Did all the laws end at the cross- Part 2

[Leaf473]

First, if keeping the law is legalism to you...

It isn't, necessarily.

...how is it no big deal to keep the law as legalism is attempting to obey God throughour own power.

Right, don't get into legalism

And why have you been telling me this for the entire time we have been discussing scripture?

Telling you what, exactly? Mostly what I've been doing is asking you questions.

I do say that the entire law is fulfilled in the instruction to love your neighbor as yourself

Bible Gateway passage: Galatians 5:14 - 1599 Geneva Bible

For all the Law is fulfilled in one word, which is this, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.

www.biblegateway.com

It makes no sense to me.

I'm not sure if I'm following you.
Your post so far doesn't really make sense to me, either

Second, why do you take 1 Corinthians 10: 27 so far out of context? The entire context is about eating food offered to idols.



Paul goes on to the end of the chapter speaking of foods offered to idols

Yes, and what kind of food was offered to idols? And if you were eating at the house of an unbeliever, do you have to be concerned about whether the food was offered to idols?

 

[Gary K]

It isn't, necessarily.


Right, don't get into legalism


Telling you what, exactly? Mostly what I've been doing is asking you questions.

I do say that the entire law is fulfilled in the instruction to love your neighbor as yourself

Bible Gateway passage: Galatians 5:14 - 1599 Geneva Bible

For all the Law is fulfilled in one word, which is this, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.

www.biblegateway.com

I'm not sure if I'm following you.
Your post so far doesn't really make sense to me, either


Yes, and what kind of food was offered to idols? And if you were eating at the house of an unbeliever, do you have to be concerned about whether the food was offered to idols?

It doesn't matter as Paul ate only clean meats and his advice was not to eat food offered to idols. The idea of eating unclean meats was not on his horizon, or the Jerusalem council members, as the instructions from the Jerusalem council was only about eating foods offered to idols

Yeah you've been mainly asking me questions but the thought behind them is legalism bad, not literally obeying the 4th commandment good.

 

[Leaf473]

It doesn't matter as Paul ate only clean meats and his advice was not to eat food offered to idols.

It matters a great deal. Weren't we just talking about how blood has to be drained very carefully in order to be removed from meat? I don't think the pagan priests were doing that, or following the instructions in the law of Moses about the handling of meat.

The idea of eating unclean meats was not on his horizon, or the Jerusalem council members, as the instructions from the Jerusalem council was only about eating foods offered to idols

One of the reasons why food sacrificed idols was a question was that it almost certainly wasn't going to be clean imo.

Yeah you've been mainly asking me questions but the thought behind them is legalism bad,

We both agree with that

...not literally obeying the 4th commandment good.

No, I don't think that. A person can obey the letter of the fourth commandment if they wish. I don't think it's required.

 

[Gary K]

It matters a great deal. Weren't we just talking about how blood has to be drained very carefully in order to be removed from meat? I don't think the pagan priests were doing that, or following the instructions in the law of Moses about the handling of meat.


One of the reasons why food sacrificed idols was a question was that it almost certainly wasn't going to be clean imo.


We both agree with that


No, I don't think that. A person can obey the letter of the fourth commandment if they wish. I don't think it's required.

That still doesn't make sense sense from my perspective. Not everything offered as a sacrifice as an animal. The poor had to be able to bring a sacrifice too and to some of them an animal would have been too expensive. Just like the Jewish offering system the poor didn't have to bring a lamb. Sometimes all they could afford was a meal offering and I can't imagine the pagans all being wealthy enough to afford an animal.

 

[Leaf473]

That still doesn't make sense sense from my perspective. Not everything offered as a sacrifice as an animal. The poor had to be able to bring a sacrifice too and to some of them an animal would have been too expensive. Just like the Jewish offering system the poor didn't have to bring a lamb. Sometimes all they could afford was a meal offering and I can't imagine the pagans all being wealthy enough to afford an animal.

Well... Vegetables and grains can become unclean through improper handling.

Bible Gateway passage: Leviticus 11:34 - New American Standard Bible

Any of the food which may be eaten, on which water comes, shall become unclean, and any liquid which may be drunk in every vessel shall become unclean.

www.biblegateway.com

But about the pagan sacrifices, my impression was that wealthy people or the city itself would pay for animals to be sacrificed at the temples. One of the important Greek myths is that Prometheus told their ancestors they could just put the skin and the bones on the altar, the gods couldn't tell the difference. So now the Greeks were free to eat the meat.

The meat that had gone through the sacrifice system was cheaper than that which was just brought by a farmer into the marketplace attempting to make a profit. That's what I heard.

 

[Gary K]

Well... Vegetables and grains can become unclean through improper handling.

Bible Gateway passage: Leviticus 11:34 - New American Standard Bible

Any of the food which may be eaten, on which water comes, shall become unclean, and any liquid which may be drunk in every vessel shall become unclean.

www.biblegateway.com

But about the pagan sacrifices, my impression was that wealthy people or the city itself would pay for animals to be sacrificed at the temples. One of the important Greek myths is that Prometheus told their ancestors they could just put the skin and the bones on the altar, the gods couldn't tell the difference. So now the Greeks were free to eat the meat.

