Dispensationalism Refuted

[JM]

A good resource for those battling against the false view of Dispensationalism.
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Dispensationalism

A Return to Biblical Theology

or

Pseudo Christian Cult

"What is indisputably, absolutely, and uncompromisingly essential to the Christian religion is its doctrine of salvation... If Dispensationalism has actually departed from the only way of salvation which the Christian religion teaches, then we must say it has departed from Christianity. No matter how many other important truths it proclaims, it cannot be called Christian if it empties Christianity of its essential message. We define a cult as a religion which claims to be Christian while emptying Christianity of that which is essential to it. If Dispensationalism does this, then Dispensationalism is a cult and not a branch of the Christian church. It is as serious as that. It is impossible to exaggerate the gravity of the situation."

By John H. Gerstner Wrongly Dividing the Word of Truth: A Critique of Dispensationalism

What is Dispensationalism?

Dispensationalism is a form of premillennialism originating among the Plymouth Brethren in the early 1830's. The father of dispensationalism, John Nelson Darby, educated as a lawyer and ordained Anglican priest, was one of the chief founders of the Plymouth Brethren movement, which arose in reaction against the perceived empty formalism of the Church of England. To the Brethren the true "invisible" church was to come out of the apostate "visible" Church, rejecting such forms as priesthood and sacraments.

Dispensational theology centers upon the concept of God's dealings with mankind being divided into (usually) seven distinct economies or "dispensations", in which man is tested as to his obedience to the will of God as revealed under each dispensation.

Dispensationalists see God as pursuing two distinct purposes throughout history, one related to an earthly goal and an earthly people (the Jews), the other to heavenly goals and a heavenly people (the church).Dispensationalists believe that in the Old Testament God promised the Jewish people an earthly kingdom ruled by Messiah ben David, and that when Christ came He offered this prophesied kingdom to the Jews. When the Jews of the time rejected Christ and the earthly kingdom, the promise was postponed, and the "mystery form" of the kingdom - the church - was established.

The church, according to dispensational doctrine, was unforeseen in the Old Testament and constitutes a "parenthesis" in God's plan for Israel. In the future, the distinction between Jew and Gentile will be reestablished and will continue throughout all eternity. The "parenthesis", or church age, will end at the rapture when Christ comes invisibly to take all believers (excepting OT saints) to heaven to celebrate the "marriage feast of the Lamb" with Christ for a period of seven years.God's program for the Jews then resumes with the tribulation, Antichrist, bowls of wrath, 144,000 Jews preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom, and Armageddon.

Then, the Second (third, if you count the preTrib rapture) Coming, the instantaneous conversion of the entire nation of Israel, the resurrection of the Tribulation and Old Testament saints, and the "sheep and goats" judgment. The "goats" will be cast into hell, the "sheep" and the believing Jews will enter the millennium in natural human bodies, marrying, reproducing, and dying. The "mystery church" and the resurrected Tribulation and Old Testament saints will live in the heavenly Jerusalem suspended above the earthly city. This millennium will be a time of great peace and prosperity, with Christ ruling on David's throne. After 1,000 yrs. Satan will be released from the chain with which he had been bound at the beginning of the millennium and many of the children born to the "sheep" and the Israelites will follow him in revolt against Christ.

The King will again destroy His enemies, followed by another resurrection of the righteous, another resurrection of the unrighteous, a final judgment, and at last the New Heavens and the New Earth.

Although premillennial thought has been recorded in the early church, dispensational theology and its pursuant eschatology are new, as even the father of the system admitted -"I think we ought to have something more of direct testimony as to the lord's coming, and its bearing also on the state of the church: ordinarily, it would not be well to have it so clear, as it frightens people. We must pursue it steadily; it works like leaven, and its fruit is by no means seen yet; I do not mean leaven as ill, but the thoughts are new, and people's minds work on them, and all the old habits are against their feelings - all the gain of situation, and every worldly motive; we must not be surprised at its effect being slow on the mass, the ordinary instruments of acting upon others having been trained in most opposite habits." - LETTERS OF J.N.D., vol.1 pg.25-26

The new doctrine was widely accepted in America, due to popular prophetic meetings such as the Niagara Bible Conferences. C.I. Scofield promulgated dispensational thought in his Scofield Reference Bible. Dispensational Bible institutes by the hundreds have sprung up across the continent - notably Moody Bible Institute and Dallas Theological Seminary.

