Did all the laws end at the cross- Part 2

[Akita Suggagaki]

Exodus 34:28 And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.

And those tablets of the 10 Commandments that were actually in the Ark of the Old Covenant included

Exodus 34:
18 The feast of unleavened bread shalt thou keep. Seven days thou shalt eat unleavened bread, as I commanded thee, at the time appointed in the month Abib; for in the month Abib thou camest out from Egypt.

22 And thou shalt observe the feast of weeks, [even] of the first-fruits of wheat harvest, and the feast of ingathering at the year's end.

But some here do not want to hear that. Would rather ignore them as if they do not exist among the 10.

But Christians have promoted this confusion demanding that the ten from Deuteronomy be put in public places, as if they actually would obeyed them. And as if a New Covenant had not been established in the blood of Christ.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

You are fixating about the 10 commandments being written by the hand of God, as though a commandment from his mouth carries less weight? Deu 6:4&5 is quoted by Jesus as the most important commandment, and it isn’t written on the stone tables.

Nice to meet you, not sure if we have conversed before but I appreciate your comments.

The Ten Commandments were both written by the finger of God Exodus 31:18 and spoken by God. Exodus 20:1 Only the Ten Commandments were inside the ark of the covenant placed in the Most Holy of God’s Temple where He dwells under His mercy seat, which is also revealed in Heaven Revelation 11:19 so I think God made a distinction about the Ten Commandments and one wise man in scripture told us:

Ecclesiastes 12:13
Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God and keep His commandments, For this is man’s all.

Also, the 10 commandments written on the stone tables are literally the “tables of the covenant”, meaning the tables of the Old Covenant.

God wrote all His laws in our hearts and minds in the New Covenant Jeremiah 31:34, Hebrews 8:10 and each one of the Ten Commandments are repeated in the New Covenant for every day Christian living. God did not break His covenant, the Israelites did, the New Covenant is based on better promises, the Ten Commandments plays the same role as in the Old Covenant in the NC, the commandments point out sin. Romans 3:20, Romans 7:7 and is sin lawlessness 1 John 3:4 and if we break one of the commandments we break them all James 2:10-12 quoting directly from the Ten.

There isn’t any ambiguity there. Nobody is denying that God wrote on them, but it was literally pre-incarnate Jesus, the creator, who wrote on them. The pre-incarnate Jesus is the God of the Old Covenant. When he died on the cross, keeping the covenant of the tables of stone was no longer the path to salvation, because the giver of the tables of stone, Jesus, died, and that Old Covenant died with him, so Israel and everyone else is free from the Old Covenant tables, written on stone, so that they can now serve the risen Jesus under the New Covenant, where God writes his commandments on the tables of our hearts. Just as when a husband dies, the wife is free to marry another, only in this case, Jesus died, and we marry the risen Jesus Christ under the New Covenant.

I see a lot of opinions here that are not backed by scriptures. There is no scripture stating that the Ten Commandments ended and we are now free to break them. God wrote His laws in the New Covenant, so they certainly did not end and Jesus came to do the will of the Father John 6:38 Jesus magnified the law of God- which means make greater Isaiah 42:21 which is exactly what Jesus did quoting directly from the Ten Matthew 5:17-30 and Jesus tells us Matthew 5:19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. I believe in the promises of Jesus so more people should take heed of the warnings in scripture.

Salvation has never been by keeping the law. If one is not walking with the Spirit the law is not going to mean much. What Jesus wants is a heart transformation. We should obey not to be saved, we obey because we love God and have a changed heart. Obedience is love to God according to the clear Word of God.

God told us this right in the Ten Commandments:

Exodus 20:6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

Jesus repeated:If you love Me, keep My commandments. John 14:14

1 John 5: For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.

Our salvation is by grace through faith. Ephesians 2:8-10 Faith is not passive, when one has faith they are going to want to obey God (good fruit). Faith and obedience go hand in hand and scripture shows us the fruit of a saved person:

Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

God bless

 

[SabbathBlessings]

.

 

[expos4ever]

In heaven and the new earth, the saints will worship the Lord on His holy day from one Sabbath to another in the presence of our Savior for eternity Isaiah 66:23....

Isaiah 66:23 does not support this assertion that "the saints will worship the Lord on His holy day from one Sabbath to another":

And it shall be from new moon to new moon
And from Sabbath to Sabbath,
All mankind will come to bow down before Me,” says the Lord.

This text does not indicate that worship will be on a particular holy day - you added this.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Isaiah 66:23 does not support this assertion that "the saints will worship the Lord on His holy day from one Sabbath to another":

And it shall be from new moon to new moon
And from Sabbath to Sabbath,
All mankind will come to bow down before Me,” says the Lord.

