience as His ageless covenant requirements, and substitute something else?

    Scripture for that?

    In particular, New Covenant Scripture for that?
     
  19. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The concluding messages of the New Testament unequivocally reconfirm that faith and obedience will never be abandoned as God's sole and exclusive covenant conditions:

    Revelation 2:19
    I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.

    Revelation 13:10
    He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

    Revelation 14:12
    Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

    Revelation 17:14
    These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

    1 Peter 1:2
    Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

    1 Peter 1:14
    As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:

    1 Peter 1:22
    Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:

    1 Peter 4:17
    For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
     
  20. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

    +2,514
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    jgr, I think the term should be God's only "saved" people are those who accept and follow His Son in faith and obedience.

    When people start saying "covenant" interchangeably with "saved", that's where the confusion starts.
     
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