Media evangelists such as Jerry Fallwell, Dave Hunt, Howard Conder, Charles Capps, Pat Robertson, Jack Van Impe, and Hal Lindsey popularize dispensational eschatology today. Most likely you have heard these doctrines taught over Christian radio programs, and yes, from your own church's pulpit, though probably no one defined the theological system as dispensationalism nor the origination as Darby circa 1832.Dispensationalists view the teaching as a return to Biblical theology, after nearly 1,800 years of darkness.

But, since the day Darby began to preach the doctrine, Godly men have opposed.Many books have been published exposing the flaws in the intricate system. Most hack away at the branches, arguing peripheral issues. We intend to lay the axe to the root of the tree."My brother, I am a constant reader of my Bible, and I soon found that what I was taught to believe (by Darby's doctrine) did not always agree with what my Bible said. I came to see that I must either part company with John Darby, or my precious Bible, and I chose to cling to my Bible and part from Mr. Darby." - George Müeller, a contemporary and one time supporter of Darby quoted by Robert Cameron in his book SCRIPTURAL TRUTH ABOUT THE LORD'S RETURN, pp.146-7

http://dispensationalismrefuted.blogspot.ca/2006/05/heresy-of-dispensationalism.html

 

[Old Timer]

"What is indisputably, absolutely, and uncompromisingly essential to the Christian religion is its doctrine of salvation... If Dispensationalism has actually departed from the only way of salvation which the Christian religion teaches, then we must say it has departed from Christianity.

Here's JMs true colors here...

Dispensationalists are not Christians..

You're still a brother to me JM

 

[Old Timer]

Let's put on our thinking caps.. that's always fun to do..

NOW.. let's think for a minute who might want anyone to believe that Dispensational teaching is not Christian...

Anything...

 

[JM]

Here's JMs true colors here...

Dispensationalists are not Christians..

You're still a brother to me JM

Ah, selective reading...again. My true colours would be revealed here, "If Dispensationalism has actually departed from the only way of salvation which the Christian religion teaches..." then that Dispey is a false teacher. There is not two ways of salvaiton which is what that point is trying to get accross.

jm

 

[Old Timer]

Ah, selective reading...again. My true colours would be revealed here, "If Dispensationalism has actually departed from the only way of salvation which the Christian religion teaches..." then that Dispey is a false teacher. There is not two ways of salvaiton which is what that point is trying to get accross.

jm

Now all you need to do is to find that straw man a dispy who believes that there are more than one way of salvation..

That will be fun too..

 

[JM]

Now all you need to do is to find that straw man a dispy who believes that there are more than one way of salvation..

That will be fun too..

Larkin did. John Hagee does.

It's not like I can't find Dispey's who claim Israel must be saved by Law keeping.

 

[Danoh]

I read Gerstner's book years ago - strawman arguments and made up research from cover to cover. I wrote him and never heard back. Others wrote him. Same response despite his claims in the book of being open to hear it's readers out.

That some of you can't see the dishonesty in the writings of such individuals, regardless of camp, just shows how blind your preferred view makes you.

What Bible study boils down to is objective principles actually sought out and then zealously applied as well as guarded against slipping from.

Not "the scholars" all of who study one another's books way more so than actually invetsing great time in Scripture. There books make this obvious, book after book, decade after decade..

Fact is, wrestle with The Book, and you "get" The Book...

 

[Old Timer]

Larkin did. John Hagee does.

It's not like I can't find Dispey's who claim Israel must be saved by Law keeping.