This text does not indicate that worship will be on a particular holy day - you added this.

You quoted the Sabbath right from the scripture- how did I add the Sabbath when you quoted and it says it verbatim?

And from one Sabbath to another,
All flesh (those saved) shall come to worship before Me,” says the Lord. Isaiah 66:23

The Sabbath is defined by God as being on the seventh day

Exodus 20:10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God

Isaiah 58:13 “If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath,
From doing your pleasure on My holy day, And call the Sabbath a delight,
The holy day of the Lord honorable,

This is indisputable.

The Lord loves each of us so much, if we do not enjoy His Sabbath day now, what makes one think they will in heaven and the new earth? Perhaps something to pray about.

God bless.

 

[expos4ever]

There is no scripture stating that the Ten Commandments ended and we are now free to break them.

You have yet to address this challenge:

Let me try this. When Paul wrote these words, what, exactly, was he trying to tell us:

But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.

Please do not bury us with other texts and other arguments, just explain exactly what Paul is saying here about the law (which obviously includes the 10 because of the immediately following reference to the "thou shalt not covet" law.

In fact, please complete this sentence: "In Romans 7:6, Paul is telling us that.................."

 

[expos4ever]

You quoted the Sabbath right from the scripture- how did I add the Sabbath when you quoted and it says it verbatim?

And from one Sabbath to another,
All flesh (those saved) shall come to worship before Me,” says the Lord. Isaiah 66:23
.....
This is indisputable.

What is indisputable is that while the Isaiah 66 text refers to the Sabbath, it does not necessarily say, as you are implying it does, that the saints will worship on the Sabbath or treat it as a special day.

Yes, the text refers to the Sabbath, but it could be just as a marker of time passing. This alternative reading is strengthened by the "from new moon to new moon" reference - obviously there is no veneration of the new moon as a day of worship.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

What is indisputable is that while the Isaiah 66 text refers to the Sabbath, it does not necessarily say, as you are implying it does, that the saints will worship on the Sabbath or treat it as a special day.

Yes, the text refers to the Sabbath, but it could be just as a marker of time passing. This alternative reading is strengthened by the "from new moon to new moon" reference - obviously there is no veneration of the new moon as a day of worship.

The scripture seems to disagree with you. When God defines His Word in scripture, we should not try to override Him . God is in control of His Word, not the other way around. Take care

 

[SabbathBlessings]

You have yet to address this challenge:

Let me try this. When Paul wrote these words, what, exactly, was he trying to tell us:

But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.

Please do not bury us with other texts and other arguments, just explain exactly what Paul is saying here about the law (which obviously includes the 10 because of the immediately following reference to the "thou shalt not covet" law.

In fact, please complete this sentence: "In Romans 7:6, Paul is telling us that.................."

Already address.

How does this verse match what Jesus says from His own mouth?

Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’


Or Paul’s own mouth:

What matters is keeping the commandments of God 1 Cor 7:19

Perhaps you either you misunderstand Paul or either Paul contradicts Himself and Jesus.

I am going with the first option.

Take care.

 

[expos4ever]

The scripture seems to disagree with you. When God defines His Word in scripture, we should not try to override Him . God is in control of His Word, not the other way around. Take care

Where, specifically, in this text, are we forced to conclude that we are to worship on, or otherwise venerate, the Sabbath?

And it shall be from new moon to new moon
And from Sabbath to Sabbath,
All mankind will come to bow down before Me,” says the Lord.

 

[expos4ever]

Already address.

If so, please restate your answer. Again, please complete this sentence: "In Romans 7:6, Paul is telling us that.................."

 

[expos4ever]

How does this verse match what Jesus says from His own mouth?

Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

Yet again, you cannot simply assume that to not follow the 10 commandments - a particular set of laws - means someone is lawless in general. I do not follow the law of the nation of Tibet, does this mean I am lawless?

Readers will know that this line of reasoning is incorrect, I suggest you abandon repeating the same demonstrably invalid objection.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Where, specifically, in this text, are we forced to conclude that we are to worship on, or otherwise venerate, the Sabbath?

And it shall be from new moon to new moon
And from Sabbath to Sabbath,
All mankind will come to bow down before Me,” says the Lord.

Which part are you having a heard time with?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Yet again, you cannot simply assume that to not follow the 10 commandments - a particular set of laws - means someone is lawless in general. I do not follow the law of the nation of Tibet, does this mean I am lawless?

Readers will know that this line of reasoning is incorrect, I suggest you abandon repeating the same demonstrably invalid objection.