The meat that had gone through the sacrifice system was cheaper than that which was just brought by a farmer into the marketplace attempting to make a profit. That's what I heard.

I sometimes wonder about you and your inability to think. Sorry, it just had to be said. So pagans who worship demons, for that Paul calls them, have enough love in them to pay for the sacrifices of others?

1Co_10:20 But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils.

Is it any wonder that the Jerusalem council forbade the eating of things sacrificed to idols?

 

[Leaf473]

I sometimes wonder about you and your inability to think. Sorry, it just had to be said.

So pagans who worship demons, for that Paul calls them, have enough love in them to pay for the sacrifices of others?

They weren't paying for the sacrifices of others, as I understand it. They were trying to get a blessing from the god. There was meat left over. The temple would then sell that meat.

Is it any wonder that the Jerusalem council forbade the eating of things sacrificed to idols?

Right, it's forbidden in Acts, but then Paul says you can buy whatever in the marketplace. There's a real chance some of that will have been sacrificed to idols. That leads me to believe that the instruction in Acts were for a particular time and place.

Also, you can go to the house of an unbeliever and eat whatever they're having. Again, sold out the back of a temple is a real possibility. But there's no need to ask any questions.

Bible Gateway passage: 1 Corinthians 10:27 - Common English Bible

If an unbeliever invites you to eat with them and you want to go, eat whatever is served, without asking questions because of your conscience.

www.biblegateway.com

 

[Gary K]

They weren't paying for the sacrifices of others, as I understand it. They were trying to get a blessing from the god. There was meat left over. The temple would then sell that meat.


Right, it's forbidden in Acts, but then Paul says you can buy whatever in the marketplace. There's a real chance some of that will have been sacrificed to idols. That leads me to believe that the instruction in Acts were for a particular time and place.

Also, you can go to the house of an unbeliever and eat whatever they're having. Again, sold out the back of a temple is a real possibility. But there's no need to ask any questions.

Bible Gateway passage: 1 Corinthians 10:27 - Common English Bible

If an unbeliever invites you to eat with them and you want to go, eat whatever is served, without asking questions because of your conscience.

www.biblegateway.com

That is not Paul's meaning nor what he said. He's referring to matters of conscience, and how to keep their conscience clean.

 

[Leaf473]

That is not Paul's meaning nor what he said. He's referring to matters of conscience, and how to keep their conscience clean.

He says to eat whatever they're having. I think that's very much his meaning.

 

[Gary K]

He says to eat whatever they're having. I think that's very much his meaning.

Yes. but he speaks to it as a matter of conscience. That one word is very significant.

 

[Leaf473]

Yes. but he speaks to it as a matter of conscience. That one word is very significant.

So... If they're having stew, Paul is saying do ask questions, or don't, in your view?

 

[Gary K]

So... If they're having stew, Paul is saying do ask questions, or don't, in your view?

Paul is saying don't ask.

 

[Leaf473]

Paul is saying don't ask.

Cool! And the meat could have been sacrificed to idols, right?

Bible Gateway passage: 1 Corinthians 10:28-29 - Common English Bible

But if someone says to you, “This meat was sacrificed in a temple,” then don’t eat it for the sake of the one who told you and for the sake of conscience. Now when I say “conscience” I don’t mean yours but the other person’s. Why should my freedom be judged by someone else’s conscience?

www.biblegateway.com

 

[Gary K]

Cool! And the meat could have been sacrificed to idols, right?

Bible Gateway passage: 1 Corinthians 10:28-29 - Common English Bible

But if someone says to you, “This meat was sacrificed in a temple,” then don’t eat it for the sake of the one who told you and for the sake of conscience. Now when I say “conscience” I don’t mean yours but the other person’s. Why should my freedom be judged by someone else’s conscience?

www.biblegateway.com

Well the food anyway. It;s not like all people eat is meat.

 

[Leaf473]

Well the food anyway. It;s not like all people eat is meat.

Apparently the word used to refers to meat.

Strong's Greek: 1494. εἰδωλόθυτον (eidólothutos) -- sacrificed to idols

biblehub.com

But is it important? Is it okay to eat vegetables sacrificed to an idol?

 

[Gary K]

Apparently the word used to refers to meat.

Strong's Greek: 1494. εἰδωλόθυτον (eidólothutos) -- sacrificed to idols

biblehub.com

But is it important? Is it okay to eat vegetables sacrificed to an idol?

Not all those sources agree that it must be meat.

 

[Leaf473]

Not all those sources agree that it must be meat.

Not absolutely, that's true. But it's the common meaning. Is it important? Is it okay to eat vegetables sacrificed to an idol?

 

[Gary K]

Not absolutely, that's true. But it's the common meaning. Is it important? Is it okay to eat vegetables sacrificed to an idol?

Only according to Paul;s instructions.