Really.. are these direct quotes or simply your interpretation of their commentary?

Or is it true because you say so?

 

[JM]

Danoh,

Not one of us can be objective, we are sinners by nature and by choice. Paul said in Romans 7 that he had a Law in his members, that even when he did good evil was present with him. That's why it is so maddening when someone comes along and pretends that only their view has validity in scripture. From the first post I made in this forum I was jumped all over with rude and insulting comments by Old Timer and one of his buddies who wrote derogatory and dismissively about something I commented on. The comment wasn't even about Amil.

I appreciate the spirit in which you discuss these matters.

Yours in the Lord,

jm
PS: Gerstner's book was aimed at a fringe form of Dispensationalism still found in pockets of the US. It is difficult to engage Dispensationalism because it doesn't have a standard, no confession or creed. It's tends to be subjective to the reader and the headlines.

 

[Old Timer]

See, now JM is really having fun..

Glad you're having a good time Brother!

 

[Danoh]

Danoh,

Not one of us can be objective, we are sinners by nature and by choice. Paul said in Romans 7 that he had a Law in his members, that even when he did good evil was present with him. That's why it is so maddening when someone comes along and pretends that only their view has validity in scripture. From the first post I made in this forum I was jumped all over with rude and insulting comments by Old Timer and one of his buddies who wrote derogatory and dismissively about something I commented on. The comment wasn't even about Amil.

I appreciate the spirit in which you discuss these matters.

Yours in the Lord,

jm
PS: Gerstner's book was aimed at a fringe form of Dispensationalism still found in pockets of the US. It is difficult to engage Dispensationalism because it doesn't have a standard, no confession or creed. It's tends to be subjective to the reader and the headlines.

True that, as to "a fringe" the book was aimed at. Still, my "argumentation" as to the book stands.

As for the difficulty with being objective, I respectfully disagree. I just proved it is possible - on your "Sad but true..." thread.

Its very simple, really - you put away the books, grab a Bible, open it anywhere, begin reading, and then, at some point you begin attempting to work backwards from the writer's words to what operating principles of communicating intended sense the said writer appears to be relying on...

 

[ebedmelech]

I read Gerstner's book years ago - strawman arguments and made up research from cover to cover. I wrote him and never heard back. Others wrote him. Same response despite his claims in the book of being open to hear it's readers out.

That some of you can't see the dishonesty in the writings of such individuals, regardless of camp, just shows how blind your preferred view makes you.

What Bible study boils down to is objective principles actually sought out and then zealously applied as well as guarded against slipping from.

Not "the scholars" all of who study one another's books way more so than actually invetsing great time in Scripture. There books make this obvious, book after book, decade after decade..

Fact is, wrestle with The Book, and you "get" The Book...

Dishonesty? Where is the dishonesty Danoh? Lay it out.

 

[Old Timer]

Dishonesty? Where is the dishonesty Danoh? Lay it out.

Didn't you know...

We're all dishonest..

Well, there are some with honesty and integrity I'm sure..

 

[Danoh]

Dishonesty? Where is the dishonesty Danoh? Lay it out.

I have yet to read or hear an argument against ANY form of Dispensationalism that does NOT distort Dispensationalism. You would know that if you are truly objective.

Note I did not say you would agree with Dispensationslism, as this is another matter. I'm talking about the distortions those who oppose it resort to.

Here, read the book yourself... hah, BABS'll love me for this link, lol

http://www.sounddoctrine.net/stanford/Wrongly Dividing.pdf

 

[Biblewriter]

Sadly, there are a few fringe individuals who distort dispensational teaching to mean that there is more than one way of salvation. But these are the exception, not the rule. And not even one recognized leader of dispensational thought would do anything other than condemn such doctrine as seriously false.

Sadly, JM, your understanding of dispensationalism is seriously acking. If you really want to fight it, I suggest you begin by actually reading what we teach, so you really know what we say, rather that what others accuse us of saying.

 

[Interplanner]

Danoh,
you constantly warn against reading books, you know.