You claim you are “released” from the law- Jesus says depart from me those who practice lawlessness. Which means without law Matthew 7:21-23 and when asked later Jesus was asked which commandments to keep for eternal life Jesus quotes directly from the Ten Commandments. Matthew 19:17-19. Either there is a great misunderstanding of the meaning of “released from the law’ or there is a contradiction with what Jesus teaches. There are no contradictions in scriptures, just misunderstandings.

This question has been addressed at length so I probably won’t respond further on the same question, but I wish you the best in seeking Truth in His Word. God bless

 

[Leaf473]

A note about words having different meanings in the Bible:

"Saved" usually means delivered from eternal judgment. For example, Acts of the Apostles 2:21.

But in Acts of the Apostles 27:31 it means delivered from shipwreck.

 

[expos4ever]

Which part are you having a heard time with?

Please just answer the question. Again:

Where, specifically, in this text, are we forced to conclude that we are to worship on, or otherwise venerate, the Sabbath?

And it shall be from new moon to new moon
And from Sabbath to Sabbath,
All mankind will come to bow down before Me,” says the Lord.

 

[expos4ever]

You claim you are “released” from the law- Jesus says depart from me those who practice lawlessness.

This has been explained to you many times. And you are, once more misrepresenting me. Please stop.

Paul says we are released from the law - the Law of Moses. He never endorses lawlessness in general.

...and when asked later Jesus was asked which commandments to keep for eternal life Jesus quotes directly from the Ten Commandments

We all know that Jesus tells people to follow the 10! This is not news. As you must surely know, the argument is that Jesus knows that the Law, including the 10, will come to an end at the cross, not before.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Please just answer the question. Again:

Where, specifically, in this text, are we forced to conclude that we are to worship on, or otherwise venerate, the Sabbath?

And it shall be from new moon to new moon
And from Sabbath to Sabbath,
All mankind will come to bow down before Me,” says the Lord.

Again which part are you having a hard time with. Do you think bowing down is not the same as worship?

Perhaps the KJV makes it clearer for you. . .

And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

 

[expos4ever]

Perhaps the KJV makes it clearer for you. . .

And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

As much as you might wish it to be the case, this text does not, repeat does not, endorse veneration of the Sabbath. It simply uses the Sabbath as a marker of the passage time.

If your logic were correct, one could equally well argue that the text is telling us to worship on new moons - it says "from one moon to another" which parallels exactly "from one sabbath to another".

 

[SabbathBlessings]

As much as you might wish it to be the case, this text does not, repeat does not, endorse veneration of the Sabbath. It simply uses the Sabbath as a marker of the passage time.

If your logic were correct, one could equally well argue that the text is telling us to worship on new moons - it says "from one moon to another" which parallels exactly "from one sabbath to another".

You're adding that to the scriptures. We can only go with what is defined in scripture. Please show me anywhere in scripture the Sabbath means just as a mark of the passage of time from scripture. You didn't post anything to support your view and I am pretty familiar with the scriptures, so this appears to be your opinion that is in conflict with the clear Word of God.

God has defined the Sabbath is on the seventh day in this very clear verse that was not only spoken by God, but written by God with His own finger.

Exodus 20:10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God.

I wonder why we will be worshipping the Lord on the Sabbath in Heaven (like we should now). Scripture tells us again in a very easy to understand and clear scripture:

Isaiah 58:13 “If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath,
From doing your pleasure on My holy day,
And call the Sabbath a delight,
The holy day of the Lord honorable,

I truly don't think our Lord and Savior could make it anymore clearer than this. Despite the best efforts of the majority to erase the commandment that God told us to "remember" the Sabbath will live on forever as shown in Isaiah 66:23 as the day of worship. The Sabbath was always God's special day from the very beginning of time. Which is why only the seventh day is holy and blessed by God Genesis 2:1-3 and all other days are working days according to God. Exodus 20:9 Once God blesses something man cannot reverse Numbers 23:20 despite their best efforts, but man does not prevail- God does! We should serve God and obey His commandments, not commandments of man which is what Jesus warned us about. Matthew 15:3-8, Mark 7:6-8. There is no Sunday keeping commandment, but there is for Sabbath keeping both spoken and written by God on His Authority! Exodus 20:8-11 Which is the reason man has gone out of their way to try to discredit the Ten Commandments, all because of one commandment, which is ironic because God said those who keep His Sabbath is a sign between Him and His people. Ezekiel 20:12

The New Moon simply means the beginning of the month. In biblical times they did not have names of the month and the New Moon is how they knew it was the beginning of the month so from month to month (new moon) and from week to week (on the Sabbath) all (those saved) will worship the Lord on the New Earth and in Heaven. Isaiah 66:23 We should always seek to do the will of God. Amen!