I have read your explanation and all you are doing is saying that 2P2P was what God was going to do in Acts to begin with but later did not, but will again in the future. Meaning: 2P2P is the structure of the Bible, even if you concede some of Acts. But it is not the structure.

BW does not deal in specifics because it would fall apart. He has been asked to briefly explain what Rom 9:24, Eph 2B-3A and Acts 13's sermon's main point many many times over the past year and does not.

He says he needs many pages to do so, and yet when it comes to defending D'ism he can do it in a line. It would indeed take many "pages" to dichotomize Paul in to physical vs spiritual reality, this life vs next life, Israel vs church, the soul vs the land of Israel, because that is not what Paul does.

 

[Danoh]

Danoh,
you constantly warn against reading books, you know.

I have read your explanation and all you are doing is saying that 2P2P was what God was going to do in Acts to begin with but later did not, but will again in the future. Meaning: 2P2P is the structure of the Bible, even if you concede some of Acts. But it is not the structure.

BW does not deal in specifics because it would fall apart. He has been asked to briefly explain what Rom 9:24, Eph 2B-3A and Acts 13's sermon's main point many many times over the past year and does not.

He says he needs many pages to do so, and yet when it comes to defending D'ism he can do it in a line. It would indeed take many "pages" to dichotomize Paul in to physical vs spiritual reality, this life vs next life, Israel vs church, the soul vs the land of Israel, because that is not what Paul does.

Man are you slow - that Gerstner book in pdf form I posted the link to is - it is the OVERLY BIASED and dishonest representation of its topic that is the type of book I warn against.

You know, you constantly harass BW about his having to post on Acts 13, etc., when you very well know it will not matter what anyone posts on it that does not match your distorted, confused, surface level misreading of those passages.

You should just give up on the guy, as you are not going to get through with your books learned misinformation.

2P2P, yeah, okay, that is what my Mid-Acts spouts. You crack me up with how stuck you remain in your notions of Mid-Acts, a perspective you actually believe comes down to feeding you sound bytes.

How typical of the Seminary trained mind - where what is studied is waaaaay over priced books by "pofessors" both out to outdo one another, as well as make good buck at it.

Academia, nah!

At least my money went to a secular University; at least I knew what I was paying for.

That is what so sad about you and yours - you actually believe you learned "about" the Bible.

Someone should outlaw that farce...

 

[JM]

Sadly, there are a few fringe individuals who distort dispensational teaching to mean that there is more than one way of salvation. But these are the exception, not the rule. And not even one recognized leader of dispensational thought would do anything other than condemn such doctrine as seriously false.

Sadly, JM, your understanding of dispensationalism is seriously acking. If you really want to fight it, I suggest you begin by actually reading what we teach, so you really know what we say, rather that what others accuse us of saying.

Sadly, sadly...my shelves were filled with Dispey books. I spent too much money and time learning Dispensationalism to take that comment seriously.

Yours in the Lord,

jm

 

[Time4Truth]

Not one of us can be objective.

Remember you said that.


Let me ask you a question.


How do we know if a prophecy is fulfilled or not?

 

[JM]

Remember you said that.


Let me ask you a question.


How do we know if a prophecy is fulfilled or not?

I'll remember I wrote that...as long as the context is kept in mind.

What I wrote, "Not one of us can be objective..." AND "That's why it is so maddening when someone comes along and pretends that only their view has validity in scripture."

To clarify:

I was speaking to the pompous, self-righteous individuals who claim any view that differs is completely crazy and outside of scripture and/or those who differ get their ideas from outside of scripture.

It's insulting to make such a claim.

Now, on to your question, "How do we know if a prophecy is fulfilled or not?"

Revelation, like the rest of scripture, is history prefigured in signs and symbols, just as the "sign of Jonah" was a type or symbol veiling the future historical events of Christ's crucifixion and resurrection. We learn from scripture to look for historical signs of how prophecy is fulfilled.

Yours in the Lord,

jm